City Health and Demographics

In a developing city, demographics change constantly as new immigrants arrive. Even if all housing is full, people age, some people die, and babies are born early each January. Since the young and the old don't work, changing demographics can lead to too few or too many workers.

It is possible for a city to reach a demographic steady-state, with the right number of people dying at each age each year (every one replaced with a new birth), so that the number of people at a given age doesn't change. (Trurl, aka lemmus, obtained steady-states in very large Caesar III cities with below average, average, and good city health, as reported in reply #3 of my Timeless Tarraco.)

One problem with old cities is that anyone who reaches 100 (or maybe 101) years old becomes a "ghost". Ghosts take up space in houses, eat, and pay taxes, but they don't work, die, or show up in the total population. Ghosts are more likely to form when demographics are changing, when the population is small, and when city health is better. My new Iunet might form ghosts before it comes close to a demographic steady-state, but I hope that its population will be large enough to eventually stop producing ghosts.

I built test cities in the Sandbox custom mission with below average and average city health, and ran each one for hundreds of years, until the demographics appeared to be near a steady state. In the below average health city, 28.1% of the non-scribal people worked, compared to 28.4% in Trurl's C3 city. In the average health city, 30.4% of the non-scribal people worked, compared to 30.5% in Trurl's C3 city. I suspect that for a given city health, death rates in C3 and Pharaoh are identical (and that Trurl's numbers are more accurate than mine).

(At this point I decided to rebuild Iunet, and to have all houses palatial estates or sturdy huts. See "Why Iunet?", below.)

City health is a function of several things. Eating (people living in shanties or better houses) is important. Physician coverage is important. Mortuary coverage has an effect. I think that eating multiple foods (people living in spacious residences or better houses) has an effect. I wouldn't be surprised if some other condition, such as drinking beer (people living in apartments or better houses) matters.

It appeared to me that city health was not simple. Therefore, I decided to limit my investigation to the conditions I expected in my Iunet. I played around with my Sawu, replacing Ptah's temple complex with Bast's temple complex, getting rid of all of the houses except for the 12 palatial estates, and building lots of sturdy huts. With 2400 people in palatial estates and the rest of the people in sturdy huts getting water supply water and physician coverage but no other health coverage, these were the results:
With Isis's altar, 8280 people (28.99% in estates) had poor city health.
With Isis's altar, 8273-6068 people (29.01%-39.55% in estates) had below average city health.
With Isis's altar, 6061-5158 people (39.60%-46.53% in estates) had average city health.
With no altar, 7958 people (30.16% in estates) had poor city health.
With no altar, 5732-7951 people (30.18%-41.87% in estates) had below average city health.
With no altar, 5725 people (41.92% in estates) had average city health.

I didn't lower the population enough to get good city health.

The transition from below average to average city health with Isis's altar didn't change when everyone had dentist coverage. It also didn't change when there was no food in granaries. It also didn't change when the city had 4 foods (instead of 3).

My new Iunet should have average city health, since Isis's altar will exist and 41.67% of the people will live in estates. Some sturdy huts may get mortuary coverage, but I don't think that that will be enough to improve city health to good.

Why average city health? Good city health would have required more estates (making water imports even more troublesome) and/or a smaller population (making ghosts more likely). I don't see any reason to choose city health worse than average.

Why Iunet?

When considering building a long-term stable city, I wanted it to run unsupervised for many years. Examining the events in Nero Would's "spoiler" Excel maps, I found that most family history missions had recurring invasions, requests, flooded clay pits, or other problems requiring intervention. However, Iunet did not. (I don't consider this a significant use of "future knowledge", since I don't know what events will occur in Iunet--only that they don't go on forever.) Since I was unhappy with my original Iunet, and since Iunet is the first family history mission where palatial estates are possible, I decided to rebuild Iunet using only palatial estates and sturdy huts.

Why not crude huts? Those poor people will live in huts their whole lives, never being given food. The least we can do is give them clean water! Also, disease risk increment is a little lower in sturdy huts (compared to crude huts), so physicians won't have to pass them quite as often. Finally, avoiding crude huts will constrain the design, since any sturdy huts that bazaar traders pass must have insufficient desirability to evolve to meager shanties (but sufficient desirability to be stury huts). It may be easier to not let bazaar traders pass by any huts, so I'll probably avoid upgrading bazaars to prevent bazaar trader teleportation.

Wny 25 palatial estates and 1000 tiles of sturdy huts? Maybe because exact multiples of 1000 people look nice in our decimal system. Getting 12000 people may not be easy--I hope I don't have to squeeze huts into every little nook. Fewer people would make ghosts more likely to form. At average city health steady-state and 7000 people in sturdy huts, there should be over 2100 workers, which is more than I estimate will be needed.

This sounds like an exciting plan so far. I have not been around long enough to read your progress through your previous mission in Pharaoh and have looked forward to the day when you decided to play another city.

I will be waiting with bated breath as I'm sure others will for future posts.

Good luck!

Water Import Orders

To minimize the time that a ship selling imports stays at a dock, a docker should rarely deliver less than a full load of an import (400 of most goods). If each docker only delivers a full load of an import, there are usually only 3 attempted import deliveries. (There can be more than 3 delivery attempts, such as when dockers try to deliver 2 loads of a good that has room for 1 and 1 load of a good that has room for 2 or when space opens up for more of a good just before the last docker returns from an unsuccessful delivery attempt, but that shouldn't happen often.) If a city has an import annual quota of 15(00) or 25(00) that may be reached, the last partial load (completing the quota) may cause a 4th import delivery, but that should happen at most once per year per such good.

A docker will not deliver an import to a storage yard if the storage yard does not have space for a full load. Therefore, to prevent each docker from delivering less than a full load of an import (except when completing a quota), its "Import to maintain" level should be high enough so that a docker could fill the available space in the storage yard. (If only one storage yard could contain that good, then its "Import to maintain" level should be at least the available space in the storage yard.)

For an example of setting "Import to maintain" too low, say that straw is set to "Import to maintain 2600" and a storage yard is set to Accept all straw. A ship that sells only straw docks when the storage yard contains 2200 straw, so 3 dockers carry straw to the storage yard where 400 straw is imported (so the storage yard contains 2600). Just before the last docker returns to the dock, the storage yard cart pusher starts delivering 100 straw to a cattle ranch (leaving 2500 in the storage yard), so 2 dockers carry straw to the storage yard where 100 more is imported. Just before the last docker returns to the dock, the storage yard cart pusher starts delivering 100 straw to another cattle ranch, so 2 dockers carry straw to the storage yard, where more is imported. A waste of time.

Using the same example but setting straw to "Import to maintain 3200", the 3 dockers carry straw to the storage yard where 800 is imported (so the storage yard contains 3000). The 3rd docker would not deliver any straw since there is not room for a full load. Just before the last docker returns to the dock, the storage yard cart pusher starts delivering 100 straw to a cattle ranch (leaving 2900 in the storage yard), but the storage yard still does not have room for a full load, so the ship leaves.

