i dont get it

It looks interesting. But more effort should be put in towards remarking the units, techs, buildings. I also wonder how the god selection will work.

Been visiting their website for a week or so. I am quite excited about it. I am not a fan of the aom gameplay, but the ror remake on aom engine sounds really cool!

Interesting, Elephants with Heka Gigantes attack.

It seems very familiar, almost asif its AoM. What changes does this make to Age of Myths and Rise of Rome? I wouldn't play a fusion of chinese checkers and checkers if it didn't really introduce something awesome.
so what is it?

I'm just guessing, but I expect he'll turn the idols into cards that do special things, or just plain remove them.

[This message has been edited by local boi (edited 03-24-2012 @ 08:01 PM).]

Forgot I already made a post.

Full unit list
Full Map lsit
And much more has been posted on the website, if you look on the frontpage of the official site you wills ee a few links to information on the game.

"It looks interesting. But more effort should be put in towards remarking the units, techs, buildings. I also wonder how the god selection will work."

God selection is civilizations now.

Minor gods are called eras and there will still be two per civ. One will be members only (free to play always once you have the game) the second will be unlocked in premium mode and will change once every 4 months to keep the civilizations constantly changing.

The tech tree hasn't been posted yet, but it is a lot different from AoM's. The game plays more like RoR than AoM, just uses a heavily modded version of AoMs game engine.

[This message has been edited by layz (edited 05-03-2012 @ 05:35 AM).]

You got an inteersting game there. I'd like to try it, someday.

[This message has been edited by Suppiluliuma (edited 05-04-2012 @ 10:20 AM).]

Not quite sure I like it! What stands our for me in AOE compared to its brothers is the unique feel you get with moving the units on the map! They feel more realistic than the others!

The creators are planning a P2P version, which is highly illegal.

I support the F2P version though

I have showed Basse why he is wrong. He just wants something handed to him. That is not the way the world works.

I have read the EULA myself before I even started the coding. There is completely nothing illegal about it and I made sure by reading the whole eula first.


For someone to say so means one of two things :
1.) They do not realize how my payment system works.
2.) They did not read the EULA themselves.
Read the EULA then look at my payment system, nothing illegal whatsoever, the EULA itself actually says it is LEGAL.


Anyways here's some more info :

Every single unit, the trees, the buildings, the animals. Everything has been altered in attack, hp, armor, cost, movement speed, train times, build limit of how many you can make, pop limit, etc.

90% of technologies that were even passed over do not function the same.

Every single unit, building, trees, ground, water, that has been passed over has been touched up graphically, or completely redesigned (except for modeling).

Almost everything has been renamed to better suite the remake of RoR.

I'd also go as far as to say most of the units in this game weren't in AoM. The ones that you think were in AoM do not even function anything like they did in AoM except a couple of them, and even those function differently.

What you see on the surface in an AoM context, is not what is really in the game or is what you think is happening.

Every single map has been remade to have different living conditions and to be about 4 times larger to allow you to paint the map.

There is also other things in this game that make it unlike any Age of Empires game that was ever created. Normal units special attacks, houses being able to garrison units and train militias, farm alternates to be more historically accurate, elite units, and human soldiers other than archers having pierce attacks are just naming a few of these things.

Now 30 second clips of most maps :
http://www.youtube.com/user/ThronesofTime

[This message has been edited by layz (edited 05-05-2012 @ 05:11 AM).]

You are charging for a mod to a game that you do not hold copyright over, without the consent of the copyright owner.

It is microsoft's copyright, not yours, and you cannot profit from it because you don't own it/have consent. You have stated that it is UNOFFICIAL.

There may be nothing in the EULA banning it, but the LAW still bans it.


Imagine me squatting in your house running a fruit shop out of your garage while you are away on a holiday. That's basically what you are doing.

[This message has been edited by anterior2 (edited 05-05-2012 @ 06:04 AM).]

I am not charging for a mod.

Ask yourselves these questions.

Does Microsoft own or have anything to do with Thronesoftime.com?

Does Microsoft own or have anything to do with PvPNet Accounts that Thronesoftime.com makes through thier website?

