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Topic Subject: A Basic Spanish Fast Fortress
posted 02-16-06 11:06 PM EDT (US)   
This is the basic Spanish FF, the bottom-line Spanish strategy which most others spread off of. It is rather straightforward, so I won't ramble too much. It is not set in stone, of course, and may not be the best possible, but it works nicely. Basically, you want to get to the fortress age as fast as possible and hit your opponent (hopefully still in colonial) with stronger units and cannon, acquired mainly by shipments (so an economy is not as necessary). Here we go.

Discovery Age
Send all villies except one or two to hunt. Have the others get the crates, starting with food, then wood, then gold. Have one build a house, then make all go to hunting, along with all newly-created vils. Make sure, as usual to scare huntables toward your TC. Now is when you make a tough decision: ATP or no ATP. If you are on HV lv25, then you can use the nice Advanced Trading Post to get yourself a nice income of XP, useful for when you get up to Fortress. However, if you don't ship ATP, that means you will ship 3 villies, boosting your economy and improving your Fortress time. It is a trade off between speed and power. Of course, you have other options down the road...
Anyway, you want to age up with around 13 villies, taking into account if you ship the 3 vil card. When you get the 800 food, hit the button. If you are below lv59, get the 200 gold and an outpost politician. If you are over lv60, then you can get the 500 food politician, with will cut down on your time. You may be able to get up with as low as 10 vils this way, I am not entirely sure (I don't have a lv50 Spanish HC). Shift 1-2 (if going with the 200 gold guy [if you started with 100 gold, then lucky you, you don't need to mine at all. ]) or 3-5 (if going with the 500 food guy) vils to gold.

Colonial Age
As soon as you hit colonial, ship the 700 gold. You should have 100/300 gold collected by the time it comes. Move a bunch of guys to go collect it. You want to hit up as soon as it is collected. You should have the 1200 food. Age up with either the 4 hussars or the 10 pikemen. Personally, I prefer the pikemen because they raze buildings excellently. Combined with the age3 14 Pikemen card, you can take down a TC in no time. Move a whole lot of guys to wood. You're gonna need houses to support your colonial army. You also might want to put up a church, as it gives you some nice options. Keep about 3 vils on food to maintain vil production once you hit Fortress, about 7 on wood to get houses (and a church) up, and all the rest on gold to give you some fortress options. IF you are shooting for mercantilism once you get up to fortress, I suggest shipping the 600 gold card while aging. That should give you just about the right amount once you get up to fortress.

Fortress Age
Finally, what you have been shooting for. Hopefully it will be between 6:30 and 7:00 right now, and you are ready to get some nice shipments. Now is when your options come up, so be prepared to make some decisions of your own. Hehe.
Option 1 : Mercantilism: You did not go the ATP route, and you shipped 600 gold while aging up. ASAP, research Mercantilism from your church. This should give you 5-7 shipments. That means 2/3 Falconets, 6/10 Lancers (with optional Lancer Infantry-boost card), 10/14/24 Pikemen, and enough left over for the 5 and 4 vil shipments to get your economy back on track, or perhaps a fort to defend. Unfortunatly, it will be a while before you can get any mercs, because you exhausted the majority of your resources on Mercantilism.
Option 2 : Mercenaries: An early ATP helps with this. Hopefully, you shipped the 600 gold while aging, and soon after you get up to fort, you should have the gold for some Mercenaries. Highlanders are my personal favorite, because they work so well with cannons, but Strads and Swiss Pikes are good too. Due to the ATP, you should have some more shipments, so get the Cannons, some Lancers, (if you got the Highlanders or Swiss Pikes) or some Pikemen (if you got the Stradiots). Also, missionaries are nice if you have a church up. They work very nicely in healing injured mercs. Get more for your money!
Option 3 : Miscellaneous: This can be done with or without an early ATP. Instead of getting mercs or mercantilism, you take a more traditional route and put up a stable/barracks and do things the old fashioned way. This gives flexibility, because you can get Lancers/Dragoons (odds are the enemy won't have any artly and lancers are better than hussars for killing light infantry, so hussars aren't too useful) or Muskets/Rods/Skrims. You still want to ship some Falconets and Lancers/Pikemen.