Iunet Trade and Production

I checked my old Iunet to see the eventual production and trade possibilities. (This was my first significant use of "future knowledge" for this mission.) Iunet will eventually be able to produce ships, fish, meat (from imported straw), clay, pottery, beer (from imported barley), linen (from imported flax), jewelry (from imported gems), bricks (from imported straw), granite, limestone, copper, weapons, soldiers, and gold.

Some goods can be traded by both land and sea. Since all roads will be connected (a fun "personal rule"), it will be impossible to export beer only by land. Therefore, beer will not be exported, since an "odd lot" may cause problems exporting by water. Linen will not be exported, to minimize flax imports from Abu. Cheap clay and granite will not be exported, to avoid reducing exports of expensive copper and to avoid enlarging the dock area. Manufactured goods will not be imported. The water trade routes to Byblos and Kerma will not be opened, to minimize dock congestion. That leaves these routes (with the maximum number of ships or caravans on the map and the relevant trade goods with their annual quotas):
Men-nefer (2 ships): sells chickpeas(2500), papyrus(2500); buys bricks(2500).
Abu (2 ships): sells straw(4000), grain(2500), flax(2500), gems(2500); buys pottery(4000).
Dahshur (3 ships): sells straw(4000), barley(2500); buys bricks(2500).
Buhen (3 caravans): sells barley(2500); buys copper(2500).
Selima Oasis (2 caravans): sells ebony(2500), wood(2500); buys pottery(2500), copper(2500).

The numbers below are averages and (unless otherwise noted) are for the stabilized city. Consumption of goods by buildings is at Very Hard difficulty. Each walker from a goods-consuming building will take a "long walk" covering all 25 palatial estates, and will be assumed to take 4 walks/year. One exception: on some of his walks, the senet player may disappear instead of taking a "long walk", so will be assumed to take 8 walks/year. Another exception: teachers from any extra schools built to raise Culture might not cover the estates, but will also be assumed to take 4 walks/year. The main reason for the "long walks" is to reduce linen consumption (by reducing embalmer walk frequency and by allowing a single mortuary to cover all estates) and therefore to reduce flax imports from Abu.

The big market for bricks will be almost ignored, to minimize straw imports partly from Abu. Brickworks could be deleted or turned OFF after the mastaba is built, but I don't like doing that, so 1 brickworks will consume 141 straw/year. Constructing the small mastaba will take around 20 years, but I'm not trying for a fast finish. After the mastaba is built, 565 bricks/year will be exported, some to Men-nefer and some to Dahshur.

With Bast's temple complex, 25 palatial estates will consume 3900 fish/year, 3900 meat/year, and 3900/year total of chickpeas and grain. 2 or 3 fishing wharves in good locations will produce fish. 8 cattle ranches will be built (since 7 would produce barely enough) and will produce 4518 meat/year during development. Eventually, 4041 straw/year (for bricks and meat) will be imported, some from Dahshur and some from Abu.

To minimize grain imports from Abu, as many palatial estates as possible should consume chickpeas. Perhaps 16 palatial estates could be fed 2496 chickpeas/year, but that is too close to the quota for comfort. Therefore, 15 palatial estates will consume 2340 chickpeas/year from Men-nefer. 10 palatial estates will consume 1560 grain/year from Abu.

25 palatial estates will consume 600 linen/year. 1 mortuary will consume 240 linen/year. 2 weavers will consume 840 flax/year from Abu.

25 palatial estates will consume 600 beer/year. 1 senet house will consume 480 beer/year. 2 or 3 breweries will consume 1080 barley/year, some from Dahshur and some from Buhen.

25 palatial estates will consume 1200 luxury goods/year. Gem imports from Abu could be eliminated by turning OFF the jeweler, but I don't like doing that. However, the jeweler will be put a long distance from the luxury goods storage yard. Assuming that the jeweler cart pusher can deliver only 200 jewelry/year, 1 jeweler will consume 200 gems/year from Abu. 1000 ebony/year will be imported from Selima Oasis.

5 schools will probably be built, which I think will be enough for Culture 60. (I may decide to build only 3 schools for Culture 50 or only 1 school for Culture 45.) 1 library and 5 schools will consume 1040 papyrus/year from Men-nefer.

25 palatial estates will consume 600 pottery/year. 7 potters will produce 3953 pottery/year. 6 pits will produce 4518 clay/year (with the capacity for slightly more) for the brickworks and potters. 3353 pottery/year will be exported, some to Abu and some to Selima Oasis. (More pottery could be exported, but doing so might reduce copper sales.)

3 copper mines will produce 2880 copper/year for export, some to Buhen and some to Selima Oasis. 1 or 2 weaponsmiths will produce weapons for infantry.

8 gold mines will produce 9036 gold/year. 1 granite quarry and 1 limestone quarry will produce the "filler" for storage yards distributing straw and papyrus and the burial provisions (16 granite).

Dock Location and Testing

I will build my new Iunet without Cleopatra (so players without Cleopatra can run it), but it should run for thousands of years with Cleopatra. Therefore, I ran my old Iunet with Cleopatra to find the ship exit point and to test the dock in my preferred location. (This was my second significant use of "future knowledge".) The ship entry point is on the E edge toward the SE corner and the ship exit point is on the W edge almost in the NW corner, so with Cleopatra installed ships will go farther to leave the map. This won't have much on effect on Dahshur with 3 ships, but will slow down trade with Abu and Men-nefer with 2 ships each.

The closest dock location to the ship entry point is on the SE land mass, but the area is cramped so some storage yards would be farther from the dock than I like. The best dock location for maximum trade is on the NE land mass (and I would use it if necessary), but between there and the large SW land mass (where the palatial estates will be) is a fairly long ferry crossing (18 water tiles between terminals), which would complicate the design.

I want the dock on the SW land mass, but not in the location near the middle of the map (which is rather far from the ship entry point and rather close to planned palatial estates). My preferred location is on the SW land mass, not the closest location to the ship entry point but 1 tile SW (so ships won't cross the inundated floodplain to get there). Since my preferred location is on the S inlet, the ship entry-to-dock-to-exit distance is 24 tiles longer (compared to some other dock locations) when the floodplain is not inundated and 9 tiles longer when the floodplain is inundated. (As a bonus, ships may be destroyed soon after leaving the dock if they are over the floodplain when the inundation recedes, but that would be rare.) I didn't know whether a dock in my preferred location could handle the traffic, so I ran a test.

In the test, each ship sent out 3 dockers. Each docker from a Men-nefer ship went 6 tiles then returned, and each docker from an Abu or Dahshur ship went 3 tiles then returned. The test lasted 10 years. The order of the ships frequently changed, at least partly because occasionally a ship entering the map "reserved" the dock and made 1 or 2 other ships wait. 6 Dahshur ships visited the dock every year. 4 or 5 Abu ships visited the dock every year, for an average of 4.6 ships/year. 4 or 5 Men-nefer ships visited the dock every year, for an average of 4.2 ships/year.