Can Microsoft control the sale of these PvPNet Accounts that they have nothing to do with?


When you buy one of these accounts that has nothing to do with microsoft, the coding and cd of the game comes for FREE. Yes, it comes for FREE, all you do is buy the PvPNet account to get access to the members area to have access to updates (that are free), forums, and members areas... and the game comes with that account for FREE so you can play it.

Nothing illegal to see here. You are looking at this from the wrong angle. The EULA states very clearly. You can mod the game and give away the scripts for free. That is exactly what I am doing ONCE you buy acess to the MEMBERS area. You NEVER buy the game you buy a PvPNet ACCOUNT to have access to updates (that are free), forums, and members areas.

I don't need permission from Microsoft to sell something that I make through my website that has nothing to do with them (PvPNet Account).


Now here's another explanation on flipped perspectives.

http://s15.postimage.org/4qgt65zs9/CONTEXT.gif

What do you see in that image? Just a huskarl with a different name right?

What I see is a unit that throws axes and also attacks with melee damage. While I got you looking at that take a close look at all his stats notice anything unusual? He runs faster than AoM's cavalry (The maps are four times BIGGER). Now go ahead and check the rest of his stats.. Anything else? Yea, there's a lot more than what meets the surface if you are trying to look at this and think what is in AoM is the same as what is in here.


You see this game as a mod. Really it is nothing like a simple mod, this is very much more complex than a small mod, it is entirely a new game.



On the subject of it being illegal, you cannot flip this into microsofts favor.. Why? Because they do not own the accounts that I am selling. The coding is being given away for free on the purchase of an account to have access to updates, forums, and members areas. The EULA says that is perfectly fine.


However on a marketing point of view you CAN flip it into microsofts favor as some people who do not have aom might buy the game to play this one once they hear about it.

To that above statement you might be saying whatever, but I am fully aware that once people play it, there is no doubts to have about it, other people will want to play it too once they hear some of the details from other peoples point of view.


I would just call it Thrones of Time, but it is better to let people know what they are getting EXACTLY. It is also better for search engines to have the other titles posted everywhere. While it is an RoR Remake using AoM's game engine and plays more like RoR than it does AoM. It is still very different from both games VERY DIFFERENT. More similar to RoR though than AoM, even though it uses AoM's engine.

[This message has been edited by layz (edited 05-05-2012 @ 06:53 AM).]

So when I buy AoM, I get the game for free? I only buy the Ensemble Online account thingy? No, that is not how it works

I don't see why you are even arguing. It's like Heaven Games would charge for the mod packs available as downloads for the games here. Which actually is Microsoft property. Microsoft owns everything you do with their games. You say that all you sell is thos throne of times pvp account, that means this mod is free of charge and anyone can download it (since it's microsoft property and basically just a mod of their original game, using same engine, same graphics etc.)

Some quotes from the EULA I got with aoe (I don't have aom installed atm):

- Limitations on Reverse Engineering, Decompilation, and Disassembly. You
may not reverse engineer, decompile, or disassemble the SOFTWARE PRODUCT,
except and only to the extent that such activity is expressly permitted by
applicable law notwithstanding this limitation.

4. COPYRIGHT. All title and copyrights in and to the SOFTWARE PRODUCT
(including but not limited to any images, photographs, animations, video,
audio, music, text, and "applets" incorporated into the SOFTWARE PRODUCT),
the accompanying printed materials, and any copies of the SOFTWARE PRODUCT
are owned by Microsoft or its suppliers. The SOFTWARE PRODUCT is protected
by copyright laws and international treaty provisions. Therefore, you must
treat the SOFTWARE PRODUCT like any other copyrighted material except that
you may install the SOFTWARE PRODUCT on a single computer provided you keep
the original solely for backup or archival purposes. You may not copy the
printed materials accompanying the SOFTWARE PRODUCT.

If this "Throne of time" account you buy does not grant you any files or anything, just an account. Then what sort of account? PvP you say? How will people use this "mod" to play PvP otherwise than GameRanger or Ensemble Online (not sure about the name)?

