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Topic Subject: The Ottoman FI for the Lower Player
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posted 10-11-08 02:59 PM EDT (US)   
*Disclaimer*
I got these ideas from "IvIoIzT", who came up with the Naked ottoman FI, which I used to make this strat. Please, no one take offense.


TWC, and TAD


This is aimed at all of you weaker players out there, (in comparison to most of the others on these sites). May it be a lower level HC, or just not having time to practice micro, you're stuck at a lower level, and are still looking for that "slap in the face" strat. Personally, I've never focused on winning, I've just rolled the dice with the most random thing I can think of, and went from there. Weather it be a petard rush, or the scout slam, I've done it. Here's MY idea, which can be developed in so many ways. You could head to revolt, imperial, boom (yes, boom), or quit early and FF. However, I've had much success, against computers, and the occasional opponent online. Now, I'll quit blabbing, and get to the strat. I'm sorry if you understand all the basics, but this write up is for the "lower player", who might not know all of this, and neither would I, if I weren't a pro on my other RTS, Battle For Middle Earth 2.

Advantages and Disadvantages of a FI (Fast Industrial)



Advantages
-Better units (in this case, Spaih)
-Great Bombards
-A better economy
-A fail safe. If you must, you can revolt at any moment.
-Three TC's
-A physiological Edge over your enemy. If you're in Industrial about 3 minutes into his colonial boom, you're gonna mess up his head.


Disadvantages
-Lack of Defense. You're gonna have to scramble if you get rushed.
-A weaker Economy until later in the game. If you get stuck in a fortress battle, you need to bail
-A smart opponent might* guess what you're doing
-Other people don't like you as much


Your Deck, and YOU


I'm going along in this write up assuming that you have a level 20 home city, or something in between 20 and 25. The recording I have is of me with a 22 home city, and, In my opinion, 20 is the lowest you can have and still have the necessary crate cards. These are the required cards, and I don't think you can do this without them.

Age one-

Three Villagers. Settlers are valuable For the ottoman player, especially early, as they take so much time to train. This is a very important card.

Age two-

Age three-,,,

1000 gold: This is the staple card. With it, you can get to industrial very quickly.
Spaih: You need as many of these cards as possible. They are the second most important card in the deck.
Malemukes: Very important. Good to have, because they just take so darn long to die.
Fort: This will save you in the event of a light rush.

Age Four-,,,

Factories: These will keep you in the game assuming your enemy survives your initial attack.
2 Great Bombards: The staple of your army. Without these dudes, the game would be over very quick. With them, you can decimate towns, loads of infantry, everything.
Two Town Centers: These will also make your game easier. Along with church upgrades, you can boom like crazy.


The Build Order


This is by no means final, or in stone, but this is what I've been doing, for the most part.


Age One:
1. Send three villagers () to go herd hunt-ables. Do this by shooting the animal in the direction of your Town Center. This makes it easier to defend against raids. Begin Collecting Food.
2. Once your other villagers finish collecting the remaining crates, have them herd another group of hunt-ables.
2a. Build a house.
3. Build a Trade Site Post with your Explorer.
3a. If you didn't get lucky enough to start with 400 wood, use your explorer to get some wood through treasures, or put a single settler.
4. Scout near your base first, then search for where your enemy is. Collect Treasures in this order of priority. Gold-XP-Food-Wood.
5. Age up to AGE 2 once you have 800 food, using the quartermaster, or the 400 wood politician.
()

Transition:
1. Send three villies to collect gold from a mine. Once you have three hundred, from either treasures, or mining, go back to food. Send one villager to wood.
2. Make sure you have explored at least all of the map.

Age Two

(your opponent should be nowhere near Colonial yet, you're safe for a bit)

1. Send the 700 Gold card immediately.
2. Collect the age up wood with one Settler, when the gold is about to arrive, send two more from gathering food to gathering the sent gold. (When all the gold is collected, you should have 1000)
2a. Build another house, and a Trading Post with your explorer.
3. Collect 1200 Food as much as possible. Continue sending all of your new settlers to gather food.
4. Age to age three with either of the Politicians. It really doesn't matter.

transition
1. Continue Scouting
2. Start collecting a little bit of gold.
3. Build houses when possible.


Age Three

(This is where you can potentially split off and start the fight now, or you can continue. I won't write up what you'd do if you decided to split.)