How accurate are the test results? Exports will have little effect, since the major water export (pottery) will be available at the dock and the minor water export (bricks) will be available 1 tile from the dock (on the way back from delivering imports). More importantly, extra delivery attempts will sometimes slow down trade. However, the test import delivery distances were long--with my current dock area plan, a docker from a Men-nefer ship will go no more than 3 tiles then return, a docker from an Abu ship will go no more than 2 tiles then return, and a docker from a Dahshur ship will usually go 1 tile but never more than 3 tiles then return. If the number of extra delivery attempts is less than 1/4 the number of ships that dock, then I would depend on the test results.

I won't try to estimate the number of extra delivery attempts. I doubt that it will be large, but it might be more than 1/4 of the number of ships that dock. So I'll slightly reduce the test results: Dahshur will average over 5 ships/year, Abu will average around 4 ships/year, and Men-nefer will average close to 4 ships per year (and almost never fewer than 3 ships in a year).

Dahshur will trade with ease. Even in a year with only 4 ships and sales of 1600 barley (compared to part of 1080/year average), it could sell way over its share of straw.

Men-nefer should be OK. Even if there are 2 years with only 3 ships in a 4-year period and if it sells 1600 papyrus in 1 of those years and 1200 papyrus in the other (compared to 1040/year average), it will still sell enough chickpeas.

Abu is a possible problem. If there are only 4 ships/year, if straw is always sold, if 800 straw is sold whenever only straw and grain are sold, and if flax is sold every time that gems are sold, then Abu will average selling only 1400 grain/year (compared to 1560/year average). An unlikely solution is for flax to be sold only 1/5 of the time when gems are sold, but a smaller reduction in flax sales when gems are sold would reduce the chickpea deficit. A more probable solution is for Abu to average 4.4 ships/year. I think that the most likely solution is for 400 less straw to be sold (either by not selling straw or by selling 400 straw when only straw and grain are sold) once every 2.5 years. In fact, if 400 less straw is sold once every 1.25 years, then Abu would sell enough grain even if it averaged only 3.6 ships/year. It is not unreasonable to think that fairly often, a Dahshur ship will sell straw and quickly be followed by an Abu ship that does not sell straw.

So I'll put the dock in my preferred location.

Bemused onlookers should not despair if their own level of in-depth analysis and preparation falls short of this example. This is taking the game to its peaks (as might befit someone who has been playing for many years) and is greatly entertaining, and more than a little awe-inspiring, to a pretender like myself.

Quoted from Brugle:

Exactly 12000 people (3 times the requirement) will live there

Would I have contaminated you with my megalomania?

I played Iunet 3 times in a row. I will not paste here my long description as I know that you do not like much overviews (though you know Iunet, as you said in the OP).

[This message has been edited by Tryhard (edited 08-17-2009 @ 05:59 AM).]

Quoted from Trium3:

This ... is greatly entertaining

Thanks. I think.

Quoted from Tryhard:

Would I have contaminated you with my megalomania?

I appreciate your restraint.

I must have downloaded your Iunet years ago, since I have Cleopatra saved games called Tryhard-Iunet and Tryhard-Iunet-18000pop. I didn't look at them recently, but I did find (and reread) a description of them in reply #6 of swillwater's why do so many think iunet with the bug is virtually impossible? thread. It is impressive, with 35 palatial estates, 18000 people, lots of Bast's and Ra's blessings, and some micromanagement.

My new Iunet has very different goals. It should run for thousands of years without any player interaction at all. It's moderately large population is primarily an attempt to reduce "ghost" production, and only secondarily a way to push non-blessed trade limits. (It may be a struggle having just 12000 people with a majority of them in low-density houses.) Other "personal rules" increase the fun--I'm still adding some during design.

While I haven't designed most of the hut blocks, non-senet entertainment, extra schools (if Culture will be over 45), or some of the defense, I have a tentative design for the rest. Details below are for that design and may change.

Another reply will have more details.

City Center, Gold, and Estates

I think a city looks better with a center that includes the palace, mansion, temple complex, festival square, maybe other "nice" buildings, and some of the best houses. The ideal place for a city center is near the middle of the city, but that may not be possible when the palace is close to gold mines.

In Iunet, there are 2 basic places to put the palace (on watered ground) that would allow full production from gold mines in most of the possible locations: SE of the mines (which I used the first time I built Iunet), and N of the mines. I'll put the palace N of the mines, on the SW side of the city center (which will be near the middle of the largest land mass and not too far from the middle of the city). This also has the advantage of putting the copper mines more to the SE, slightly reducing the distance that caravans go to get to the copper storage yard (which will be close enough to the copper mines to allow full production).

A long and relatively narrow block of 15 chickpea-supplied palatial estates will extend NW of the center (to the W edge of the map and the river near the NW corner), which I will call the NW block. A shorter but still relatively narrow block of 10 grain-supplied palatial estates will extend SE of the center (to the dock area), which I will call the center block. The temple complex will be on the W side of the center, near the town palace and the NW block. The family mansion will be on the SE side of the center, part of the center block. The festival square will be between the palace and mansion.

Festival Square Festivities without Festivals

Even when there are no festivals, I like for people to go through the festival square frequently. The senet player, librarian, teacher (who covers the estates), and embalmer were going to wander around before starting their long walks (to decrease their walk frequency), so they might as well do that on and near the festival square. (The senet player will sometimes wander around and then disappear, but should go on his long walk 1 out of 4 walks.) The dentist and water carrier (who cover the estates) will do the same. A pavilion next to the festival square will look nice, and its juggler, musician, and dancer will also wander around when the venues have shows. A bazaar trader and priests from 3 temples (1 a complex) will not wander around, but will go through the festival square on their long walks. A fireman and architect will wander around, covering a few buildings that aren't otherwise protected. I planned for those festival square walkers in my first city center design.

But I forgot about scribes (who go to real festivals). I reworked the design, so that scribes from 2 of the center block estates would also wander on and near the festival square. And why not off-duty bricklayers? (The nomenklatura sometimes hobnob with "real workers".) It was easy to add a guild to the design.

I had intended to have a separate physician for each estate block. But houses better than modest apartments don't need disease protection, so I decided to cover the estates with a physician on a very long walk. (I'll have to be careful to avoid disease during development.) I reworked the city center design again to allow a physician to wander on and near the festival square before starting his long walk.

The more the merrier! We can afford a few decorative but otherwise useless workers. An herbalist would look nice wandering on and near the festival square, and so might a constable. It was easy to add an apothecary and police station to the design.

What about cart pushers? I had intended to put the jeweler at the farthest (by road) point on the SE land mass (requiring 2 ferry crossings to get to there from the SW land mass), but a 2x2 space (unused before this point) beside the temple complex appears to be better. A cart pusher will go through the festival square to deliver gems to the jeweler (and to return to his storage yard), but the jewleler cart pusher will emerge on a different road tile and go a long distance through the SW desert and the NW block to deliver jewelry to a storage yard in the bazaar supply area.