If you pretty much just sell an account for your homepage I am sorry for the misunderstanding. But as far as I understand, you try to sell a modified version of the game Microsoft owns, without any agreements with microsoft. If you have been allowed by microsoft to sell your and their products, then I am sorry again, since then you are fully legitimated do sell your product.

EDIT: I carefully read your post (again) and noticed something...

When you buy one of these accounts that has nothing to do with microsoft, the coding and cd of the game comes for FREE. Yes, it comes for FREE

You are literally pirating their game, giving it away for free?

HeavenGames Code of Conduct:

Pirated Materials, Cracks, Multiplayer Hacks, Keys, and Key-Generators

“Piracy” is the illegal copying and/or distribution of copyrighted content including, but not limited to, games, software, music, movies, pictures, ROMs, abandon-ware, and leaked software. “Cracks” are programs that disable copy-protection technology; “Multiplayer Hacks” are any programs, patches, files, modifications or information exposure cheats that allow a player to gain an unfair advantage over other human opponents in a multiplayer game; a “Key” is a combination of numbers and letters that is required for software installation and sometimes used to validate users for online play; and “Key-Generators” are programs that generate valid Keys.

You may not encourage, post in support of, link to, or discuss activities, methods, and/or techniques involving piracy, cracks, multiplayer hacks, keys and key-generators. In addition, the following are grounds for moderator action on your post and/or account:

Seeking help to create cracks, multiplayer hacks and key-generators
Seeking missing files that are supplied with installation CD(s)
Admitting to possess pirated materials, cracks, multiplayer hacks and key-generators
Admitting to distribute pirated materials, cracks, multiplayer hacks, keys and key-generators
Admitting to the use of cracks, multiplayer hacks and key-generators
Uploading any such files to HeavenGames sites

Generally breaking this rule will result in an instant permanent ban. However you may be given a warning for a first offence if, in our opinion, you are a new forumer who doesn’t understand why this is such a strict rule – this will be explained to you; any subsequent offences will result in a permanent ban.

[This message has been edited by Basse (edited 05-05-2012 @ 07:30 AM).]

"If you pretty much just sell an account for your homepage I am sorry for the misunderstanding."


I don't see how there is a misunderstanding in the first place after what I just wrote.

That is all I am selling, yes.

Once you buy access to my members area only part of my site (PvPNet account).

Then you get the game (coding) and updates for free from that point in time.


Pirating? No I bought Aom twice, both the originals when it was released and the gold version not too long ago.

Modding does not equal pirating.

In the Eula it states you are allowed to mod the game and give away your mods for free. If this wasn't the case and that wasn't allowed there would be no mods on aom heaven, now would there?


There should be no arguement on whether this is legal or not, because it clearly is. I am not trying to resell copies of aom illegally. I am doing the opposite and that is encouraging people to buy the original game legally to play my unofficial expansion.

[This message has been edited by layz (edited 05-05-2012 @ 07:46 AM).]

I don't see how there is a misunderstanding in the first place after what I just wrote.

That is all I am selling, yes.

But you give away the game for free...

Once you buy access to my members area only part of my site (PvPNet account).

Then you get the game (coding) and updates for free from that point in time.

Pirating? No I bought Aom twice, both the originals when it was released and the gold version not too long ago.

I am confused, you say you give away the game for free, but not pirating it?

Modding does not equal pirating.

In the Eula it states you are allowed to mod the game and give away your mods for free. If this wasn't the case and that wasn't allowed there would be no mods on aom heaven, now would there?

I know, I support modding and I did some modding for aoe1 and aoe2 before too. As long as you do not sell the mod, it's fine.

I am confused, you say you give away the game for free, but not pirating it?

I don't see how you can be confused. Are you not reading what I said thoroughly through?

You buy AoM legally.

I am not giving away, redistributing, or trying to sell illegal copies of the official/original AoM.

If I were to Sell AoM it would be reselling legal copies sealed in the box.

I am giving away my "Mod" for free. The edited version. Not the actual original version of AoM. My mod isn't just a mod it is safe to call it a game.

