Basic Information

whisperwind777's 13 cities were built from 12 career missions (with 2 Capuas), but 3 of the missions were modified to not have some events. Each has Culture 100, Prosperity 100, Peace 100, Favor 100, and a population that is under the target. Favor decreases by 1 each year, so gifts must be regularly made to Caesar if the city is to be run for a long time. No houses are poorer than grand insulae except in Tarsus which has some large insulae (since not enough wheat can be imported). Each has at least one of the best houses possible in the mission (without using Mercury's blessing) except for Carthago and Damascus (which have grand villas instead of luxury palaces). Gatehouses are only used in external walls. Each is old enough to have a census that is fairly close to steady-state and to not have any more requests or invasions.

These are the cities in the order they were first uploaded (with b.w. = bad water, p.f. = pit flood, m.c. = mine cavein):

City (with modification if any)	People under target	Connect all roads	City health	Stable for years	First problem	Shows at all venues	Health build- ings	Engi- neer posts	Tem- ples	People per market	Special building not built
(Eternal) Capua	395	Not Road to Rome	average	2885	G villa devolves	Yes	4	1	5	702	Senate Governor
Valentia	601	Yes	average	14	G insulae devolve	No	8	6	10	392	-
Caesarea	20	No, but easy fix	average	137	Fire in market	No	4	3	5	388	-
Tarsus	330	Yes	average	16	G insulae devolve	No	10	3	5	515	Governor Hippo
Massilia	152	No	average	292	G insulae devolve	No	10	3	5	491	-
Lugdunum (no landslides)	477	No	average	22	G insulae devolve	No	10	3	5	377	Hippo
Londinium (no b.w. or p.f.)	400	Yes	average	8	G insulae devolve	No	7	4	5	565	-
Mediolanum	628	No	good	170	G villa devolves	No	7	2	5	455	-
(Timeless) Capua	561	Not Road to Rome	average	2499	Fires in farms +	No	4	1	5	1939	Senate
Carthago	917	No	average	6	G insulae devolve	No	6	2	5	462	Hippo
Lutetia	66	No, but easy fix	average	2145	G insula devolves	No	7	3	5	414	-
Damascus (no b.w. or m.c.)	75	No, but easy fix	average	16	Fire in library	No	4	2	40	423	Governor Hippo
Sarmizegetusa	88	No	average	221	G insulae devolve	No	4	2	5	455	Governor

Lugdunum was run with an unpatched game and the other cities with a patched game. Since the patch changes several things, those cities that I thought might run better (Valentia, Tarsus, and Massilia) were also run with an unpatched game, but devolution occurred sooner.

I only noticed devolution that caused a population drop at the end of a month. I think it likely that some cities had grand insulae that devolved only to large insulae (which I wouldn't notice). I think it unlikely that a city lost a few people to devolution but got them back before the end of the month (which I also wouldn't notice).

The cities that had problems in less than 20 years did not form any new ghosts. The cities that ran longer than 20 years without a problem formed new ghosts. (A ghost is a person who reaches 100 years old and does not die. A ghost is removed from the population but takes housing space, eats, and pays taxes.)

Lugdunum and Massilia are the only cities which lose money, but that is easily fixed by raising the tax rate.

Londinium is the only city which uses "long walkers".

[This message has been edited by Brugle (edited 04-01-2014 @ 05:34 PM).]

Eliminated Events

In three cities, some events were eliminated. How much does eliminating events change a mission?

Pit flood events and mine cavein events are usually just minor annoyances. Eliminating them would make a mission very slightly easier.

Bad water events may cause plague, especially for a beginning player. Eliminating bad water events makes a mission easier, but it probably isn't a lot easier for a good player who intends to finish a mission quickly with high city health. However, whisperwind777 played missions for a long time with not-too-high city health (to obtain a census that is close to a steady state), and that would be impossible in an unmodified Londinium or Damascus.

Landslides can cause significant problems in some missions. Several players have reported problems when landslides prevented enough timber from being imported in Lugdunum, especially when fruit is also imported or when trade takes place far from the Road to Rome. If landslides had not been eliminated, whisperwind777's Lugdunum might not import sufficient timber or fruit.

