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Topic Subject: Oh God, another Sweden idea
posted 01-17-06 09:17 PM EDT (US)   
Hold with me here a moment, before you scoff and say anything. I know there's been general talk about it, along with Austria, Italy, Japan, etc., but as far as I can tell (brief search in here and modding forums), nobody's gone anything in-depth at all about a possible Swedish civ for any expansion pack that may come. I wanted to rectify that, so I've begun tweaking with some ideas for it.

Now, before I show off any of this, I want to note that I am horrible with numbers. If my bonuses are too big or too small, please tell me.

First off, many people are no doubt asking "Why bother with Sweden? The only things I can remember about that country are IKEA and that chef in the muppets."
Sure, the country may not be a lot to look at now, but during the AoE3 time period it was a power to be reckoned with. The only major Swedish obstacle to colonization was that the Batlic closed them in, with the only way to the Atlantic via Denmark, an unfriendly (to say the least) nation.
A decent wiki history article:http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/History_of_Sweden#The_rise_of_Sweden_as_a_great_power:_1600

Now then, what would a good simulation of a Swedish civ look like in this game? What were the characteristics of Sweden's military and economy at this point? Well, Gustav Adolph is often credited with being one of the first leaders to recognize the importance of field guns against infantry in battle. Okay, so good falconets. His army tore through central Germany at an astonishing rate, with men able to move quicker than most with lighter equipment. Okay, faster movement speeds.
Thinking about the civ in this broad view gives a good start on what to do, but then you have to get down to the nitty-gritty details and specifics. Here it goes:

Leathern guns-- Swedish UU artillery: faster rate of fire and movement speed, lower hp
One of the first self-contained linen cartridges, it made loading and firing faster in the Swedish army.

Imperial Fusil-- Swedish UU Musketeer: again, faster rate of fire and speed, lower hp

Mercs:
Jaegers/Highlanders -> Hackapells -> Highland Mercenary Army
Swiss Pikemen -> Black Riders -> Holy Roman Army

Civ Bonus: 10% bonus to food gather rate,
Sweden was slow at industrializing, and remained an agricultural state well into the 1800s.


Unique Swedish HC cards:

Advanced Church card-
District Juries- All infantry get +12% hp, but at –5% production rates and –5% movement speed
Since Sweden did not have a feudal system for the raising of armies, Gustavus Adolphus raised an army by introducing a selective conscription through which every district furnished men according to its population. Local juries selected every tenth man between the ages of fifteen and thirty exempting some professions, miners, armourers and peasants who had one son in the army. (Cribbed off of another site)
Norsca Skirmishers (1500f)- Delivers 18 Norsca Skirmishers and upgrades all skirmishers to Norsca Skirmishers.
Finska Hackapells(2000f)- Delivers 10 Hackapells to your TC

Horn’s Sabre Cavalry-
+7% attack to all Swedish Cavalry

1000 Lutefisk-
Delivers 1000 food to your TC, much like Port’s ‘1000 Brazilwood’ card
Dude, it’s lutefisk. Not the most serious addition to the game, I know, but it could actually be worth something to a player.

Captain Gars-
Increases your Explorer’s attack and hp, and gives him a war dog companion

Captain General Gars-Thank you 1632!
Increases Explorer attack and allows him to build 4 bodyguards (unit type as of yet not figured out, maybe Highlanders, Hackapells, or a single Leathern Gun. Heh.)

I know this is far from a complete civ set and that some names don't fit, so any suggestions and assistance would be welcome.

Replies:
posted 01-18-06 11:58 AM EDT (US)     1 / 16  
Seems good so far...



Sweet baby maizes!
posted 01-18-06 03:00 PM EDT (US)     2 / 16  
Yes, seems good. Maybe make the civ bouns a little better but that's just my opinion.
posted 01-18-06 07:47 PM EDT (US)     3 / 16  
Cool, so now we have Japan, China and Sweden.

Cosmopolitan? Check.
posted 01-19-06 00:20 AM EDT (US)     4 / 16  
That Lutefisk is a nice touch. I like the little embellishments that make the civs more unique.
posted 01-19-06 09:28 AM EDT (US)     5 / 16  

Quote:

Dude, it’s lutefisk. Not the most serious addition to the game, I know, but it could actually be worth something to a player.

Lutefisk smells bad. I don't know how it tastes, but it definetely smells bad.




Sweet baby maizes!
posted 02-12-06 02:09 PM EDT (US)     6 / 16  
cool. nuff said

*dances insanely so that i don't miss another closed thread*
This is bunny with a gun, FEAR HIM. . . . to the EXTREME!!!
(\__/)
(O.o )#____ * * * * *
(> < )#
posted 02-12-06 03:56 PM EDT (US)     7 / 16  
I didn't think they wanted straight up numbers as civ bonuses (the 10% food). Maybe they get like wagons with mills or something?

EDIT: "They" being ES. Not that you are necessarily trying to appeal to them, you just might want to make it more consistent with other civs.