Let's summarize. Wandering on and near the festival square before leaving on a long walk will be a senet player, librarian, teacher, embalmer, dentist, water carrier, and physician. Passing through a bit of the festival square will be a cart pusher (with gems one way and empty the other), bazaar trader, 3 different priests, and occasionally a citizen (when the jeweler needs better labor access) . Just wandering on and near the festival square will be a juggler, musician, dancer, fireman, architect, constable, herbalist, 2 scribes, 4 bricklayers, and occasionally 1 or 2 citizens (when the police station or guild needs better labor access). A tax collector was not invited to the festivities, and neither was a magistrate since fitting in a courthouse would mean another painful redesign.

Long Walks Servicing Estates

A bazaar supply area, NE of the city center, will include all of the granaries (with all 4 foods), the fishing industry, and storage yards holding pottery, beer, linen, and luxury goods. 14 1x1 sturdy huts (requiring a dedicated physician) will supply labor access to some buildings in the bazaar supply area.

There will be 2 bazaars, each serving an estate block connected to the nearby bazaar supply area. One bazaar trader will walk 66 tiles through the NW block. The other bazaar trader will walk 64 tiles through the center block and the festival square.

Priests will combine the long walks of the bazaar traders, going through the festival square, the center block, the bazaar supply area, and the NW block. The priestess from Bast's temple complex will walk 180 tiles. The priest from Ra's temple will walk 171 tiles. The priest from Seth's temple will walk 167 tiles in the opposite direction.

All other long walks that service the estates will follow the long walk of the priests plus an extension into the SW desert, supplying crucial water (and other niceties) to lots of sturdy huts. These walks may be over twice as long as any other walks. The longer walks shouldn't hurt, since entertainment, education, and health coverages last 11 months with Bast's temple complex. Linen (flax) and (to a lesser extent) beer (barley) consumption will be somewhat lower than planned, but papyrus consumption may not be, since schools that don't send their teachers into the SW desert may take relatively short long walks.

If the city is invaded in the SW desert, some long walkers may be killed even if the invasion is quickly defeated. This won't hurt the estates, since the walkers mentioned above service the estates before heading into the desert. However, if the water carrier going through the SW desert is killed, a lot of sturdy huts could devolve into crude huts.

Preventing Bazaar Upgrades

It was easy to create a design with the NW block bazaar unupgraded. The only effort was in putting a 2nd courthouse far enough distant, since the total desirability effect of a large statue, courthouse, firehouse, granary, temples, estates, and tax collectors was (barely) insufficient to upgrade the bazaar.

However, the center block bazaar was more difficult. The total desirability effect of a mansion, large statue, tax collector, police station, senet house, estates, shrines, firehouses, and granaries was sufficient to upgrade the bazaar. For a while I planned to eliminate the nearby shrines, but I decided to replace the tax collector with a work camp and put the tax collector on the other end of the center block (squeezing it into the main industrial area).

With a work camp in place of the center block tax collector, the work camp and bazaar could be switched, changing the bazaar trader's long walks into "regular" walks, which might be advantageous. But after all my effort to increase traffic in the festival square, I won't stop the bazaar trader from going through it.

Culture

Culture 45 would be easy. With what is already planned, only more entertainment (a total of 4 pavilions, 3 bandstands, and 11 booths) may be needed. But if fewer than 315 tiles of sturdy huts (in the bazaar supply area and the SW desert) are passed by the dentist serving the estates, then another dentist will be needed. I think it would be fun to have Above average dentist (and mortuary) coverage for 12000 people with only 1 dentist (and 1 mortuary).

Culture 50 would require more schools (a total of 3) and more entertainment (a total of 4 pavilions, 7 bandstands, and 7 booths). As with Culture 45, 1 dentist might or might not be enough.

Culture 60 would require more schools (I think a total of 5, but maybe 6), more entertainment (a total of 6 pavilions, 5 bandstands, and 13 booths) and more dentists. With Very Good dentist coverage, it would probably take only 1 or 2 more dentists to have Perfect coverage. Also, 5 schools will probably be enough to give everyone school coverage. If I decide to have Culture 60, I will try to have everyone passed by a dentist and a teacher.

There is no reason to stop at Culture 55. Just 6 more booths would raise Culture from 55 to 60.

In any case, there are likely to be entertainment "parks". The local entertainment available to a given hut resident will be up to chance (or a bribe to the official who assigns people to houses).

I prefer Culture 60. However, I might choose Culture 50 or 45 (and a cleaner design) if space is so tight that the extra schools, pavilions, bandstands, and entertainment "schools" make a big difference.

Entertainment

I may give all huts entertainment coverage--jugglers would be enough. This would be especially appealing if everyone is covered by a school, since the city would implement the major ways that ruling classes control people (then and now): indoctrination of the young and distractions for the rest. (I realize that religion typically helps with both, and I might put some shrines in low-class neighborhoods, but I plan to have no temples other than those servicing the estates.)

All roads will be connected, which complicates giving juggler, musician, and dancer coverage to the estates. One way to guarantee that coverage is to put entertainer "schools" on the SW desert end of the walk through the estates and put all venues on the other end (along with the pavilion next to the festival square). I could use this method, but I plan to modify it.

The modification depends on the assumption (which I trust) that if a venue has close to 2 months of shows, and if there is another venue that does not have a show, then the "school" will not send a new entertainer to the venue with close to 2 months of shows. With that assumption, there can be 1 pavilion on the SW desert side of the walk through the estates, as long as for each type of venue, occasionally (every 10 months should be sufficient) one of them has no show. I don't think it will be hard to have too few entertainment "schools" to maintain constant shows at all venues of a given type (while still having shows at every venue part of the time).

If I knew more about the algorithm used to determine which venue is sent a new entertainer from a "school", I would probably be comfortable having more venues on the SW desert side of the walk through the estates. I might investigate this, but probably won't--it sounds like a lot of boring work.

If Culture is 60, then there would be 9.8 city-wide entertainment "points" with Cleopatra. (There would be 12.25 city-wide entertainment "points" without Cleopatra.) Replacing a booth with a bandstand would raise city-wide entertainment to 10.04 "points" with Cleopatra. (Adding 2 more booths would do the same, and that might be easier, but building the extra bandstand in place of a booth would raise music coverage to Good.) With 10 city-wide entertainment "points", the estates would not need juggler coverage (although many would get it), which would allow booths and juggler schools to be placed anywhere. If I choose to get Culture 60, I'll probably do this.

Mastaba

The small mastaba fits neatly in between the 2 sets of mines, in the SW desert but close to the city center.

1 bricklayer guild and 1 work camp should be enough to build the mastaba.