That is not pirating by a longshot, and I don't even see how you could be confused with what I am writing other than trying to cause a problem. Youa re also taking quotes from me instead of quoting the whole thing ina sense of taking things out of context, well you forgot this part.

I am doing the opposite and that is encouraging people to buy the original game legally to play my unofficial expansion.

This is not just a "mod" like what you have done. This is pretty much the equivalent to everything that's ever been posted on aom heaven (in terms of time to make) combined. And more.

[This message has been edited by layz (edited 05-05-2012 @ 07:55 AM).]

I am giving away my "Mod" for free. The edited version. Not the actual original version of AoM. My mod isn't just a mod it is safe to call it a game.

There's the answer I was looking for... To be honest, I didn't know this was what you were saying. My apologies

You should make it more clear on your website that the mod itself is FREE, and not the game itself.

The website is very clear.

It says you must first purchase AoM to be able to play Thrones of Time. Both the gold Edition and Original edition will work fine.

You quoted that in your email.

You just have to read all the texts that are posted on the site (There's a lot of it but everything is explained there).


http://thronesoftime.com/index.php?route=information/information&information_id=54

To play Thrones of Time you must already have a legitimate copy of Age of mythology & Age of Mythology : The Titans Expansion. If you do not have one we will sell them in our store shortly, and also have them in donation packages as a gift for donating to keep the community running.

That needs to be rewritten. See if I were to give away the game ina package (one of the higher priced ones) it would be a legal copy that I myself have paid for, sealed in the box.

This is saying that you must first buy the game and ahve it installed, to then be able to install thrones of time. This is going to be rewritten. As far as reselling them goes, these would also be like me being an ebay seller of official copies sealed in the box. I haven't gotten to that stage yet because I am waiting for players to start playing before I invest money into copies of AoM to resell/give away. There is nothing wrong with that and it actually is a good thing as far as microsoft should be concerned.


That text has now been changed to :

To play Thrones of Time you must already have a legitimate copy of Age of Mythology & Age of Mythology : The Titans Expansion or Age of Mythology Gold Edition installed on your computer.
If you do not have one we might sell official sealed copies of them in our store shortly after we start gaining support, and may also have them in the more expensive first time buyer PvPNet Premium Account packages for supporting Thrones of Time admins to keep the community running.

So if someone were to buy say the PvPNet Premium Account with like 8 months of premium membership (which is higher priced than just buying 1 month)... That package would come with a free copy of AoM. The people that don't have AoM already might be cheaper for them to buy AoM this way than to buy a PvPNet account and AoM seperatly.


Me buying a sealed copy of the game and giving it to a friend for christmas does not = pirating.















Below is kind of important please read that, and please pay close attention to whats being said.


















Take into account they made 60 dollars a copy for selling a minor amount of coding/modeling/texturing off of titans expansion. I have rewritten/written the whole protox from line one to unit #1010. I have also rewritten the whole techtree. Among editing many other files. For a pathetic limited time of $25 for an account to play this.

IDK about what you think, but rewriting every single thing in techtree/protox alone is a LOT of headaches. You have NO IDEA how long and how much thinking/planning/designing this took. Making a small expansion for a game is nothing like rewriting one completely in terms of amount of work.

The amount of wood/food/gold/hp/armor/texture each mine/huntable/herbable/tree has.

Every SINGLE UNITS armor/run speed/pop limit/damage types/name/tooltip text/los/attack range/functions/limit on how many you can make/what they counter/texture/anim/everything else that a unit has/can do/lookslike/etc.

Every single thing in the game pretty much ebing retextured to look better.

Every single buildings texture touched up or changed, along with armor/damage/name/tooltip/los/attack range/functions text.

Every single "god" changed into a civilization and changed everything into what units can be made from which civilization. Also changed the way each one functions to be very unique from eachother.

50+ Maps recoded to be how I wanted them to be and different from one another.

[This message has been edited by layz (edited 05-05-2012 @ 10:38 AM).]

I will add my responses into the quote in bold.

Quoted from Potential Pirate:

I am not charging for a mod. Thrones of time is a mod right?