1. You should have two shipments, or almost two. You need to send two cards, a fort (), and 1000 gold (). Depending on what the game is doing, you either need to send the fort first (if you suspect being attacked), or the 1000 gold.
1a. Remember to put the fort behind your TC. This will make it safer for you.
2. Get 200 gold somehow. Treasures, or gathering, you need 1200 to age up to age 4.
3. Continue Collecting food. Still have one villager on wood, and the rest on gold or food.
4. Once the gold arrives, send three villagers to collect it.
5. Age with the three Spaih Politician.
()


Transition

At this point, you're looking to work very fast. You want to know where your enemy is, and if he knows what you're up to. If he's in fortress, look for an artillery foundry.

Age Four

1. Send 2 Great Bombards.
2. Send the biggest Spaih Shipment you can afford.
3. Keep your age up spahi at base. Defend if you must, but the spaih and bombards must stay alive
4. Send 5 villies to wood, 4 to gold, and the rest to food.
5. Build as many houses as you can.

6. Once your Bombards and Spaih arrive, place the spaih in hold ground stance. Send your explorer, Spaih, and Bombards out towards the enemy town. Kill everything you encounter. KEEP YOUR SPAIH NEAR YOUR BOMBARDS AT ALL TIMES. They are the only thing keeping your bombards together. If you loose the spaih, you loose the bombards, you loose the spaih, and vice versa. If you watch the attached recorded game, you'll see how much it set me back to loose the bombards.
Your primary targets are culverns. Send injured spaih back as necessary to heal. Build a mosque and research more villies, and build imams.

7. Send both factories, and put them on bombard patrol. ,
8. Send two town centers. Put one on wood, one on gold, and one on food.
9. Build Janissarys, and Cavalry archers as needed.
10. Eventually, down the enemy town, and win.

*side note*

Once you get to industrial, and have the bombards and first spaih, the game is up to you. You can boom, revolt or do anything. This is where experience comes into play.



RECORDED GAME: As a Replay Reviewer, I love recorded games. This is against a British player, who did very well of resisting me. Note how I attempted to prioritize targets.

http://aoe3.heavengames.com/downloads/showfile.php?fileid=2215


I think that's it! Post if you have any questions, or comments, or flames, and I'll do my best to answer them! Please remember, that I am a master sergeant, and I cannot recommend this strat for anyone above this.

If I may ask one question for the said experts:
Would it be applicable at all to go to a revolt once you get bombard production up? Are Militia better than Janissary?

Retired GameReplays.org Senior Replay Reviewer
World Class Drum Corps International Mellophonist 2009
Proud Winner of "Best Newbie Award" BFME2H, a long time ago

[This message has been edited by Sir Snoopy (edited 10-11-2008 @ 08:52 PM).]

Replies:
posted 10-14-08 00:22 AM EDT (US)     26 / 46  
If* he does build muskets, and they decide to go melee you, you can do one of two things.

1. Split the bombards and the horses, and if the muskets go for the horses, your bombards can rip them apart.
1a. Same thing, but if he goes for the bombards, he won't be on your horses, and you can melee them.

2. You can try to get the muskets to clump. (on a building, near a goldmine), and attack them with your horses. They should win, as genderarms beat anti cav 1vs1, your spaih should as well.
If he splits his muskets and takes out your GBs before your Spahi finish killing off the other lot of musketeers, even if he only kills most of your remaining Spahi, it puts something of a spanner in the works for you.

+1 to Arcane's post regarding numbers. Spahi may beat Musketeers at a 1 for 1 ratio, but A Brit who hasn't be rushed by an Ottoman is going to be very worried and likely have a lot more than 11 Musketeers. Of course, if he throws a few goons in (assuming he's in Fortress when you attack) it'll be a lot warmer for you all of a sudden.

Ceres 629's strategy guides

Vive la mort, vive la guerre, vive le sacre mercenaire.

0 A.D
posted 10-14-08 00:39 AM EDT (US)     27 / 46  
"Of course, if he throws a few goons in (assuming he's in Fortress when you attack) it'll be a lot warmer for you all of a sudden."

yeah most likely if he looks at your deck and is fort by the time you go age 4, he most likely will put in some goons since he will see all of your spahi cards. The great bombards+spahi could definately kill many of the muskets, but the muskets(assuming they have a good number) should do the job. If the brit has done a full manor boom and is doing lbow/pike, then the game is yours pretty much.
posted 10-14-08 12:45 PM EDT (US)     28 / 46  
Great strategy Snoopy, I can't wait to test it out!