It would have been better if the Download descriptions of those three missions had explained that events had been eliminated. (whisperwind777 did say that landslide events were cancelled in the Timeless Lugdunum thread.)


Population

All cities have less than the required population, to prevent victory. I would consider the cities to be better if they had reached the population requirement but had less than the required Favor, since Favor is easy to raise (and has to be regularly raised anyway if the city is to be run for many years). Apparently, whisperwind777 thought that the cities would be better with Favor 100 but too few people.

Three cities, Caesarea, Lutetia, and Damascus, would have the required population with only one more grand insula, and my guess is that those cities (and perhaps a few others) could have been built with enough people without too much trouble.

However, reaching the population requirement in some cities would be harder. In particular, the limited supply of oil in Londinium makes having 10000 people in oil-using houses (with Culture 100 and consuming only as much oil as is imported) much more difficult than having only 9600 people. I'd consider whisperwind777's Londinium to be much better if it had the required population even if both Favor and Culture were less than 100.


Stability

In three cities, the first problem I saw was a fire breaking out.

In ten cities, the first problem I saw was one or more houses devolving and causing a population loss at the end of a month. In several cases, the houses which devolved recovered and the cities eventually gained back their population. Some players might not consider occasional devolution-and-recovery to be a significant problem, but whisperwind777 did--the "Timeless Lugdunum" thread includes the rule "No devlotion for at least 2000 years after the city is done" and said that it was also used in previous cities.

Six cities ran for 6 to 22 years without a problem. Those times are reasonable for a player who wants a city to run for a while but isn't trying to survive major demographic changes.

Four cities ran for 137 to 292 years without a problem. Those times are very impressive.

The remaining three cities, Lutetia and the two Capuas, ran for 2145 to 2885 years without a problem. Some players might consider those times long enough to think of the cities as "eternal" or "timeless". I suspect that the Capuas lasted so long because of the special ways their markets were arranged, which are discussed under "Walker Efficiency". I don't know why Lutetia lasted as long as it did, but its stability is spectacular.

[This message has been edited by Brugle (edited 04-01-2014 @ 05:34 PM).]

Connected Roads

Three cities have all roads connected. Three others have all roads connected except for a gatehouse (and adjacent roads) near some forts, which could easily be connected to the other roads. whisperwind777 considered this to be important--four of those cities have "city is fully connected" in their download descriptions.

It is easy to see why the roads in some cities weren't connected. Not connecting roads in Samizegetusa prevented any grand insuale from getting coverage from more than one god (so they wouldn't evolve). Not connecting roads in Massilia prevented most markets from getting fruit (which was reserved for luxury palaces and a small block of grand insulae). Not connecting to the Road to Rome in Capua (which does not allow gatehouses) prevented various walkers from going astray. But it's hard for me to see why roads weren't connected in some of the cities.


Compactness and Defense

whisperwind777's cities are compact (allowing for the terrain in some missions). To me, it appears that some of his cities (including Valentia, Londinium, and both Capuas) are contained in an area that is considerably smaller than most players use (even considering that the population is too low).

In general, a compact city is easier to defend. However, of the cities that are attacked, Caesarea and Londinium are built up to the map edges, with no chance of defense if an attack came from those directions. In Lutetia and Damascus, there is no way for soldiers to intercept an attack from certain directions. (From the messages, no attacks came from those directions.)

Lutetia (and to a lesser extent, Mediolanum, Tarsus, and maybe Sarmizegetusa) are the only cities that don't come close to map edges. (If whisperwind777 knew when and where each attack occurred, troops could have been moved into position before the attack.) Valentia has perhaps the best troop positions for defense against attacks from any direction, but if it was attacked from the entry point troops might need advance warning. (From the messages, Valentia was not attacked from the entry point.)

The one city with towers, Mediolanum, has 6 out of 7 of them positioned to defend against attacks from one direction. (From the messages, all attacks either came from that direction or could be distracted with javelins to attack from that direction.)

In my opinion, a city is better if "future history" is not used. In other words, a city should be well defended against attacks from any direction (whether or not any actually occur) and with troops that stay in their forts until an attack begins. Note: it is possible that a city might be slightly less compact if it is built so that troops can easily move to repel any possible attack.