Ask yourselves these questions.

Does Microsoft own or have anything to do with Thronesoftime.com? That website hosts thrones of time the mod, which MICROSOFT OWNS THE COPYRIGHT TO (the engine)

Does Microsoft own or have anything to do with PvPNet Accounts that Thronesoftime.com makes through thier website? I must admit, no

Can Microsoft control the sale of these PvPNet Accounts that they have nothing to do with? If you have violated copyright, yes


When you buy one of these accounts that has nothing to do with microsoft, the coding and cd of the game comes for FREE. Yes, it comes for FREE, all you do is buy the PvPNet account to get access to the members area to have access to updates (that are free), forums, and members areas... and the game comes with that account for FREE so you can play it.


So basically we pay YOU for a pirated version of the game?

Nothing illegal to see here I beg to differ. You are looking at this from the wrong angle. The EULA states very clearly. You can mod the game and give away the scripts for free. That is exactly what I am doing ONCE you buy acess to the MEMBERS areasee, we still have to pay to access this "free" mod. You NEVER buy the game you buy a PvPNet ACCOUNT to have access to updates (that are free), forums, and members areas.but the account you buy is needed for the mod

I don't need permission from Microsoft to sell something that I make through my website that has nothing to do with them (PvPNet Account).you do if you sell the PvP net account as a means of distributing a supposedly free mod


Now here's another explanation on flipped perspectives.

http://s15.postimage.org/4qgt65zs9/CONTEXT.gif

What do you see in that image? Just a huskarl with a different name right?

What I see is a unit that throws axes and also attacks with melee damage. While I got you looking at that take a close look at all his stats notice anything unusual? He runs faster than AoM's cavalry (The maps are four times BIGGER). Now go ahead and check the rest of his stats.. Anything else? Yea, there's a lot more than what meets the surface if you are trying to look at this and think what is in AoM is the same as what is in here.So basically this is just a total conversion mod. Get over it, there are heaps already made.


You see this game as a modexactly. Really it is nothing like a simple mod, this is very much more complex than a small mod, it is entirely a new game.i.e. a total conversion mod



On the subject of it being illegal, you cannot flip this into microsofts favor.. Why? Because they do not own the accounts that I am selling. The coding is being given away for free on the purchase of an account to have access to updates, forums, and members areas. The EULA says that is perfectly fine.

So its ok if one person buys the account for the "free" mod then gives away the mod free to anyone even if they didn't buy the account on your website?

However on a marketing point of view you CAN flip it into microsofts favor as some people who do not have aom might buy the game to play this one once they hear about it.

To that above statement you might be saying whatever, but I am fully aware that once people play it, there is no doubts to have about it, other people will want to play it too once they hear some of the details from other peoples point of view.its called "word of mouth", no need for 2 paragraphs on it


I would just call it Thrones of Time, but it is better to let people know what they are getting EXACTLY. It is also better for search engines to have the other titles posted everywhere. While it is an RoR Remake using AoM's game engine and plays more like RoR than it does AoMthis is not a proper sentence. It is still very different from both games VERY DIFFERENT. More similar to RoR though than AoM, even though it uses AoM's engine.yes, you have mentioned the fact that its a mod several times.

"If you pretty much just sell an account for your homepage I am sorry for the misunderstanding."


I don't see how there is a misunderstanding in the first place after what I just wrote.

That is all I am selling, yes.

Once you buy access to my members area only part of my site (PvPNet account).

Then you get the game (coding) and updates for free from that point in time.


Pirating? No I bought Aom twice, both the originals when it was released and the gold version not too long ago.

Modding does not equal pirating.

In the Eula it states you are allowed to mod the game and give away your mods for free. If this wasn't the case and that wasn't allowed there would be no mods on aom heaven, now would there?


There should be no arguement on whether this is legal or not, because it clearly is. I am not trying to resell copies of aom illegally. I am doing the opposite and that is encouraging people to buy the original game legally to play my unofficial expansion.

So a purchased account is needed for the mod? Then it's not truely free is it? By the way, you need to buy a copy of the game for every person you give it free to, otherwise yes you are pirating.

