AFAIK there are 4 music sets.

AoE1 redbook audio, AoE1 midi, RoR redbook audio and RoR midi.

The music that plays when you insert the AoE Gold/Collectors CD is the RoR redbook audio.

Yeah, I searched that online but it sounds exactly the same as the RoR midi.

some people have uploaded the original aoe soundtracks to youtube.

eg: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Llo8ckcrYgI

That's what I was talking about. see here. That link is of the RoR OST music 1, which is IDENTICAL to my midi version.

[This message has been edited by anterior2 (edited 01-04-2013 @ 02:05 AM).]

I really liked how primitive the original music of AoE sounded

I know for sure the Ubisoft eXclusive Gold release doesn't have Redbook audio on it, only the Midi as installed to HDD.

If it we're in Redbook format, you should be able to play it like a normal audio CD with any media player.

[This message has been edited by D3vil99 (edited 02-16-2013 @ 09:23 PM).]

If you want the original redbook audio, just put it on Youtube, and listen while playing, like I do.

Here is the original themesong: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=N_jM8mqLQ8M

Really epic!

Playing with MIDI is terrible. Vanilla AOE CD music is epic, ROR is not that good, but not bad. Vanilla AOK is rather poor, except for the first 2 in-game tracks (which are epic), and The Conquerors is great again.

What Lord Draganta posted is the last in-game track from vanilla AOE. Apparently they mixed AOE & ROR tracks in Gold Edition in different order (and removed some of the best).

Here are vanilla AOE main menu song and ROR main menu song.

Ahhh, AoE main menu song, brings back childhood memories!

Yeah, aoe_scout, the MIDI isn't that bad. For Age1 Vanilla, it is like a whole extra bonus soundtrack as the songs are completely different, there is only one which is just an upgraded version of itself going from MIDI to redbook.

For RoR, I have enough evidence to say that the MIDIs = the RedBook recordings, except the redbook ones are symphonic and the MIDIs synthesised versions of the same song.

For example listen to this Music 7 (can't remember if RoR or that one that was upgraded in vanilla). In the MIDI version, it is the same tune and everything, but the whole piece just sounds blander and 'flatter'. For example, you can clearly tell where the flute is playing and the string ensemble and you can distinguish all the instruments apart in that recording, but the MIDI just sounds like it all is comming from some kind of synth/keyboard.



tl;dr version: AoE vanilla MIDI and redbook are two completely separate and different soundtracks, but the RoR redbook audio is just an upgraded, orchestrated version of the same MIDI songs.

[This message has been edited by anterior2 (edited 05-03-2013 @ 03:35 AM).]

Also Lord Draganta, you might want to fix your website. My security program went nuts when I visited your 'AoE Village' and clicked on the 'Contact' tab at the top. First some fake "Install adobe flash" pop-up appeared, except it was loaded right on your site with Java, and mocked up to look like an unconvincing window from Adobe. The giveaway was the fact that it was in another language, and my anti-virus "blocked Java attack".


GET THEM VIRUSES OFF YOUR WEBSITE OR GET THAT WEBSITE OUT OF YOUR SIGNATURE!

Screenshot:

[This message has been edited by anterior2 (edited 05-03-2013 @ 03:48 AM).]

Yes, same problem with AOE Village for me.

About the MIDI, I listen to them with a soundfont and they still don't sound good enough to me. Yes, not too bad, but once you've got used to CD audio, midi sounds bad. Besides, midi is just a replacement, a simplified version, the real soundtrack is from the CD. In AOE2, there is no midi, only CD audio.

You are right about some of the tracks from vanilla AOE being entirely new, but only 4 of them (I just checked to confirm):
midi tracks 1, 3, 4, 6 are new
non-midi versions of midi tracks 8, 9 are included in AOE CD
non-midi versions of midi 2, 5, 7 are included in ROR CD

I don't know why they created different music for midi/CD audio for vanilla AOE (ROR is 1:1), may be because some of the CD tracks for vanilla AOE are really complex and wouldn't sound properly with midi. Also, midi itself was worse back then, most people didn't use the improved driver (GS-wavetable), but the simpler one, which doesn't sound like real instruments.

Did you really got original AOE disc from cereal??

[This message has been edited by aoe_scout (edited 05-03-2013 @ 08:11 AM).]