Oh, and I like it : )

[This message has been edited by Rostasky (edited 02-12-2006 @ 03:57 PM).]

posted 02-12-06 05:39 PM EDT (US)     8 / 16  
Sweden should get 2 swiss pikemen armies, the same way the brits get 2 hessein jaeger armies.

Also the Swiss should get some sort of bonus with the swiss pikemen, like cheaper cost, or also available from the church, with a the unique church tech.


Please give me your opinion on the Fall Of Mankind!!! Ultimate Zidane Video

Glory To the revolution!!!

O=[[[[[[[]]]]]]]=-------,
Get Hooked

posted 02-12-06 06:25 PM EDT (US)     9 / 16  
Thanks for the feedback everyone, I'll come up with more stuff eventually. (hopefully soon)


Ok, so maybe Sweden gets an extra food crate at the beginning of each game, or somesuch?

Quote:

Sweden should get 2 swiss pikemen armies, the same way the brits get 2 hessein jaeger armies.

Also the Swiss should get some sort of bonus with the swiss pikemen, like cheaper cost, or also available from the church, with a the unique church tech.


I didn't know that Sweden used that much in the way of Swiss mercenaries. I knew they used mercs in general (didn't everybody?), but I thought they used more Scots and Germans than Swiss.

[This message has been edited by Ofaloaf (edited 02-12-2006 @ 06:27 PM).]

posted 02-12-06 06:57 PM EDT (US)     10 / 16  

Quoted from Ofaloaf:

know there's been general talk about it, along with Austria, Italy, Japan, etc.,

Austria?? Wasn't Austria so weak that they had to get saved by the Hungarians. Austria-Hungary as a civ. would be really cool, but not Austria(Or Hungary).

posted 02-12-06 07:43 PM EDT (US)     11 / 16  
Well I thought that since swiss pikemen come from Sweden...

Here's my opinion :

Ok the Swiss army trained pikemen, until reaching a level of high proffessionality and quality.

Then after the need for these pikemen died down, the men went to look for work as mercenaries for other armies. Therefore Imo the Swiss should get a sort of privilage with them.


Please give me your opinion on the Fall Of Mankind!!! Ultimate Zidane Video

Glory To the revolution!!!

O=[[[[[[[]]]]]]]=-------,
Get Hooked

[This message has been edited by King_Ali_Skahir (edited 02-13-2006 @ 06:51 PM).]

posted 02-12-06 09:35 PM EDT (US)     12 / 16  

Quote:

Well I thought that since swiss pikemen come from Sweden...

That's funny, I always thought Swiss Pikemen came from Switzerland...

posted 02-13-06 06:27 PM EDT (US)     13 / 16  
That's a rather common mistake.

Swiss= Switzerland.

Swedish= Sweden.

Yeah, they both begin with Sw, but one is longer than the other.

posted 02-13-06 06:49 PM EDT (US)     14 / 16  
Oh, i screwed up, please pardon my ignorance.

Never mind then.


Please give me your opinion on the Fall Of Mankind!!! Ultimate Zidane Video

Glory To the revolution!!!

O=[[[[[[[]]]]]]]=-------,
Get Hooked

[This message has been edited by King_Ali_Skahir (edited 02-13-2006 @ 06:52 PM).]

posted 03-13-06 02:24 PM EDT (US)     15 / 16  
k some changes i would like to have:

karoliners,either an upgrade of hussars or as a totally new unit.

dalkarl, fast pikeman with high damage
(could be an upgrade too)
and for the bonus, i think you could use the allotment system( see wikipedia) that allows you to get soldiers out of houses

posted 03-18-06 10:01 PM EDT (US)     16 / 16  
pretty good, but you need to state exactly which units they get, do they get the falconet? or is it replaced by the leathern gun?

do they get crossbowman? or pikeman? what ships, etc.

"Imperial Fusil"

im pretty sure that that is meant to be 'fusilier' and it is not a swedish 'unique unit' as such. The Austro/Hungarians and the swedes both put in a lot of extra training and equipped their fusiliers better than other nations, but they weren't unique as such.

Most nations had a fusilier corps.

and whats with the +12% hp, and +7% attack?

7% is bugger-all. a hussar, 30 attack, gets +1-2 attack with this card. might as well make it 10%, then it would be worth a bit more sending as a card.

12% infantry hp might as well be 15%, particularly in return for the -5% speed and +5% train time.

other than that, pretty good ideas


"You, know , one day i might move to Scotland. and then get drunk, then paint woad on my face, then run around with a sword and shield until i get arrested,lol." - some history forum user

Winston Churchill was a member of both the 4th Queens Own Hussars and the 21st Lancers. As a a member of the 21st Lancers, he led one of the last british cavalry charges, against the muslims in sudan.

Age of Empires III Heaven » Forums » Future Robot, Bonfire, Windstorm, and NewToy Games Forum » Oh God, another Sweden idea
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