Walker Efficiency

In each city, most of the roads are in 1 or 2 sections which do not have gatehouses. This allows some walkers to cover much of the city (which is perhaps the feature I like the most in whisperwind777's cities). Caesarea, with 6980 people, is the largest city to use only 4 health buildings. Lutetia, with 9934 people, uses only 5 temples, 3 engineer posts, and 1 senate and 1 forum (which register everyone for tax at least part of the time). Damascus, with 5925 people, could register everyone for tax with just a senate, but also has a forum to increase tax registration.

Each city has 1 amphitheater, 1 colosseum, 1 gladiator school, and 1 lion pit. Those cities that have a hippodrome have 1 chariot maker. Mediolanum, with 6372 people, is the largest city that gives every house colosseum coverage. Valentia is the only city that gives every house hippodrome coverage. The two Capuas are the only cities that give every house amphitheater coverage.

However, since walkers are not isolated to certain areas, a house may not get reliable coverage from any market trader. Therefore, except for the two Capuas, there are a lot of markets. Similarly, in deserts, a building may not get reliable fire protection from a single prefect, so there are a lot of prefectures.

Every house in Eternal Capua is covered by a market trader when she either leaves or returns to her market. The market buyers go at most 12 tiles each way to the granary and at most 15 tiles each way to a warehouse. These moderate distances and the effective market traders allow the markets to support a reasonable number of people apiece.

A single market trader in Timeless Capua covers every house on each of her walks. The market buyer goes 0 tiles to the granary and at most 5 tiles each way to a warehouse. These very short distances and the effective market trader allow the market to support a lot of people.

[This message has been edited by Brugle (edited 02-15-2014 @ 12:07 PM).]

Food Distribution

All cities grow or import wheat. All cities grow or import meat or catch fish. Except for Tarsus (which only has 2 foods available), in each city there are grand insulae with 3 foods stored. Damascus has grand insulae with 4 foods stored. Except for 2 grand insulae in Mediolanum and 1 grand insulae in Sarmizegetusa, all houses store meat or fish, and those 3 houses eventually store meat if the cities are run for a while.

Few granaries are used. Except for Tarsus, Massilia, and Valentia, each city has at least one granary which holds multiple foods. Each Capua has only 1 granary, which holds 3 foods. Damascus has only 2 granaries, which together hold 4 foods. Except for both Capuas, some market buyers in each city go over 20 tiles each way to a granary, reducing market efficiency.

Farmed food is produced with little excess, and imported food won't go far, so one food is often in short supply. (I didn't check fish production, but it seemed to be enough.) Only in Tarsus and Massilia are there usually adequate supplies of all eaten foods. In the other cities, market buyers may be sent to try to get a small amount of a rare food (when it is available), reducing market efficiency.


Goods Distribution

Every city exports pottery, furniture, or oil. Except for Massilia, every city imports pottery, furniture, or oil. In some cities, a warehouse will occasionally run out of a good.

Few warehouses are used. Except for Mediolanum and Sarmizegetusa, every city has at least one warehouse that contains at least two of these goods: pottery, furniture, and oil. Except for both Capuas, some market buyers in each city go over 30 tiles each way to a warehouse, reducing market efficiency.


Entertainment Shows

Races are held in all hippodromes (in cities that have one).

Animal contests are held in all colosseums.

Gladiator bouts are held in all colosseums and all amphitheaters.

Only Eternal Capua has plays in all theaters and its amphitheater. All other cities never have a play in at least one theater. Valentia never has a play in its amphitheater. Timeless Capua, Carthago, Lutetia, Damascus, and Sarmizegetusa never have any plays.


Labor Access

In most cities, all buildings that use workers have labor access. A pig farm in Caesarea, a wheat farm in Londinium, and a vegetable farm in Londinium occasionally lose labor access. A furniture workshop in Lugdunum and a wine workshop in Sarmizegetusa deliberately do not have labor access.