I use SGM180 v1.5 when I'm listening to anything midi related. I feel it's the best soundfont out there, been using for years. SGM 2.01 is the latest but I feel that some of the quality dropped. You can find the download here: http://www.findthatzipfile.com/search-16624295-hZIP/winrar-winzip-download-sgm180v1.5.zip.htm

Though if your curious about 2.01 you can go to the creators homepage here: http://www.geocities.jp/shansoundfont/

But I guess it's personal preference talking.

I also use SynthFont for midi playback since I don't have a Soundblaster card.

As to what I prefer, I like the CD audio. Though once you get the right enhancements for midi, it sounds just as good.

What on earth is a soundfont? I haven't used a separate soundcard since the old Pentium II (upgraded later to Pentium III) computer I once had with a 4gb hard drive and either 256 or 512mb of RAM (old-fashioned ram, not even DDR). It was a 16bit SoundBlaster card, and I only used it because the motherboard did not come with any onboard audio capacity lol. Ever since then every computer I have had has had audio integrated on the motherboard, making external cards pointless.

Also yes, I got AoE 1 Vanilla version 1.0 from a packet of Nutri Grain. It was a trend back then (early 2000's, about 2000-2005) to put CDs in cereal packets. I also got VRally2, Moto Racer 3 and Supreme Snowboarding from cereal packets (all were full proper games) plus some gimmicky Kellog's branded 'promotional' skateboarding themed software that let you make music by stringing together a bunch of sound effects.

EDIT: The cereal packet edition of AoE1 was basically the same as the original release, except it's autorun script tried to play the trailer for Age of Mythology every time you wanted to play. You had to watch the trailer (skippable by pressing esc), then exit out of a dialogue box that asked if I wanted to go to the AoM website, and THEN the proper game would launch. This worked fine in Windows XP, but when the autorun code was changed for windows 7 it broke this process, invariably crashing everything. I had to set it to not execute the autorun and manually launch the empires.exe.

Oh, and as for AoK/AoE2, if you download the trial version for Vanilla and The Conquerors, you will notice it comes with MIDI music. The vanilla trial MIDIs are THE SAME as the redbook CD audio (except the redbook audio sounds better). As for the conquerors audio, I have no clue if the MIDIs and Redbook audio is different or the same (I haven't listened to the conquerors soundtrack on youtube yet).

I found this out because I bought the collector's edition DVD set, which comes with AoE1, AoE:RoR, AoK/AoE2, AoK: TC all on the one disc, BUT NO REDBOOK AUDIO! That is why I noticed the MIDI and Redbook comparasins between my original cereal packet CD (which came with redbook audio) and the DVD version (which also seems to have a legal No-CD patch on it somehow) with only MIDIs.

The DVD version of AoK on that had absolutely no soundtrack at all (no MIDIs were put on the release version) so I got around this by downloading the AoK and AoK:TC trials, and copying the MIDIs over from there to the main game files (for some reason the code to play MIDIs was still left in the release versions of AoK and AoK:TC).


We really need a page on this site chronicle-ing every single version of this game released to the public (so everything except the betas/alphas). There must be at least 5 distinct releases of the game (Original, Gold Edition, Trial version, cereal packet, DVD).

[This message has been edited by anterior2 (edited 05-03-2013 @ 09:37 PM).]

I don't think we could cover even all possible cereal releases (joking).

There are many different releases by different companies, but the game is the same, only the original music is stripped from some collector's\Gold editions. The music itself is also the same (they didn't created new music), except for the difference between midi and CD audio for AOE1 (described above) and midi track 7 from AOE2 Trial (which is not available as CD audio). Another small difference is that the official AOE1 Gold edition (by Microsoft) have mixed AOE & ROR music tracks (CD audio). AOE2 is not supposed to have midi, except for trial versions. I just checked The Conquerors Trial, no new midi tracks, most are even from vanilla AOE2.

UserPatch for AOE2 allows you to listen to original game music from mp3 (if you rip your CD). Same thing will be possible for AOE:ROR with my UPatch from v2.0 (thanks to LucTieuPhung). You can do it with Binary Patcher yourself, if you don't want to wait.

PhatFish already created a great site for all alpha\beta AOE\AOM versions. That's where real difference exist.