Try to keep the battle in Fortress. If your enemy hits industrial, attack NOW. He spent 3200 resources and can't benefit from them for at least 30 seconds. Hit him before he can get factories up or ship lotsa units/mercs. You only get one factory, so you are at a disadvantage in Industrial fighting. Hit in fortress and stay in fortress, that is Spain's dominate timeframe.

If you are rushed: Hold in there. You definitely want to put the Age2 8 Pikes card in your deck (especially against Germany). It's a shame that Spain doesn't get the 8 crossbows card, but you should be able to stop most rushes. Also, don't be afraid to use Minutemen. If it keeps you TC standing, then by all means it is worth it. Get to fortress ASAP, and hit him with lancers and cannon. Lancers are amazing against almost all colonial units, and your 10 pikes from aging up can handle cav. Your goal is to hold out long enough to get to fortress, and then hold out for a little longer to get some shipments. If you expect a colonial rush, by all means, slow down your FF! Get some outposts and build a small army. Natives work very nicely for this, because you don't need to spend money for housing. That also fits in with the ATP strategy.

Nice tips: If you are getting attacked by grenadiers: build war dogs! It's amazing how well these little guys stand up to the artilleryish foot soldiers. I got owned once as Russia from those doggies .
Always put pikemen in cover mode when attacking buildings. They take less damage and throw faster (albeit weaker), but it's worth it.
Lancers are sweet. Not amazing, not OP, just sweet. Love them.
Market upgrades are nice. If you get a nice wood treasure or start with a market, be sure to get at least the beginning food upgrade. It's dirt cheap.
Get treasures! Train some extra dogs if needed. Spain can get those nice treasures earlier on, so do it.

I hope you liked it. Feel free to comment, criticize, complain, compare, contrast, condone (damn I don't even know what that means) or whatever.

Signing off,
~Syzygy


~Syz
Join the Revolution. www.awrev.com

[This message has been edited by Syzygy (edited 02-17-2006 @ 09:33 AM).]

Replies:
posted 02-16-06 11:35 PM EDT (US)     1 / 18  
Nice guide. Looks like a VERY solid FF.


PS. didnt know war dogs r good against grens! great tip!


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[This message has been edited by SLEAK (edited 02-16-2006 @ 11:37 PM).]

posted 02-17-06 00:11 AM EDT (US)     2 / 18  
anything that goes into meele with a gren is usually good^^

Good guide. I do many similair things.

Another option:

Ship 700 wood as you age up (after 700 gold) . Plop down a rax/houses/any left over ATPS noone got/ect. From cards get 2 falconets, 10 rodeleors(or pikes if u prefer), 6 lancers. In the mean time make skirmishers (as many as you can). Attack early..ASAP once u have your lancers/falconets/skirms /rods (10 pikes age up works well for this). IF you can hit him fast enough your army > his regardless of what he has(even if he has 1 merc shipment).

posted 02-17-06 04:50 AM EDT (US)     3 / 18  
Good guide filled with some info I did not knew. Thanks!

I might add, that minutemen can save you when facing a rush.

posted 02-17-06 04:57 AM EDT (US)     4 / 18  
Very nice write-up

★★★★★
posted 02-17-06 05:38 AM EDT (US)     5 / 18  
you can send 3 villis and ATP and still have a shipment when you hit colonial. the xp you get from building to atp's and a house gives you a shipment.

Eso: scuzz

[This message has been edited by BloTo (edited 02-17-2006 @ 05:39 AM).]

posted 02-17-06 05:51 AM EDT (US)     6 / 18  
Yeah great guide this helps me a lot, i've been struggling to find a decent FF guide for spanish.