Special Buildings

I consider a city more attractive when it has at least one of each available entertainment venue and when it has a city center (that may not be in the center of the city) including the senate, a governor's residence, and some of the best houses. Valentia, Caesarea, Massilia, and Mediolanum meet those criteria. Londinium comes close. Lutetia has the senate a significant distance from the other nice buildings. Valentia is especially attractive in this way, with the city center on the hill.


Culture Building Concentration

I consider a city less attractive when there are multiples of the same Culture building together. Only Eternal Capua and Lugdunum have none of the same Culture building together, although Timeless Capua, Mediolanum, Tarsus, Carthago, and Sarmizegetusa are pretty good.

Academies are 3x3 and sometimes a row of them will fit neatly in a 3-wide space. My guess is that whisperwind777 thought that having a slightly more compact city was more important than not putting multiples of the same Culture building together.


House Desirability and Surroundings

Some grand insulae have wine in each city, and all grand insulae have wine in Valentia, Tarsus, Londinium, Carthago, Lutetia, Damascus, and both Capuas. In all cities except for Massilia and Sarmizegetusa, there is at least one grand insulae which does not evolve only because it has insufficient desirability. Eternal Capua is the only city where all grand insulae would evolve if their desirability was raised enough (such as by plazaing all roads)--the other cities have some grand insulae which are covered by only one god.

However, I consider cities to be less attractive when houses touch non-plazaed roads or bare ground, as do some houses in all of the cities. (I'd guess that some players would find that strange, since I don't mind having an undesirable building or tree next to a house, but those are my preferences.)


Experimentation versus Planning

whisperwind777's cities require a lot of experimentation, shown by the several cities that were updated and by reply #5 of Garden in place of gatehouse and a new way of housing block design. While I do like cities that are planned in advance and work as expected when built, cities that require experimentation to work properly can be much harder to build.

Walker control apparently used both planning and experimentation. Consider Caesarea. Using knowledge of how random walkers start, the 3 engineer posts were placed so that engineers would cover the entire city, with no testing required. The 5 temples were placed so that priests pass all houses, luxury palaces are passed by 3 priests, and only 2 grand insulae are passed by multiple priests, also with no testing required. However, the barber, hospital, and bath were placed where it was not clear whether they would cover the western housing block without testing (unless whisperwind777 developed geomancy, used it in the desert, and didn't mention it, which I doubt). I also expect that different prefecture placements were tried.

Food control required experimentation. whisperwind777 said that different numbers of granaries and markets were tested. Also, the number of farms of different types (and perhaps of wharves) may have been tried.

I expect that in some cities, goods control also required experimentation. For example, when multiple goods are in a storage yard, with at least one of them exported, several "Exports over" numbers might be tried in an effort to minimize the amount of time that one of the goods runs out.


Favorite

Lutetia is my favorite of whisperwind777's cities in our Downloads, for its stability, population near the requirement, almost connected roads, and central location. I don't like that it never has any plays, but that isn't important enough to drop it from my first place.

Hi Brugle,

I had a look at Valentia and Lutetia and I read your messages above. If I understand correctly, the main idea in whisperwind777's cities is that they run for a a very long time. At least some of them do. Secondary ideas are realistic look and efficiency.

Here is a link to all 13 cities for easy access:
http://caesar3.heavengames.com/downloads/lister.php?category=cities&author=whisperwind777

Building eternal cities is certainly a challenge. I think what is interesting in whisperwind's cities is that the realistic look theme shouldn't work in eternal cities (because connected roads and complicated road structure adds randomness to walkers) but yet it does.

I also noticed that in all 13 cities population was used to prevent promotion. Of course you need to avoid at least one winning criteria because if you get promoted you can only run for 2 or 5 more years. I guess whisperwind wanted the cities to be true to the objectives of the mission.

If it was me I would pick culture because then I could rise population much beyond the objectives and to the limit of available resources and space and probably add lots of patrician houses too. In fact that is exactly how I built many career missions.

But I have to say, the compact look of whisperwind's cities, the modesty, the clever ideas that make them work look impressive. There is an understated beauty and smartness about them.

[This message has been edited by Philon (edited 02-16-2014 @ 07:41 PM).]

Quoted from Brugle:
Every house in Eternal Capua is covered by a market trader when she either leaves or returns to her market.