Defense

There will be an infantry fort on each of the 4 land masses. There may be a 5th fort, either another infantry fort on the large SW land mass or an archer fort somewhere. There may be a 6th fort, an archer fort somewhere. All soldiers will be academy-trained.

There will be 6 warship wharves and some transport wharves somewhere.

I think that there will be towers guarding both ends of the river. Near the SE end, I'll probably put a few towers on each side of the river (on both the SE and NE land masses). Near the NW end, I'll probably put towers on only the non-floodplain side of the river (on the SW land mass).

Brugle,

May your splendid city outlast the pyramids!

I'm interested in hearing updates. What year is your city up to now?

You mention forts. But soldiers don't sally forth without the local ruler ordering them into the field. Or are you depending on enemies to come so close to the forts that they will go out on their own? Or are they just for show?

I don't understand how having a huge population avoids ghosts. When the city gets old enough, wouldn't the ghosts just be proportional to the population?

What method are you using to achieve, uh, I mean, avoid victory?

Is your bank balance just going up and up?

When I get to Iunet again (I'm on my second time through history) I'm going to try something like that.

Regards,

Henipatra

I should have included these details in yesterday's post. More coming (eventually).

Senet Player Long Walk Length Limit

I played with my Sawu again, and found that with Bast's temple complex, the palatial estates devolved barely over a year after last being passed by a senet player. In my new Iunet, the senet player will take at least 1 long walk per year. (Other long walkers will take long walks more frequently, since every walk will be a long walk.) This gives a small margin for error: every estate will get coverage from long walkers on at least 4 road tiles.

I played with the Sandbox custom mission, and normal-speed walkers went 24-27 tiles during the time between a senet player disappearance (whether at the senet house or not) and his next appearance. I'll assume that the time between the start of a senet player's walk and the start of the next walk is the time he would take to travel the walk length plus 25 tiles, rounded up to a multiple of 1/16 month.

Using the information in reply #3 of StephAmon's Walkers and teleporters from pavilions, the senet player in my Iunet will take a 35-tile only-blockage-shorted walk, a 73-tile (maximum) confused (blockage-and-distance-shorted) walk, a 59-tile (maximum) confused walk, and a long walk. If the senet player does not run into a solid object while he's "confused" (unlikely, but this is too important to not consider the worst case), then the maximum length of his long walk (including the initial wandering around part) is 383 tiles.

On his long walk, the senet player will wander around for 48 tiles before starting back to the senet house. Therefore, the maximum distance between the farthest point he might reach wandering around (again considering the worst case) and the return point at the senet house is 335 tiles.

Taxation

I may not tax hut-dwellers, who will pay less than 9% of the taxes even if everyone is taxed.

A 9% increase in taxes is something, and there is another reason to tax more people. At Very Hard difficulty, 40%-50% of the people taxed is the worst fraction for city sentiment. Considering tax rates over 2%, for a given effect on city sentiment, the maximum rate when taxing 40%-50% of the people is less than the maximum rate when taxing 90%-100% of the people.

There is a complication. For a given effect on city sentiment, sometimes (but not always) the maximum rate when taxing 90%-100% of the people is less than that maximum rate when taxing 80%-90% of the people. I don't know what tax rates in the final city will be possible, so I don't know whether taxes would be maximized by taxing 100% of the people or by taxing slightly under 90% of the people. If I do tax any huts, I would probably tax under 90% of them, since raising the tax rate (if it is possible) would increase taxes much more than taxing an additional (say) 1400 hut-dwellers.

However, the thought of taxing huts wearies me, from both compassion for the poor hut-dwellers and the somewhat boring design effort. (There may be a little challenge, since fire marshals and physicians in some hut blocks will probably take long walks but tax collectors won't, so some hut dwellers might be taxed part but not all of the time.) Obviously, Iunet won't need the extra money, but more money is better. I'll decide later.

Quoted from Henipatra:

What year is your city up to now?

I haven't started building it yet. This is the design phase.

Quoted from Henipatra:

soldiers don't sally forth without the local ruler ordering them into the field

I will certainly give soldiers orders when enemies invade.

But, eventually, there will be no more invasions (or anything else that might require player interaction). Iunet is an unusual family history mission in this way, which is why I chose to rebuild Iunet.

Quoted from Henipatra:

I don't understand how having a huge population avoids ghosts.

It's because of a quirk in the way deaths are calculated. For a given 10-year age range (such as 51-60 years), the same number of people at each age die (depending on the number of people in that age range). With a large population and not-too-good city health, the demographics should eventually stabilize, with the death rate for the oldest age range high enough to ensure that nobody lives over a certain age. But with a small population, the death rate for that age range might be below 1 person per year, which can lead to several ages that each have a single old person who might survive until becoming a ghost.

Quoted from Henipatra:

What method are you using to ... avoid victory?

Not dispatch the last burial good (a block of granite).

Quoted from Henipatra:

Is your bank balance just going up and up?

Iunet's should, once I build it. Maybe (just this once) I'll take a personal salary (and, of course, use none of it).

Something came up. I won't work on Iunet for at least 10 days, and may check these forums only occasionally during that time.

Sorry to hear that, hope that everything works out for you.

I should soon start designing the hut blocks. Not knowing where 2x2 huts will form, I'll assume that all huts are 1x1, so the middle of a mass of housing would be fairly undesirable without desirability boosters. (Where 2x2 huts actually form, some planned desirability boosters may not be needed.) I'll begin designing in cramped areas where road placement is constrained. After seeing how many people will live in those areas, I should be better able to judge whether or not space will be tight (which will affect how desirability is increased).

Updated Senet Player Long Walk Length Limit

Now that I know more about confused walks (as described in reply #17 of Walkers and teleporters from pavilions), the confused walks of the senet player can be predicted more precisely. In each confused walk, the senet player will go 17 tiles until he encounters a roadblock, roam for 18 tiles, and then walk confused for 0, 2, 3, 9, or 13 tiles (depending on where he is after roaming) before running into a building. (A tiny modification to parts of the road network could change the numbers, but those parts of the design seem solid.)

Assuming that the senet player walks confused for 13 tiles, each confused walk will be 48 tiles long. The maximum allowed length of his long walk (including the initial wandering around part) is 417 tiles. The maximum allowed distance between the farthest point he might reach wandering around and the return point at the senet house is 369 tiles. (I may not use the additional allowed long walk distance, but it's nice to have the option.)

[This message has been edited by Brugle (edited 09-03-2009 @ 12:17 PM).]

looking forward to another post on your design in due course.

The design of the SW (largest) land mass is essentially complete. The rest of the city will have sturdy hut blocks (probably 1 on each land mass) with schools and dentists, all 6 warship wharves, at least 1 transport wharf, around 8 towers, 3 or 4 forts, around 5 bandstands and 8 booths with appropriate conservatories and juggler schools, and some shrines.

More Decisions

Only estate-dwellers will be taxed.