I am giving away my "Mod" for free. The edited version. Not the actual original version of AoM. My mod isn't just a mod it is safe to call it a game.

Oh. You could have said that earlier. So why not upload it to the heavengames downloads section then so this totally free mod can be easily accessed?

Take into account they made 60 dollars a copy for selling a minor amount of coding/modeling/texturing off of titans expansion. I have rewritten/written the whole protox from line one to unit #1010. I have also rewritten the whole techtree. Among editing many other files. For a pathetic limited time of $25 for an account to play this.

AH-HA! Gotcha with that! I rest my case. You are still charging for the only means to access this mod. A PURCHASE IS NECESSARY FOR THIS FREE MOD, AND THEREFORE IT IS NOT FREE!

By the way sorry phat and supplil for the quad-post. I didn't want to make a monster-post tho, I hope you can understand.

[This message has been edited by anterior2 (edited 05-05-2012 @ 08:55 PM).]

I was considering merging this thread and 'RoR Remake (Using AoM Game Engine)'. But before doing so I want to know if you think that would be cool, or not.

"AH-HA! Gotcha with that! I rest my case. You are still charging for the only means to access this mod. A PURCHASE IS NECESSARY FOR THIS FREE MOD, AND THEREFORE IT IS NOT FREE!

By the way sorry phat and supplil for the quad-post. I didn't want to make a monster-post tho, I hope you can understand."

Doesn't matter what you say. The mod is free and you didn't get anyone.

The PvPNet account is what is up for sale.

The CD itself is free.

Yes there is money involved but you do not buy the game/cd.

Therefore, that part is free. Access to my members area is not.

I will give the game to the people who pay to help keep my website and community running as a community (and fuel the tournaments). I think that is fair. They will also be my motivation for updates. You know I have to sell nearly 1k accounts to make back what I didn't during my coding that I took off for?


Aside from that even if I were just selling the game hypothetically you should be expecting to pay near $60 to play a game like this if microsoft were to release it. That's all that needs to be said really. Yes it is up there in quality, and no I will not give away the accounts. No reason to beat this dead horse because you won't win.

It's so different that if the buildings were remodeled and some of the units, you probably wouldn't even recognize it as aom while playing it. You'd think they had done release AoE4. This is what I felt they did with AoEO anyways, reused a game engine. Chancers are, you have played two games using the same game engine before and you haven't even realized it -- that's how different one game engine can be from itself. Guess what? Models aren't on the top of my priority list, I will find a modeler to do that later during beta once people are supporting the game. Right now I'm doing all the important stuff, and the majority of it is already done.


However if you do happen to manage to play this sometime, youa re going to wish there was a delete feature on these forums, or you will go back and edit all your negative comments calling it a mod and what not. That's how confident I am in this game, as it has surpassed my exectations long ago, still not where I want it at now, but better than I thought I could do when I first got into the coding not sure if I could do what I want or not, while I'm still having a little trouble with just one or two things that may not even be possible to code, I think it is but was told it isn't, it's not very important at all just something I want, I want the camera to zoom out more than normal, and I want to have the code for changing tech speeds with an upgrade, halving the population of units I don't think worked either (this is in ror), I'd also like to disable myth units in conquest mode to make it the ror version of supremecy.

I was considering merging this thread and 'RoR Remake (Using AoM Game Engine)'. But before doing so I want to know if you think that would be cool, or not.

Well IDK they were way different, if you do try to shorten out some of the garbage that was in this one. Or just delete this one.

Oh yes.. The roman military, quite a nice setup, yes?

[This message has been edited by layz (edited 05-06-2012 @ 07:22 AM).]

I don't think microsoft is going to fall for the free mod, but payed account thing. I'm not a lawyer, but I expect that when they find out about this mod you might get a problem. Nobody is going to pay 25 dollars just for the account, they are basically buying the mod by taking a side step. So in fact they do pay for the mod.

Companies and people have been sued for less. Look at the whole apple, samsung issue. You are making money with the work of others, by law the original owner deserves a share of what you make.