-.o
10:05...
Must you tempt me to play Ottomans?

Are you going to write down the build order or is this recording what you do every time. I dont really like watching recordings just for strats, more for watching experts n stuff.

Is this the standard ottoman fast industrial where you raid in age 3, send advanced church and cheap church and get to industrial with your 8 spahi - send 3 great bombards and buy yourself 15 jannies and 3 great bombards from the church?

Nicely done, though that guy didn't play it as well as he could have done I think.

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Negative, this is not the "Power Play". This is a true Fast Industrial using the church techs and the 3 age up Spahi/4 age up Abus Guns to provide emergency defense.

No raids in Fortress.

In this game I only got the 3 Bombards out to handle Pikes, Highlanders and Swiss pikes. I was about to get the 15 Jans out when the guy resigned. Which is why I messed up. Too much food and not enough wood. The 15 Jans were supposed to come out at the same time as the Bombards. I haven't optimised the Church tech Industrial yet.

If you don't wish to see the record, the build order I used was:

(Build TP)
3 villagers
(Age up with Outpost + 200 gold.)
700 gold
(Age up with 4 Abus Guns)
Cheaper church techs
1000 gold
(Eat all herdables)
(Age up with 3 Spahi)
Advanced Church

On maps other than Texas, I would get a Fort out before the cheaper church techs card.

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True. He was only ~1950 after all, and probably only got there by Spanish laming back in 1.05. You can tell 'cause he was stil doing the standard Spanish FF attack followed by Mercs.

[This message has been edited by Ender_Ward (edited 05-07-2006 @ 02:27 PM).]

AH HA!!!!! i knew that cheap church tech card wasnt worthless. i just started taking that thing out of my decks, now ill have to put it back...

Same here... I didn't think that it cheapens the advanced church techs too

I've only played two games of this and it's a whole lot of fun already. Though the people I played sucked, it gives me a whole lot of satisfaction to see 3 bombards blowing up 20 strelets at the same time at 12-ish.

Ender, by what time do you usually have the bombards out? What time for the jans? I often have a lot of spare time waiting on resources to come in for them... maybe I'm doing something wrong =\.

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Since you'd normally have the advanced church card arrive before you reach Industrial, you can have the Bombards out some 15-20 seconds after you got 1000 food. Which you should be able to gather most of the time while you age up.

I waited abit in that replay, and got 'em out about 30 seconds later, since I forgot that having sent the cheaper techs card and was waiting for 1500 food . Then it hit me ... "wait a minute, I already got the required resources!" ... and out came the Bombards just in time.

ender, i ahve also been using the ottoman fast industrial recently, ageing up at around 10, or sometimes 11 if i get spahis for some fortress raiding. I get 2 tps, so that i can ship 2 bombards when i age and get 3 more from the church. 5 bombards actualy own cavalry to a certain extent and the ageing spahis dont do too badly either. Of course when i can afford it i get the 15 jans from the church. Next i go on the offensive and ship 2 tcs and start to try and get an economy up. I have had pretty good success up until now especialy since i use a deck which looks loke a rush deck . I usualy use the quartermaster for age 2 tho, so i can get 2 tps instead of just one. If i am going for speed, ill go exiled prince to fortress. Its a cool strat, thanks for the idea of using the cheaper church techs for the advanced church ones, i didnt realise it effected it. Im off to watch your replay now (dribble)

Oh yeah one more thing ender: For otto FI, do you ever use double covered wagon or do you prefer to build both of your TCs? You gotta get a second and maybe a third TC out sometime...

FI should have the 2 covered wagon card.

How often are you able to pull this off in a legit game situation? I would think that most strats have them attacking you well before 1030 (usually before 9 mins) so it would be tough with 4 abus guns to defend against say... 20 pikes and 4 lancers (TC cant take cav down fast enough to save the abus even on the run). I would think this would only be viable against a civ like ports who do not FF attack too well.

This isnt a criticism im just wondering how often you can actually pull this off Thanks, as always, gj.

Well, what about aging up to to colonial age using the 500 Food crate politician? Get 700 food, ship in 700 gold. I managed to hit fotress (4 abus guns politician) at 6.30. So if you use exiled prince, you'll have a far greater result in your FI time. Won't ya agree?

P.S Havent' watch the replay yet. Hahaha, just commenting in getting a better FI time.

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I wanted to know too. I asked this question before in anothe forum. They just told me that no one would rush an ottoman. =.=''

[This message has been edited by Noformz (edited 05-08-2006 @ 10:35 AM).]

The question is what is the biggest contribution to your effort, you can either age up with the 200 Gold and tower politician, 500 food or 400 wood. Now in villie second, I think the tower and gold are better off if you feel you need that tower. Cause you will need to chop 250 woods and then build the tower if you get the 500 food shipment. To build the tower you will have to stop one villie from gathering food when the cart build the tower by itself. For the 500 food or 400 wood, lets look at it in villie seconds, (here I can be wrong, on my gathering speed. let me know !)

For the wood = 400/0.5 W/S = 800 villie seconds

For the food = 500/0.67 = 746.27 Villie seconds, so the wood seems to be better choice of the two, in strict villie seconds realtionship.

Now, what do you actually get from those ressources,

1. Tower and gold = you get anti raid defense on your second patch of huntable, wich you will need to have enough food to go fortress then industrial, and you dont have to dig 200 gold.

2. 400 Wood = you can build a second TP, wich would enable you more shipment, I think at least 1 more in age 3. That could be useful for the fort or another defensive shipment in age 3 while you are gathering the food for indu.