Eternal Capua (North is upper left):


Legend

Small statues mark routing centers, walk targets are marked by plazas.


The topmost market:
On 3 of the walks (NE, NW, and SW) the market trader will make the whole loop (the top part of the city, the top part of the "8"). The 4th walk (the SE walk) is a default walk on which the market trader walks towards the intersection and is entirely in random mode. It seems to contradict Brugle's statement.

The market in the middle:
3 of the walks (NE, SE, and SW) cover the whole loop. The 4th (the NW walk) is a default walk on which the market trader goes towards the intersection. It also seems to contradict Brugle's statement.

The bottommost market:
3 of the walks (SE, SW, and NW, which is default) cover the whole loop. The NE walk cover only the part from the start title to the intersection (in the bottom loop), but no houses are located "behind" this part.


To me, market placement in Eternal Capua doesn't look significantly different from market placement in most of whisperwind777's cities (except for Timeless Capua). Perhaps I don't understand the logic behind the placement. Or, I might have made mistakes predicting walks. If someone disagrees with me, I would like to hear an explanation.

Quoted from equi:

Perhaps I don't understand the logic behind the placement.

As I said, in Eternal Capua, each house is covered by a market trader either when she leaves her market or when she returns to her market. This has nothing to do with market trader paths.

Oh my god, the starting and finishing titles cover all the houses, no need to look at the paths. I feel like a fool. I did look at the starting titles, but I completely forgot about the finishing ones. Well, at least I understand it now. Thank you, Brugle.

Quoted from Brugle:
Few granaries are used. Except for Tarsus, Massilia, and Valentia, each city has at least one granary which holds multiple foods. Each Capua has only 1 granary, which holds 3 foods. Damascus has only 2 granaries, which together hold 4 foods.

What prevents those granaries from overflowing with one food? I've always stuck to the rule of having only one food type in one granary. Is there a technique to hold 2 foods in one granary?

Quoted from equi:

What prevents those granaries from overflowing with one food?

Sometimes, a granary that can hold multiple foods does become filled with one food. If there isn't much extra food production/imports, a granary won't stay full for long. (The limited supplies of some foods does reduce market efficiency.)

Quoted from equi:

Is there a technique to hold 2 foods in one granary?

I'd guess that whisperwind777 experimented a great deal until he found a combination that seemed to work well.

I'm surprised Timeless Capua lasted for so long, considering it has poor fire protection. There's only one prefecture for the whole "8", and the prefect walks two times in a row in one part of the "8", then two times in another.

Quoted from Brugle:
My replies won't be as extensive as I had planned--there is more research that might be done, but I want to publish.

If you have certain things in mind that you wanted to look into, but haven't, you can share them. Maybe others will find them interesting and contribute to the research.

Quoted from equi:

If you have certain things in mind that you wanted to look into, but haven't, you can share them.

There are many things that might be examined in detail. For instance, one might look at houses that devolve. Do markets frequently run out of goods, and it's just coincidence when this happens to several at once? Is this affected by warehouses running out of goods? Are markets more likely to run out of goods when their buyers are spending more time getting scarce foods? The only city I examined for this was Lugdunum (where the devolution problem began with a warehouse running out of oil), but I suspect that devolution in some other cities was caused by other things.

I looked at Massilia, and the problem there is fairly predictable.
The city is divided into 2 disconnected parts (connected only by garden and not by road). The western part of the city has only one warehouse from which all markets buy goods. 3 goods are being kept in one warehouse. The warehouse is getting two goods and accepting one. It seems very likely that at some point in the future there will be a period of time during which the warehouse will not be able to get one of the goods. Indeed, 292 years later the warehouse isn't able to get pottery for some time, and lots of houses devolve because of the lack of it.

I have another question. Perhaps, even more foolish than the previous ones. Why the chariot from the hippodrome in Massilia rides in both (disconnected!) parts of the city? Once the algorithm finds a disconnected road tile, it should generate a default walk, which can't possibly make its way through the garden and on to the other part of the city.