Culture will be 60. Everyone will have teacher coverage, from 5 schools, and (just in case it's needed) space will be reserved for a 6th school and a dedicated firehouse. Everyone will have dentist coverage. An extra bandstand will replace a booth.

Only 10 1x1 sturdy huts will be in the bazaar supply area, since the other 4 planned huts would not be passed by a teacher. (I could have given more of those huts teacher coverage by rearranging the buildings near the festival square, but I prefer to keep the medical buildings close together and the school next to the library.)

A walker who wanders around the festival square before going on a long walk will pass by 317 (if a librarian) or 319 (otherwise) tiles of sturdy hut (and all of the estates), covering slightly over 60% of the people. Overall mortuary coverage will be Above average. Some huts are quite close to the map edge.

If the senet player ends the wandering around part of his long walk at the farthest point, the remainder of his long walk will be 354 tiles. If all of his walks are minimum length, he will average less than 4.5 walks/year. Average beer consumption will be less than 870/year, so 2 breweries will be sufficient (even if breweries lose production when a cart pusher deposits some of his beer in the senet house and the rest in the beer storage yard).

Since the route through the SW desert is fairly long, walkers from the mortuary, library, and schools on the SW land mass will average less than 2 walks/year. Linen consumption will be less than planned. However, teachers from the schools on the other land masses may take around 6 walks/year, so papyrus consumption may be about as planned.

I intend to build Immortal Iunet without deleting anything. (Deletion may be necessary if I mess up.)

Plazas will be extensively used for desirability. In sturdy hut blocks, expensive plazas will be added before vacant lots are placed. If I allowed deletes, a couple of temporary gardens could be built beside a road to allow plazaing. But without deletes, some roads can be plazaed only by first plazaing a fairly distant road and then extending the plaza to the desired section. Extra statues may simplify plazaing roads and lower the initial cost. (I can't plaza all roads with the current design, since that would upgrade the bazaars.)

Worker Check

Before going on, let's check workers. Estimating some buildings, employees needed are:
96 - 8 cattle ranches
12 - 2 fishing wharves
20 - work camp
48 - 6 clay pits
12 - limestone quarry
12 - granite quarry
96 - 8 gold mines
30 - 3 copper mines
12 - jeweler
84 - 7 potters
24 - 2 breweries
24 - 2 weavers
12 - brickworks
20 - shipwright
10 - bricklayer guild
48 - 4 granaries
10 - 2 bazaars
60 - 10 storage yards
12 - dock
96 - 12 booths
72 - 6 bandstands
120 - 6 pavilions
25 - senet house
45 - 9 juggler schools
32 - 4 conservatories
20 - 2 dance schools
8 - Ra temple
8 - Seth temple
50 - Bast temple complex
50 - 5 schools
30 - library
25 - 5 water supplies
10 - 5 dentists
5 - apothecary
80 - 10 physicians
8 - mortuary
186 - 31 firehouses
60 - 12 architect posts
72 - 12 police stations
18 - 3 tax collectors
30 - 3 courthouses
25 - town palace
30 - 6 ferry terminals
102 - 17 towers
10 - recruiter
20 - academy
12 - weaponsmith
90 - 6 warship wharves
18 - 3 transport wharves
----
1999 - Total

If 30.5% of non-scribes are workers, 93.6% of them would fill those jobs. That's good. Make-work jobs can easily reduce unemployment to below 5%. More towers? Police? A Bast temple?

[This message has been edited by Brugle (edited 02-02-2010 @ 07:38 PM).]

Oops.

Fire Protection Rework

A 0.1% chance of a fire in a year is tiny in a normal mission that might last 20 years, but would be disastrous in a city that is expected to run for thousands of years without intervention. I've taken measures that seem appropriate for the fire risk in each building, such as ensuring that a fire marshal cannot go more than a few tiles from a school or library before returning.

Reexamining the design for the SW land mass, I decided to improve fire protection in several places. Among other things, the main road in some of the hut blocks was too long. Most of the hut blocks were made smaller, so a stretch of road was turned into another hut block, maintaining Above average mortuary coverage. The embalmer will cover at least 316 tiles of sturdy hut, more if huts merge in certain places. 12 additional tiles of sturdy hut (covered by the embalmer) are possible, by placing vacant lots as close to the map edge as possible (only partially visible, and that only if the map edge map is on the top of the display). I would prefer not to have houses that close to the edge, but it's nice to have more than 1 tile of embalmer-covered sturdy hut in reserve.)

Shrinking hut blocks reduced the maximum senet player long walk distance to a total of 388 tiles, 340 tiles after wandering around. (By the way, those numbers or similar ones in my last post are slightly off, but they're close enough.) The increase in beer consumption should be insignificant.

Estates have low fire risk. Many NW block estates will be passed by a fire marshal fairly infrequently, and some center block estates have better but still not very good fire protection. That should be OK when they have formed, but fire risk is greater in lower-level houses, especially cottages. So those houses will be evolved to estates as fast as possible. Fortunately, some estates in each block have fairly good fire protection and will be evolved first (and more slowly). I expect that the estates will form before they ignite, but I could be unlucky.

2 places on the SW land mass now have booths planned, since they now have good fire protection. (Some planned booths may not be built, depending on how nicely booths fit into the remainder of the design.)

The approximate employee count is 2056, with an estimated 1 fewer juggler school and an extra 2 physicians, 4 firehouses, 2 architect posts, and 2 police stations. If 30.5% of hut-dwellers are workers, steady-state unemployment should be about 3.7%.

[This message has been edited by Brugle (edited 02-04-2010 @ 08:16 PM).]

Shrines

The gods will be Congenial in the final city, which requires (in addition to the planned temples) 100 shrines: 26 for Bast, 37 for Ra, and 37 for Seth. I have planned where over half of the shrines will go, mostly for desirability but a few for decoration (such as a row of 4 shrines next to the mastaba's entrance), but the type of each shrine and some of their locations will be decided later. If 1x1 huts in certain areas merge then some planned shrines may not be needed for desirability, and they may look better elsewhere.

Design Essentially Done

The school on the N land mass is interesting. The design takes advantage of the different road tiles used for the teacher's start, the teacher's finish, and papyrus delivery.

The tentative plan had 1050 tiles of sturdy hut. So I simplified and shrank some of the hut blocks (but not those that will be passed by the embalmer--in fact, by moving a police station I added 1 more hut with mortuary coverage). The design now has 1008 tiles of sturdy hut, giving me a tiny margin for error.

With 8 juggler schools, 12 physicians, 35 firehouses, 15 architect posts, 12 police stations, and 5 transport wharves, and assuming that the 6th school and its firehouse are not needed, there should be 2056 jobs. (The previous employee estimates were slightly off, from erroneous multiplication.) Steady-state unemployment should be roughly 3.7%.