"Apparently, arguing for the right to do something no-one wants to do is the lifeblood of HG." - TaylorFlame

"Whatever happened, BFME2H did it better. No Exceptions." - EnemyofJupitor
posted 10-15-08 01:35 AM EDT (US)     29 / 46  
i know it is random but if you look at the patch notes for TAD it states that ottos get 3 wood crates
posted 10-15-08 02:11 AM EDT (US)     30 / 46  
i know it is random but if you look at the patch notes for TAD it states that ottos get 3 wood crates
Sometimes they get 3. Sometimes they get 4. Different every time.
posted 10-15-08 02:17 AM EDT (US)     31 / 46  
They get 3 + a Random crate.

Proud Citizen of Sovietcanuckistan
posted 10-15-08 07:27 AM EDT (US)     32 / 46  
They get 3 + a Random crate.
Actually it may even be 2 crates on some maps. It depends on the map, and the crates are the same for everyone. There are certain percentages of crate x appearing, or crate y appearing.

There was a post long ago about it.
posted 10-15-08 12:14 PM EDT (US)     33 / 46  
You will get less than 3 wood crates the same amount of times as you don't get an explorer when you start when playing as ottos.

/Edit - Oh you mean 2 random crates :S Well that's right

My grandmother slaps harder than the Agra Fort shoots. And she's dead. ~ Ender_Ward

By the same token, if I attempt to operate the mouse using nothing but my butt-cheeks, micro will also come down to "luck." ~ Beatnikjoe

[This message has been edited by Lord_Richjp (edited 10-15-2008 @ 12:15 PM).]

posted 10-15-08 08:06 PM EDT (US)     34 / 46  
what would happen if you got mass-rushed in colonial, then what would you do?
and what would happen if you IOR'd after you finshed the FI seeing as you already have the nessasary tps
posted 10-15-08 08:16 PM EDT (US)     35 / 46  
You wouldn't need to IOR at that point because you would have the necessary economy, and the IOR would already be inexhaustible, with or without the tps.

Also, you should be hitting industrial at roughly 10:00, and you also have shipments and age up units to hold him off. Also, people expect YOU to rush, and so most people will be on the defense, although once they see the 700g, they'll spring into action. By that time however, it might be too late.

Still, it's a strategy that depends on your opponent and what he does a lot too.
posted 10-15-08 08:29 PM EDT (US)     36 / 46  
"and what would happen if you IOR'd after you finshed the FI seeing as you already have the nessasary tps "

you would kick ass if they haven't attacked/raided you yet
posted 10-15-08 08:53 PM EDT (US)     37 / 46  
A lot of strategies rely on your opponent. However, the fort + tc fire can help you, and, since you're focusing on food and gold, you can always pull out and go with your jannisaries.

Retired GameReplays.org Senior Replay Reviewer
World Class Drum Corps International Mellophonist 2009
Proud Winner of "Best Newbie Award" BFME2H, a long time ago
posted 10-16-08 09:18 AM EDT (US)     38 / 46  
Hey Snoopy, nice strat, I like it! I used to do this in team games, GB pwn everything

However, it is a bit risky. I would suggest doing this only on Texas, as the extra towers help defending if you get rushed.

Also, your rec doesn't prove much, in terms how viable this strategy is, as your opponent played very poor (esp his eco management astounded me, he had 3k food at one point, but was gathering gold with only 4 vills). It would be nice to see a rec where you actually fend off a few attacks before getting to Industrial, but I know, getting recs isn't easy!

I think not going for a naked FI might improve this. Making like 10 Hussars in colonial and harassing the opponent non stop with them will but him in a defensive mind setting, and he will be busier fending off your raids, rather than attacking you. This will delay your aging times, and eco management might become a little trickier, but on the whole I think it will make it safer. I'm thinking along the lines making a stable from age up wood, sending 700 gold as first card and 600 gold as second. 700 gold to make the hussars, and 600 for going fort. This will also give you another age 2 card, helping you to delude the opponent that you are rushing.
Which is actually my last suggestion: make your deck look non-FI like. I believe the 2 TCs are a total give away. I'd use 1000 wood instead. It nearly makes 2 Tcs, and is a commonly used card.

Again, cool strat!