I never really thought about it, but yeah War dogs rule! 75 food only, and they can murder infantry if supported.

posted 02-17-06 08:48 AM EDT (US)     7 / 18  
Wow, never concidered the XP from the trading posts. That's a big deal. *can't wait to get to lv25* That 700w is good idea, especially with that extra shipments from the ATP.

Thanks for the comments.


~Syz
Join the Revolution. www.awrev.com
posted 02-17-06 11:33 AM EDT (US)     8 / 18  
I mean this most respectfully but....

Quote:

Always put pikemen in cover mode when attacking buildings. They take less damage and throw faster (albeit weaker), but it's worth it.


Why is it worth it to do this? and why do they throw faster? Way I see it, since they take both 50% less damage from ranged attack and have 50% less attack they die twice as slowly but take twice as long to do the same amount of damage, the only reason this would be good is if the siege attack remained unaffected or to keep the vills inside the TC longer since you pikes last longer. Could you or anyone else answer me on this one, thanks.


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posted 02-17-06 12:21 PM EDT (US)     9 / 18  

Quote:

Why is it worth it to do this? and why do they throw faster? Way I see it, since they take both 50% less damage from ranged attack and have 50% less attack they die twice as slowly but take twice as long to do the same amount of damage, the only reason this would be good is if the siege attack remained unaffected or to keep the vills inside the TC longer since you pikes last longer. Could you or anyone else answer me on this one, thanks

Its true they throw 2x faster but only do half the damage for each throw and have 50% ranged damage.
This mean:
normale mode: damage 2 in 2s with 2HP
Staggerd mode: damage 1 in 1s with 3HP
---> staggerd mode: does the same dammage in the same time BUT have 3/2 more HP this means that(when not replacing) the are better because they live longer and also the do more damage in uneven seconds (take 7s stag: 7 damage ;normal: 6 damage).

But they are slower in staggerd mode I think hgalf of normale mode.

(The numbers aren't right but its just so he understands)


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[This message has been edited by duidelijk (edited 02-17-2006 @ 12:21 PM).]

posted 02-17-06 12:37 PM EDT (US)     10 / 18  
Basically you deal the same amount of damage in the same amount of time, you just take half as much damage.

~Syz
Join the Revolution. www.awrev.com
posted 02-18-06 09:45 PM EDT (US)     11 / 18  
I always used to play booming games with other civs before I came to Spanish. So my strategy has evolved from boom and is not out-and-out FF, because I delay my FF by playing in this order:

1. 3 Settlers
2. Advanced Trading Post

Age up on about 17 Settlers

3. 5 Settlers
4. 700 Gold
5. 600 Gold

Age up (hit Fortress on about 10 minutes)

Swiss Pikes, 2 Falconets, Highlanders

--------------------------------

The above works OK-great against everyone EXCEPT GERMANS, where I often get into all sorts of trouble.

I'll have to try your strategy of missing out the 5 Settler card. For me this one has always been a must, but it seems that by playing 700 Golg you can Age up a whole 2 mins earlier - also the use of Mercantilism to get NORMAL units rather than ATPs+gold to get Mercs is something I hadn't considered at all.

So two new ideas to speed up the rush and change the army that comes out of it.

My one worry about playing 5-7 cards (which would make a nice army) is that they actually take rather a long time to arrive one by one. Possibly this loses much of the advantage you gained by playing 700 Gold and aging up on 7.00 mins rather than 10.00?..... Whereas 3 cards (Swiss Pikes, 2 Falconet, Highlanders) arrives in half the time. And by playing 5 Settlers you've got a much better Econ to sustain the attack.

Hmmm, will have to try. Thanks for posting anyway; much food for thought.

Oh, one last thing - I quite like the card that gives you one native shipment from every TP. If you're going the ATP route and get 3 or even better 4 native TP's then this can be really powerful.