Personal Rules Review

These are the goals (most of them already mentioned) for Immortal Iunet:
* Stable essentially forever without intervention
* 12000 people: 5000 in palatial estates, 7000 in sturdy huts
* Very Hard difficulty
* All roads connected (including the original Kingdom Road)
* Culture 60
* Center includes palace, mansion, festival square, temple complex, and some estates
* Constant activity in the festival square
* No festivals
* Senet house, mortuary, library, and schools are kept supplied
* Lots of gold mining and expensive exports
* Decent defense: 6 academy-trained forts, 6 warships, some transports
* Except about trade, no use of "future knowledge"
* No personal funds, no debt, no grant, no cheats
* All venues have shows at least part of the time
* No deletions
If either of the last two "rules" are violated, I would consider it only a minor flaw.

Prosperity 100 is not one of the stated goals, since it is implied by the others. With over half of the people living in huts, the prosperity cap would be 755! Some things will be better than implied by the above "rules": mortuary coverage will be Above average, music coverage will be Good, and towers will defend against water invasions.

Next: planning the initial construction.

[This message has been edited by Brugle (edited 02-07-2010 @ 08:24 PM).]

Tiny Design Revisions

I eliminated 1 architect post , but added 1 firehouse because I had overlooked a possible fire marshal route in a pair of pavilions (which I would consider OK in a normal city). The employee count is now 2057.

Some buildings were rearranged to facilitate using subsets of roads and roadblocks during development (without requiring any deletions later) with fewer firehouses, architect posts, physicians, and police stations. While using those subsets, some fire protection won't be as good, but should be OK for a few years.

City Health Again

Since the results in my City Health with All Physician-covered Huts may have depended on the way that the tests were performed, I have less confidence in this thread's reply #1. I still think it likely that a large city will have average city health when 5/12 of the people live in palatial estates, 7/12 of the people live in sturdy huts, and Isis's altar exists, but I'll want to check it. Once houses are entirely palatial estates and sturdy huts, I intend to check city health without Isis's altar, then build Isis's altar (if necessary) and check again.

According to that thread, Immortal Iunet should have city health above poor when the population is under 1300. If enough people live in better houses (perhaps fancy residences), steady-state city health may stay above poor when the population reaches 1300. Also, I'll try to rapidly increase the population from a lower level (with better city health) so that even if steady-state city health falls to poor, actual city health may not. And I'll try to rapidly increase the population beyond 1300 (increasing the fraction of people living in better houses), so that even if steady-state city health falls to poor, it won't stay there long.

Disease Risk in Eventual Estates

Estates (and the houses that will become them) will be passed by a physician less than twice per year on average. The amount of regular increase in disease risk depends on housing level, city health, and maybe other things, so I can't give precise calculations. If there were no other concerns, I'd prefer to not place any pre-estate vacant lots until trade routes are available to obtain papyrus and flax (which would make manors possible). However, there are 2 other concerns: city health later and possible trade.

As discussed in the previous section, I'll try to avoid having too many hut-dwellers when the population reaches 1300. Reasonable development (making money, producing food and goods, starting defense) requires more people early on than I want to live in huts when the population goes over 1300. Therefore, some pre-estate vacant lots will be placed fairly early.

Imports are required to build naval ships and may be required to satisfy a request, and the need for one or both may occur before both papyrus and flax are available. All trade will take place on the SW land mass. One pre-estate will provide labor access for the dock area, and another will provide labor access for the SW land mass ferry terminal (and breweries and weavers). At least one of those houses must exist to trade. More people will be needed then, and the increased housing capacity will mainly come from evolving the pre-estates to ordinary cottages. Since cottages have high fire risk, only pre-estates with OK fire protection (which include the 2 pre-estates needed for trade) will be placed early.

I checked the rise in disease risk in a small number of test houses which a physician passes only about once/year (with the rest of the houses sturdy huts that are frequently passed by a physician). With excellent city health (under 800 people--see the next section), there was minimal disease risk rise in sturdy hut test houses. With good city health (under 1100 people--see the next section), there was minimal disease risk rise in ordinary cottage test houses.

Early Workers

For several years, I expect to occasionally change the distribution of workers by turning industries On or Off and by shifting labor to or from a category (such as Military). Near the start of the mission, I'll extensively micromanage labor priorities, but that quickly becomes tedious. After a short time, I expect to micromanage labor only by giving Food Production and Distribution workers just long enough for a fishing wharf to send its cart pusher to a granary and restock its boat. Once bazaars are built, I expect to micromanage labor either to give Military workers just long enough for the shipwright to start building a naval vessel or for categories that need labor only once in several months: Religion, Entertainment, and Education.

At the start of the mission, production of gold, copper, weapons, clay, pottery, fishing boats, fish, and soldiers will be started as workers and money are available. With Food Production and Distribution micromanaged (usually no workers), these employees will be needed:
8 - clay pit
96 - 8 gold mines
10 - copper mine
12 - potter
20 - shipwright
12 - 2 storage yards
10 - 2 water supplies
24 - 4 physicians
60 - 10 firehouses
25 - 5 architect posts
18 - 3 police stations
1 - (understaffed) town palace
10 - recruiter
20 - military academy
12 - weaponsmith
---
346 - Total
798 people (see next section) will probably not supply that many workers. The clay and pottery industries can be turned Off when the recruiter and academy are built.

For the next phase (evolving pre-estates to ordinary cottages), I'll assume that both land and water trade routes are opened and that naval ships, beer, and linen are produced. The copper industry will be turned Off. With Religion and Entertainment and Military micromanaged (usually no workers), these employees will be needed:
6 - fishing wharf
8 - clay pit
96 - 8 gold mines
12 - potter
12 - brewery
12 - weaver
20 - shipwright
12 - granary
10 - 2 bazaars
18 - 3 storage yards
12 - dock
20 - 4 water supplies
48 - 6 physicians
78 - 15 firehouses
35 - 7 architect posts
24 - 4 police stations
1 - (understaffed) town palace
20 - 4 ferry terminals
---
444 - Total
Over 1000 people will probably be needed, especially if we get a request for a good not being produced yet (such as granite). 1089 people (see next section) should be enough. The clay and pottery industries can be turned Off until there are sufficient workers.

Early Housing

Shortly before houses are evolved past ordinary cottages, 2 vacant lots will be placed (where the huts will eventually be absorbed by a 1x1 spacious apartment expanding into a common residence) to provide labor access to a dance school and conservatory. When immigrants settle in the new houses, the population will increase by 10 but should still be below 1100 (with city health still good), so the population will hit 1100 (and city health may start falling) only after houses evolve past ordinary cottages.

The pre-estates which will be ordinary cottages at that time will be among those that I plan to evolve to palatial estates first. (One requirement is to eventually have sufficient desirability for a palatial estate without too many other estates nearby.) 11 of those pre-estates (6 in the center block and 5 in the NW block) also have OK fire protection. With 2 or 4 tiles in each of those 11 pre-estates, there will be 32 tiles of ordinary cottage.