Quoted from equi:

Why the chariot from the hippodrome in Massilia rides in both (disconnected!) parts of the city? Once the algorithm finds a disconnected road tile, it should generate a default walk,

In C3, a random walker will go through gardens when walking to the walk target (as it will when returning to its building). All of the chariots generated by the hippodrome follow grounded (using StephAmon's term) walks.

The problem in Massilia can be fixed (or at least delayed) by setting lower furniture export limit. It will make the warehouse in the western part of the city store less furniture (it accepts furniture and gets oil and pottery). This will make it less likely that the warehouse won't be able to get one of the goods. However, the city won't be stable for much longer, because the eastern part of the city is also not without problems. I tried to change the furniture export limit from 15 to 12. With that alteration the city is stable for 306 years. After these years, the goods in the warehouse in the eastern part of the city, near the Colosseum, arrange in such a way, that the warehouse is not able to get oil for some time. It causes some houses on the large southeastern island to devolve. This happens, again, because of the furniture. There's too much of it in the eastern warehouse and along with pottery it arranges in a way that leaves no room for oil. I might try setting the furniture export limit even lower. I don't have high hopes though.
[edit: I tried exporting furniture over 8 units. There was a brief devolution-and-recovery in 115 years, so it didn't work out.]

Quoted from Brugle:
Lugdunum is the only city which loses money, eventually going into debt,

Massilia also loses money. But it loses money very slowly, and it has a large reserve, so this doesn't affect it's stability.

Quoted from Brugle:
The remaining three cities, Lutetia and the two Capuas, ran for 2145 to 2885 years without a problem. Some players might consider those times long enough to think of the cities as "eternal" or "timeless".

I'll probably consider a city as "eternal" if it becomes unstable due to workforce loss caused by ghosting, but not if it encounters a problem with fire protection or distribution of food and goods.
Do you have save games of Eternal Capua and Lutetia not long before devolution? I wonder if these devolutions occurred because of the ghost problem.

[This message has been edited by equi (edited 04-01-2014 @ 05:42 PM).]

Quoted from equi:

Massilia also loses money.

Thanks for catching my mistake. I edited reply #1.

Quoted from equi:

I'll probably consider a city as "eternal" if it becomes unstable due to workforce loss caused by ghosting, but not if it encounters a problem with fire protection or distribution of food and goods.

That seems strange to me. To me, a city being "eternal" means that it will last for a long time--when a city fails, it fails.

Quoted from equi:

Do you have save games of Eternal Capua and Lutetia not long before devolution? I wonder if these devolutions occurred because of the ghost problem.

Eternal Capua failed because the hospital had too few workers (caused by ghosting), and the grand villa lost hospital coverage for just long enough to devolve.

Lutetia failed because a grand insulae ran out of furniture (and devolved to a 1x1 small shack and a 1x1 small tent). Ghosting caused a loss of workers only in the military.

[This message has been edited by Brugle (edited 04-01-2014 @ 05:42 PM).]

Any player who downloaded one of whisperwind777's cities not too long after it was originally uploaded might have an old version. (I had an old version of a city and wasted some time analyzing it.)

I've recently found out that the Chinese version 1.1 is actually different from patched ver 1.1 and interestingly, its a version somehow between 1.0 and 1.1. Some "bugs" or "features" still exist from 1.0 in 1.1 Chinese version, like

* Market buyers would sometimes try to buy a good from a nearby warehouse that they could not reach (lack of road connection). The market buyer would then disappear immediately after exiting her market. Buyers will now only try to go to warehouses that they can reach.

In Chinese version 1.1, market lady would still buy goods from nearby warehouse. There are some other "features" left behind in Chinese version which might explained why some 777's cities had to be loaded with English ver 1.0. And some of them may not actually devolved so soon with Chinese ver 1.1.

[This message has been edited by counting (edited 04-22-2015 @ 12:07 PM).]

Quoted from counting:

I've recently found out that the Chinese version 1.1 is actually different from patched ver 1.1 and interestingly, its a version somehow between 1.0 and 1.1.

I've assumed that the Chinese version is derived from the original version (1.0). What features are in the Chinese version that are not in the original (other than the Chinese language)?