3. 500 food = your first and second patch of huntables,, are less expoloited by your food effort to get to age ASAP, since you wont need to get it from huntables, that is about it.

So for me, the tower and gold are 1st choice, but if you feel like you wont be raided (wich is almost never in one vs one) you should go 400 wood.

Last,

you will normally wait on your gold gatherer to finish the gold shipment to click fortress. If your 500 food is needed there, review your villie-ressource allocation.

Bah, people most certainly DO rush Ottomans. I lost two games yesterday, and to lesser opponents, because I stupidly completely neglected rush defenses. Then I wised up and started doing a delayed Fortress with powerful defenses (Abus and some Jans).

With the popularity of the Pike/Dopple/Crossbow/Uhlan rushes, or the Strelet/Cossack/Grenadier rushes all of a sudden, I don't think a pure FF is safe anymore against these strats.

So with the above changes, one's FI would be at 11-11:30 in time. But not nearly as vulnerable.

Or if one does not suspect a rush, but expects a quick FF attack, the FI should be delayed by sending 5 Spahi and/or Fort needs to come out. You're basically doing a modified "Power Play" then, with Abus Guns age up instead of Hussars, and with the Outpost and Spahi being used for defense (unless you age with 400 wood). Normally when you do this, on maps with herdables, you hit Industrial at 10:45-11:15.

By the way, on maps where you were unable to collect atleast 4-6 herdables, it's probably unwise to attempt a FI. Thankfully, though, maps with collectable herdables are plenty.

Did this on Texas with Exciled Prince, I got a time of 9:16 :P
Against a FF this would probably work, since the fastest FFers will only attack at maybe 8:50 and your base will not be totally anhillated that fast.
Although if you suspect a rush, just don't do it, never ever.

hey ender, i usally do a brit FI with rockets and a musk meat shield, but this look pretty good. i used to play otto alot mainly rushes though and then i took a fancy to booming and decided to try out dutch and brit but this has made me wanna try out otto FI now. can you plz post a build order for this. that would be much appreciated.thnx
the one and only,
Apocalypes

huntables = .83f/sec
berry bush/mills = .67f/sec
trees = .5w/sec
mine = .6g/sec

500f = 602VS
400w = 800VS
200g+outpost = 333VS+500VS+45VSbuild time = 878VS

from a purely VS standpoint, the 200g+outpost is slightly superior to the 400w. but your goals immediately after aging may necessitate a differing choice. you may not always need the outpost, in which case the 400w is much better than the 500f. now you know why 500w pre 1.04 needed a change.

Otto can do anytyhing thats what makes them great. They are hard to scout with since your usually building a Tp early and what not. I try and scout the best I can and look at my opponents deck. I would say not to do a pure FI as it isnt necessary. Your better off making units in colonial as this is where Otto has their biggest advantage.

Disrupt them as much as possible so their eco can be brought down to your level. Fortress age sux for Otto so yeah you want to skip that one but they pwn in colonial.

This strat has been improved.

When reaching Industrial, the first card to send is 2 Great Bombards. Together with the church tech, you will have 5 Great Bombards on the field, protected by 15 Janissaries and 3 Guard Spahi (+4 Abus Guns if you haven't lost 'em earlier).

After you have this kind of defensive force, you should send the 2 TC wagons card and get your economy rolling. After that, ship in all the Spahi cards you got.

You don't have to use the above force for defensive purposes only, but can go on the offensive as well. Most booming civs will have a hard time stopping such an assault at this stage of the game (~11-12 minutes in).

But what about hte factory cards? arent they better to send after the 2 TCs or somewhere inbetween there?

2 Great Bombards
2 TC Wagons
6 Spahi
4 Spahi (yes, it's worth it, remember they are GUARD)
Factory
Factory
Whatever the hell you want next.

Factories take a long time to establish themselves and start pumping out Great Bombards.

However if you just ship in 2 Great Bombards and get 3 from the Church tech, you end up with 5 Great Bombards very quickly and can go on the offensive right away. Just 40 seconds after you've reached Industrial (which can be before 11 minutes on maps with collectable herdables).

If you wait for 3+ more minutes for the Factories to give you more Bombards, you give your opponent too much time to prepare.

I pick attacking straightaway with 3 spahi 3-5 bombards (depending on my choice of shipment) and 15 jans. If 4 age up abus are still living, even better. I know that it probably won't kill him (specially if german). But then, I get mercant ASAP and get whatever the heck I want. Lately it's been decisions between spahi shipments and factories, Covered Wagons, and (if I haven't sent them yet) 2 great bombards. What I choose depends on what he's doing. Once I get one or two of three sets of those choices out he's often screwed.

FI is so much more fun than rush with ottomans...

you say 4 spahi, but im defintiely guessing you mean 6 and than 4.

also, if im waiting for spahi shipments, im guessing itd be best to make about 10 jans and upgrade them.( if i have the extra food), and than go for church techs.

anyones thougts on this?

Sorry to bring this topic back from the dead . . but wow. This strat is amazing. I was at a bit of a loss on Texas with Ottos, so I tried this out . . . and this has had me winning all my Texas games since, mostly against higher rated opponents.

In the last game though, I tried a bit of a variation, going with 400 wood up followed by the galley and 400 wood up again. The thing is, 4 abus are nearly worthless in this strat in my experience, and the 400 wood which I know'll be available in fortress allows me to claim a second tp in colonial. Alternatively it allows for much less time spent gathering wood for the 15 jans.

Also, a tip which I learned last game; if there's an otto mirroring this strat, keep your explorer alive and target one of his 3 spahi from industrial up with the crackshot. Instant advantage.