Along with the 32 tiles of ordinary cottage, there will be 87 tiles of sturdy hut (2 on the NE land mass, 2 on the N land mass, and 83 in sturdy hut blocks on the SW land mass), for a total of 1089 people.

Before houses are evolved past sturdy huts, there will be 114 tiles of sturdy hut, for 798 people. 83 of them will be in sturdy hut blocks and 31 will be pre-estates. (I could shift 1 tile of house from a sturdy hut block to an estate block, but the sturdy hut blocks will have better physician coverage.)

Money

Immortal Iunet will have some unusual early expenses (on top of the usual financial drain at Very Hard difficulty).

Some roads must be plazaed before vacant lots are placed nearby--in particular, before the vacant lots which provide labor access to the gold mines. Since the initial focus will be on mining gold, some shrines and gardens (and maybe statues) will be built before anything else. While waiting for those structures to affect nearby desirability, roads and ferry terminals will be built. The plazas placed first will (after a short wait) also raise desirability and allow more plazaing. After several cycles of that, the first vacant lots will be placed!

Eventually, the palace's citizen will take a long walk (through the estates and the boondocks), but I doubt that there is enough initial money to build that long road immediately. The palace will initially get labor access from the sturdy hut blocks used by the gold mines, but only 5 gold mines can be built (without too many risks) in that arrangement. When it is sure that the palace will have labor access for long enough to make the money to build that long road, the other 3 gold mines can be built.

The water carrier who will pass the initial huts mostly follows the same long road, taking less than 2 walks/year on average. If Bast's temple complex does not exist then those huts will not retain water between his walks. Therefore, Bast's temple complex will be built before the initial huts get water.

The physician who passes the estates also mostly follows the same long road. The vacant lots for the pre-estates will probably not be placed until after that long road is built, and maybe not until about when Bast's temple complex is built.

Its funny that after this game has been analysed to the extent its been analysed you'd think that with enough planning, a "perfect" city can be made (depending on what your definition of perfect is) - and all it takes is over 6 months of work

I just have a few questions with city health:
1. Is health affected by the city demographics (eg: too many old people can make health go from average to poor)

2. Have you considered births in your worker calculations? I'm thinking that if you have alot of births early in your city, when you start having the orginal inhabitants dieing its possible the demographic bellcurve could be alot steeper by the time the city reaches the forever stage.

Other then that I have to say well done and I'm eagerly waiting to see the marvel

Brugle, Sounds like a lot of work and time has gone into design. Moreso than ever before, you have not seemed to allowed anything to be left to chance. I will sit and wait eagerly for the construction to get underway and see the city when finished.

Quoted from evil_live_vile:

1. Is health affected by the city demographics (eg: too many old people can make health go from average to poor)

No, but it is affected by the type of building your residents live in - whether they are fed or not.

Quoted from evil_live_vile:

2. Have you considered births in your worker calculations?

Children should not be a problem as births occur at the beginning of the year and the exact number of births depends on the number of vacancies at the end of the year, after deaths. This means that with an understanding of how city health affects death rates and being able to control how many vacancies you will have at the end of the year, it is possible to quite accurately control the number of births in your city.

This is the whole point of an immortal city. To have health at such a level as to have a constant demographic. ie. same number of citizens in each age group. That is why city health is such an important factor when designing such a city as this one. (At least, that's how I see it!)

Good luck Brugle

I know all about the health rates and imortal thing but i was thinking that a city like iunet with rivers seperating settlements and slowing down immigration might have problems with births. If the city has alot of births in its early years, then that group will then cause a very large amount of deaths in a short time when they age, causing alot of births to fill their place etc (or are births calculated before deaths are?)... I know over time this will stablise with people in the middle demographic dieing too but it may take many generations for this trend to flatten out. I just thought it would be something else to consider for workers and everything

evil_live_vile,

As far as I know, Cantique's answer to your first question is correct. Cantique's answer to your second question is also correct, if you were talking about births in the final city.

My calculations for workers near the beginning of the mission do not take births into account. I am hoping to have few, and will try to avoid them by having few vacancies at the beginning of each year. Vacancies can be avoided by evolving houses (only 1 or 2 levels) shortly after the beginning of a year, so that immigrants will have time to fill the new vacancies before the end of the year. But I sometimes may not be able to choose when to evolve--perhaps a request requiring trade will be received that must be satisfied in a short time.

Once the mission is well-established (beyond the stages described in my previous reply), I would prefer having more births. However, it is more important to not have big changes in births from year to year, and especially to avoid having a spike in births in one year, since that would make ghosts more likely. To avoid ghosts, I may have to have relatively few births until a lot of people get old.

It will take hundreds of years for the demographics to approach a steady-state, with the worker fraction swinging down and up slowly (over decades). Having few births in the first several decades will make the swings in worker fraction worse at first, but it should steady out eventually. To help get through periods of insufficient workers, I may delay building extra staffed buildings (such as Culture buildings and export industries), but the lure of finishing construction may be too strong. I assume that periods of high unemployment can be handled by lowering taxes (if wages are already high).

[I forgot to check for another reply after starting to compose my own. Sorry for discussing stuff that you already know.]

[This message has been edited by Brugle (edited 02-14-2010 @ 09:05 AM).]

Another Employment and Aesthetic Change

A while back, I decided to put a couple of shrines near a NW block estate, with an architect post. I must have miscalculated the desirability, because (assuming I recalculated correctly) those shrines will be unnecessary for evolution to a palatial estate before some nearby towers are built, unnecessary to prevent devolution after the towers are built, and insufficient for evolution after the towers are built. So those shrines and architect post were eliminated from the design. 2051 employees are now estimated.

I had intended to put several more shrines near the NW block (and towers), but cannot without a patrolling architect. In some other places shrines will be packed a little tight, but I think they'll look OK. (All shrine locations and types are now planned.)

I hope to start building Immortal Iunet for real soon.

More Minor Modifications and Mistakes

When starting to build Immortal Iunet, I realized that my comment that the first vacant lots would be placed after plazas existed was wrong. While waiting for some roads to become desirable enough to be plazaed, immigration might as well start (to vacant lots that either do not need plazas nearby or are placed sparsely so that plaza can be added later).

After building for 9 months (which will be reported when a year is done), I decided to revise the design again (in a so-far unbuilt area). Ra's temple and a courthouse were shifted by 1 tile, improving the looks (in my opinion), putting a shrine in the area (so one was removed from the N land mass), and slightly changing priests' walks. More importantly, fire protection for some pre-estates was improved. Only 10 pre-estates (5 in each estate block) will have the planned 32 tiles of ordinary cottage when trade is started.

I also realized that when the road network is changed to allow the last 3 gold mines to be built (which I have already done), the palace's citizen does not need to take a long walk through the estates and boondocks to go by houses. Before that road is finished, he could take a much shorter long walk, requiring less than 50 road tiles in addition to those already built. The road through the estates and boondocks is still crucial (to get physician coverage to the pre-estates and water to almost all of the huts), but now I'm not in such a hurry.