Ya, the Chinese version has to be a variation of the 1.0, but not totally patched the same way as English or other language versions. I don't know if the landscape leveling feature is one of them can be used in English ver 1.1. (Using housing expanding swallow water tile, and walls to stairs)

The most common difference I found is how performers from training school finding the entertainment buildings. In many cities I find in Chinese 1.1 version, the gladiators and lions can find the Coliseum, but the English patched version they can not find the target, and won't sent out performers (even though the entertainment buildings can easily send out performers themselves). The Coliseum is connected to 2 road networks, one is for send out performers, but the training facility is on another network connected to it. Also in Chinese ver 1.1 the Hippodrome doesn't have to be maned at all as long as an entry tile within the front part exist 1 tile of road connected to the rest with gardens (no forced walker route needed), but still able to receive chariots from training school.

These are what stands out the most (along with the nearby warehouse buying from market without connection) and often get abused by our forum city builders to create schematics using them. I'll try to collect more information, and ask around, see how many more differences are there.

Quoted from counting:

the Chinese version has to be a variation of the 1.0, but not totally patched the same way as English or other language versions

As far as I can tell, the Chinese version is not patched at all (except for using the Chinese language).

Quoted from counting:

I don't know if the landscape leveling feature is one of them can be used in English ver 1.1. (Using housing expanding swallow water tile, and walls to stairs)

I don't know these features. Would you explain them with detailed examples? (When I understand them, I can check whether they are in either English version.)

Quoted from counting:

The most common difference I found is how performers from training school finding the entertainment buildings. In many cities I find in Chinese 1.1 version, the gladiators and lions can find the Coliseum, but the English patched version they can not find the target, and won't sent out performers (even though the entertainment buildings can easily send out performers themselves). The Coliseum is connected to 2 road networks, one is for send out performers, but the training facility is on another network connected to it. Also in Chinese ver 1.1 the Hippodrome doesn't have to be maned at all as long as an entry tile within the front part exist 1 tile of road connected to the rest with gardens (no forced walker route needed), but still able to receive chariots from training school.

If I understand correctly, this is like the unpatched version.

Quoted from counting:

I'll try to collect more information, and ask around, see how many more differences are there.

Don't bother with differences between the Chinese version and the patched English version (1.1). If there are any, find differences between the Chinese version and the unpatched English version (1.0).

As far as I can tell, the Chinese version is not patched at all (except for using the Chinese language).

But most patched related to bugs like warning massages (oracle warnings, far away roads, building limit, etc), plaza/gatehouses on top of plaza, prefects stop to put out fires, and a lot more obvious bugs, get patched in Chinese 1.1 versions. (even things like prefect combat strength, so we can also use prefectures sea as a valid defense)

I don't know these features. Would you explain them with detailed examples? (When I understand them, I can check whether they are in either English version.)

I don't know how to explain it in detail without a graph, originally a house is blocked with small statue like this, clear the statue and instant undo, the result is like this, clear the house, the land underneath will no longer be water but land. Similar to wall and towers, wall close to stairs build towers and undo.

If I understand correctly, this is like the unpatched version.

Feels like it, but I don't have English 1.0 version anymore, don't know if will act the same or not. And why I think Chinese version 1.1 is a version between Official 1.0 and 1.1 patch.

Quoted from counting:

I don't know how to explain it in detail without a graph, originally a house is blocked with small statue like this, clear the statue and instant undo, the result is like this, clear the house, the land underneath will no longer be water but land.

Interesting. I'll have to dig out an old computer where I have the original C3 installed, which I may not have time to do today.

Quoted from counting:

Similar to wall and towers, wall close to stairs build towers and undo.

So, build a 2x2 wall beside stairs, build a tower on it and click undo and then what happens?

Quoted from counting:

And why I think Chinese version 1.1 is a version between Official 1.0 and 1.1 patch.

It seems so.

So, build a 2x2 wall beside stairs, build a tower on it and click undo and then what happens?

Depends on stairs closer to higher ground or lower ground, lower ground its similar to house swallow, on the higher ground it looks like flat tile but bugged/corrupted tile. Some say house expand trick could work on stairs too, like its a road tile, but I never succeeded, they said it has something to do with orientation, only certain expansion direction works (toward bottom right corner facing north)