[This message has been edited by Torqual (edited 02-18-2006 @ 09:47 PM).]

posted 02-19-06 01:47 AM EDT (US)     12 / 18  
Nice, this is pretty much how I do it (or I did when I played spanish more). My extra treat (thanks Ceres629) is to ship the 700 wood while fortressing and use it to build the barracks, then upgrade your 24+ pikemen to veteran status on the way to their towncenter. I've found that once you start aging, you can move everyone to gold, ship the wood. Gather the wood with 3-4 settlers, build barracks and as many houses as possible (you'll need them), and then move those 4 guys to wood to get the upgrade 200 wood you'll need). I then mercantilize with 1000 mined gold (~15 guys on gold from the time you start aging gets you there asap).

Mercantilism gives me 4 shipments (sometimes 5):
10 Pikemen (from aging)
2 Falconets
6 Lancers
5 Hussars
14 Pikemen

Once I've got the upgrade purchased for the pikemen, I put 2/3 of my settlers on wood, and 1/3 on food (roughly 6/12) so I can keep spamming pikemen and build the houses to support them.

It's unreal how fast 2 falconets + 24 vet pikemen can take down a barracks and then the TC. This all hits at about 9:30.

Just the pikemen (24 vets) can take down a TC in something like 24 seconds (maybe 27). 38.4seige x 24pikes/3 seconds is about 307seige/sec.

The 6 Lancers + 5 Hussars make an EXCELLENT support for your falconets. Your biggest problem will be French with 7 free skirms + 4 hussars + building fire when he ages. You HAVE to get your hussars/lancers on his skirms asap and often you'll just ignore his curs while they kill your falconets (in fact, sometimes against the French I ship 10 rods instead of the 2 falconets).

posted 02-19-06 12:51 PM EDT (US)     13 / 18  
Well, the basis of my strat has always been the "Fast," not so much the "Fortress" I usually get up to fortress around 7 min, with Pikes, Nets, and Lancers in thier base very soon after. I'll need to check out that 700 wood, as it could help with housing as well as extra pikes/maybe Xbows. And getting vet pikes would be great.
hmmm...
1 rax = 250 wood.
1 church = 250 wood.
That leaves me with just enough for a vet upgrade . I'll still need housing, though, but I really like this. *,gets 300w and 600w* *begs for 1 more lv up*

~Syz
Join the Revolution. www.awrev.com
posted 02-28-06 09:31 AM EDT (US)     14 / 18  
If you choose to ATP, when do you start building them? You must move some villagers from food to wood back in Discovery then?
posted 02-28-06 09:56 AM EDT (US)     15 / 18  
Looks really solid, but how does one put pikemen in cover mode?

Space for rent, or rather, off the market completely because of government imposed rent controls.
posted 04-01-06 12:19 PM EDT (US)     16 / 18  
well i have a little different spanish ff strat...

discovery age: 16 settlers all on food 1st shipment=3vills
while aging to 2nd age put 6 vills on wood. u can build a market but u dont have to...use 200G+ outpost to age

colonial age: get 700G, then 5 vills. age up as fast as possible to 3rd use 10 pikes politican.use ur gathered wood for 1 tp. save ur shipments.

fortress age: while aging up put all vills on gold besides 4 on wood and 4 on food for houses and vill production. get 2 falcs to ur outpost near his base(from age 2 politican).if hes still in col kill him with ur pikes+falcs. if he is in fortress age too send swiss pikes or highlanders next.now u can attack and u get stratiots+ the last merc shipment while attacking caus u get lots of gold. dont stop vill production so ur econ is still ok.it would be nice if any better spanish player tried this strat...ty

posted 05-14-06 08:10 PM EDT (US)     17 / 18  
Does anyone know where i can find a rec. game of a well executed spanish ff (post 1.06)? I can't find any good ones. I would really apreciate it if some one would tell me where to find one or post one.

Thnx Love hecter


ES0 NAME: Publius

Theres a fine line between insanity and craziness

posted 05-15-06 00:51 AM EDT (US)     18 / 18  
gamereplays.org or agesanctuary both have replays of expert spanish players

Eso: Otis_
PR: 32 / 1980 on cuetech
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