[This message has been edited by aoe_scout (edited 05-04-2013 @ 01:35 AM).]

Yes, I have explored Phatfish's site before, it is truely amazing. That is why I specifically excluded Betas and Alphas from my version info suggestion; he has already covered the pre-releases better than anyone else can.

I think I have to disagree with you on the topic of the AoK music. The Conqueror's MIDIs are completely different to the vanilla MIDIs, and AoK was probably supposed to ship with MIDIs (evidence being that the game will play the MIDIs when they are added to the game files). My feeling is that they took them out to save space on the disc, or maybe they thought computers had moved on from 1997 and were now capable of playing music and a game at the same time (and could not forsee of a world where playing games without a CD was normal).


Also believe it or not there is actually deactivated code in the genie engine for playing .mp3s as the game soundtrack already. I read about it on some questionable website a year or so ago where they were discussing the changes they had made to the .exe for their pirate version (I came across the site legitimately while looking for a solution to the no music in AoK problem).

From memory the code was in there for the Mac version of the game (because Macs way back then couldn't synthesise MIDI I think, or maybe they couldn't play CD Audio- one of the two) which at some point (in either AoE or AoK) included .mp3s as soundtrack music (either as the main in place of redbook audio or as a backup in place of MIDI- can't remember) in the Mac version.

According to them, the only changes they needed to make to get a .mp3 soundtrack working was swaping a couple of lines of code around.

[This message has been edited by anterior2 (edited 05-04-2013 @ 03:48 AM).]

Mp3 is already possible for both AOE1 & AOE2 (read my last comment). AOE2 have always been able to play mp3 - the open theme, win, lost music and scenario instructions were always mp3-s. And now the in-game music can also be mp3 with UserPatch.

The Conquerors midi is not different, I downloaded both and every track (except N:7 from AOK) is either available on AOK CD or TC CD. When I say most are from AOK, I compare them with the original music, I don't really care which track they included as midi in which Trial version.

Removing midi from AOE2 certainly had nothing to do with space on the disc (all midi-s are below 200KB, 50KB when compressed). They must have felt that the music doesn't sound good with midi (and it's true) and there is no need for it.

Playing games with CD audio doesn't require computer power, while decoding mp3-s does (of course it's nothing by today standards). The reason they included midi for AOE1 might be because by that time some CD-ROMs were slow and unable to read special discs (Mixed Mode CDs) that have data (files) as first track and audio as second, third, etc.

[This message has been edited by aoe_scout (edited 05-04-2013 @ 03:52 PM).]

Yeah, sorry I understand what you mean now. You make a good point. I thought you were saying the AoK:TC MIDIs = AoK MIDIs.

However I'm pretty sure I read somewhere that the MIDIs were included for reeeaaaaalllly slow computers (even by their standards back then) that would have trouble simply playing back pre-rendered (or whatever the term is) music. Remeber RedBook Audio is its own encoding too, just like MP3s. It's not like a vinyl record where the needle just skims over the grooves and the music comes out naturally from the vibrations (seriously, next time you are near a record player, turn off the speakers/amps so that its just the turntable and needle working. Then put your ear next to the needle going over the record and you will faintly be able to hear the music!).

The MIDIs are like the digital equivalent of the record player. The computer just has to go over the musical instructions and generate the required sounds. The redbook audio is more like the MP3s because the computer has to decode the stuff and actually process the real music, not just instructions on how to make the music.

It's like sheet mucic vs the sound the sheet music makes when its played. Anyone can look over a sheet of music and understand it and play it (if you know an instrument), but listening to the music being played, then trying to copy it just based on the sound is a whole new story.

[This message has been edited by anterior2 (edited 05-04-2013 @ 06:18 PM).]

I'm sorry, but your statements are wrong. Audio CD doesn't have encoding. Encoding means compression with a codec (what mp3 is), sound from Audio CD is uncommpressed (PCM, 44.1Khz, 16bit). This is a HUGE difference from mp3.

Furthermore, CD-ROMs didn't use DAE (Digital audio extraction) back then, instead they were connected with a cable to the sound card. So they didn't require CPU processing power (confirmation here and here).

The original AOE Readme file points out that "Music is played from the disc and has a slight impact on game performance" - "slight" on very old PC - Pentium 90 Mhz was the minimum requirement. BUT it also says the same for terrain sounds which are played from HDD. So it must be true for any audio (including midi, which is also generated by the sound card) - that means that playing with no sound was best.

I don't know why they choose to also include midi, but it wasn't because of CPU requirement (midi also takes processing power - check here). May be because of CD-ROM speed requirement (the Readme file says recommended CD-ROM speed 4x, while my first CD-ROM was 4x in 1999).

MP3 was surely out of the question in 1997. First of all, mp3 wasn't so well known or popular until 1999. And second - compression used in mp3 is quite complex and decoding back to uncompressed audio takes a lot of processing power (by 1997 standards). Pentium 90 Mhz would have difficulty playing mp3 on itself, let alone with an entire game at the same time.
That's why they didn't include mp3 as in-game music for AOE2 (only AOM in late 2002).

[This message has been edited by aoe_scout (edited 05-05-2013 @ 01:28 AM).]

I'm sorry, but your statements are wrong. Audio CD doesn't have encoding. Encoding means compression with a codec (what mp3 is), sound from Audio CD is uncommpressed (PCM, 44.1Khz, 16bit). This is a HUGE difference from mp3.

Furthermore, CD-ROMs didn't use DAE (Digital audio extraction) back then, instead they were connected with a cable to the sound card. So they didn't require CPU processing power (confirmation here and here).

I stand corrected it seems.

MP3 was surely out of the question in 1997. First of all, mp3 wasn't so well known or popular until 1999. And second - compression used in mp3 is quite complex and decoding back to uncompressed audio takes a lot of processing power (by 1997 standards). Pentium 90 Mhz would have difficulty playing mp3 on itself, let alone with an entire game at the same time.
That's why they didn't include mp3 as in-game music for AOE2 (only AOM in late 2002).

As we have discussed, .mp3 was used in AoK. I'm not sure what format the terrain sounds in AoE1 were, but I'm pretty sure they were .wavs. Are .wav files encoded or taxing on old computers?

Yes, they are wav files. All game sounds are wav files, but only terrain sounds are separate files, the rest are packed inside sounds.drs. I forgot to mention, wav files are also uncompressed and shouldn't be very taxing.

What I meant about AOK was that they didn't include mp3 as music while you are playing, when computer resources are needed, only for menus before\after the game.

Ah, I see now. I think this thread is finished, everything is answered.

WOWOWOWOOOWOWOWOWWOWOW

Sorry, I am re-opening this thread because I found THIS!

It is the RoR midi files played through the same synth that Stephen Rippy supposedly used. He discovered that Rippy must have used another synth extensively too, because there are effects used that are not on it.

Anyway, skip foward to 1:35 and 2:20, the music sounds absolutely beutiful! And it is MIDI! The very same MIDI that sounds kinda drab when played in game. It is really amazing to hear the music exactly (sort of) as Rippy intended all those years ago.

ALSO: 23:12, epic marrimba that you don't quite hear normally. And 26:40 sounds futuristic actually!

A bigger Find: THIS IS NOT IN THE MIDI SOUNDSET!

[This message has been edited by anterior2 (edited 05-23-2013 @ 10:39 PM).]

Interesting finding. It's very close to the original, some parts/instruments are exactly the same as CD audio, but some are still worse (for example the main screen music in the beginning and last part of the game music - after 29:00). About the effect in 1:35, IMO it shouldn't sound like that, it's a faulty representation of another effect.

Your last finding is nothing new (sorry to disappoint you) - this is the music that sounds when you play the Credits in ROR (Menu - About - Credits), it's only CD audio. I just forgot to mention it before, but I've listened to it many times.

I think the midi was simplified a lot before releasing it as .midi files - less instruments, some instruments were replaced with other more common variants (or something like that), some were removed. You may like some parts more, but that's not the way it supposed to sound.

In the end - the way Stephen & David Rippy wanted the music to sound is the way they recorded it in CD Audio - that's the original music, no doubt about it.

[This message has been edited by aoe_scout (edited 05-24-2013 @ 03:03 AM).]

In the end - the way Stephen & David Rippy wanted the music to sound is the way they recorded it in CD Audio - that's the original music, no doubt about it

Except the MIDIs were released first with the trials, but whatever lol. I agree the CD audio is objectively better, there is no doubt about that!