[img]http://www.skwizz.com/aoe_sign/triumvirn@1@999@1@TAD@250%2C250%2C250@220%2C172%2C58.png[/img]
posted 10-16-08 10:54 AM EDT (US)     39 / 46  
I will say that making hussars in colonial is the worst thing you can do for this start. If you raid him at all he will start spamming muskets. If he scouts you and only sees a stable. you basicaly just said i'm an idiot i can't counter muskets or pikes please kill me while i waste resources that i need to get to industrail. The best way to defened. is i send a fort and make some local jans. Hurass with the jans. This make your oppante go to li if will completely get inilated when you brin in your saphi and great bombards.
posted 10-16-08 11:49 AM EDT (US)     40 / 46  
"I will say that making hussars in colonial is the worst thing you can do for this start. If you raid him at all he will start spamming musket"

I don't think you have tried semi-FFs if you say that making hussars is
a) stupid, as he'll make muskets
b) a waste of res
The point is to raid him non stop and don't let him out of his base. you attack, run away when you see muskets, circle around the base, attack somewhere else. He won't even be thinking about attacking your base if done properly, because he's either losing a vill every 20 sec, or at least busy moving his vills into the TC and out again.
If he does attack you, it'll probably be shortly after you went fortress, and with the abu gun politician and your 10 hussars, you should have enough to at least survive his first attack.

"The best way to defened. is i send a fort"

How? You're in colo.

"This make your oppante go to li if will completely get inilated when you brin in your saphi and great bombards."

bombards annihilate muskets just as well.


But okay, if you don't want him to make muskets, aka potential danger due to sieging, just make jans instead of hussars then. Jan raids work too. You just can't run away as easily with them, meaning you won't be able to keep them as long.

I just wanted to point out that there are very few occasions on which your opponent will let you get to Industrial without attacking at some point of time.

[img]http://www.skwizz.com/aoe_sign/triumvirn@1@999@1@TAD@250%2C250%2C250@220%2C172%2C58.png[/img]
posted 10-16-08 12:31 PM EDT (US)     41 / 46  
What i meant with the fort is 10 jan local made hurrasment and get to fortress. Then you ship fort if they are building up units and pressuring you.

also look at hussars this way They cost you almost as much as putting you directly into fortress. And ever moment you waste you loose any chance of catching up with thier economy. Even with your 10 hussars you get lets say 5 villies (an amazing feat). You just nulified one of my shipments while at the same time my economy grows faster and you had to use 1-1+1/2 shipments to support your economy to make those hussars. Were as the jans cost less, still can raid to a degreee protect your own units and still allow for you to get to industry in a manor that allows you to use it to your advantage.

I'm srry if my conceptions are way off but as a lowely captain i don't see hussars as feasiable at 10 in number.
PLease show me in a game.

Eso Ironblade
posted 10-16-08 02:37 PM EDT (US)     42 / 46  
you really couldn't do this vs russians since they expect you to ff or fi.

btw, you could use the TP's to use a IOR except with hussars so that you could stream them too.

where would you get the many jans from since your biggest threat is a huge cavalry army at least for the bombards.

and about the 2 tc's i think that it really doesnt matter since when I do an IOR, i usually make some jans and then attack then make the push to fort and then bring out a fort. it looks like an IOR deck with the silk road card but i still have the forts and the factories along with the cheaper jans and the upgrade card which would probably "mess up his head".

an ff or fi could be countered with a pretty fast rush. you would be at a very high risk for being rushed. which brings my question back about being ISA rushed or by a Euro civ or Asian civ.

[This message has been edited by Masked8407 (edited 10-16-2008 @ 02:54 PM).]

posted 10-16-08 07:07 PM EDT (US)     43 / 46  
Yes, IOR while FI.... Make/Ship jans/hussars locally, once every while, don't spend too much time on it. Also, 8 jans one-shot kill a regular villager, and 8 jans is 1000 resources. That could get you 5 hussars (in terms of resources). 8 jans will get down 1, maybe 2, or even 3 villagers per raid. 5 hussars however, will trail the villagers and get down a lot more (5 hussars = 150 attack [I think] per hit, villagers have 150 hp un-upgraded [I think]).

He won't make HI just because you're raiding him, will you make HI if I raid you with cossacks? No, that's just common reasoning, you raid with cav, and if he sees a stable, he might assume that you're rax is hidden somewhere. Even IF he makes HI, then you can always go defensive with your tc/spahi/bombards.
posted 10-16-08 08:18 PM EDT (US)     44 / 46  
Well you could start streaming Jans or Hussars after you start going to fortress. That would be a common time for an after-rush attack.
posted 10-16-08 08:42 PM EDT (US)     45 / 46  
You could, but that would be an ff, not a fi. Btw masked, what is your avatar? Is it some dude with a dark-aura hand and a tail?
posted 10-17-08 03:13 PM EDT (US)     46 / 46  
You could send Spahi and mams and create some jans abus and hussars (to hold off any attacks) and then age (after you send 1000 gold) to make it an FI. then you keep on streaming the army.
for arcane: my avatar is Ichigo Kurosaki in full hollow form from Bleach.
@ snoopy: about the militia vs the jans, the militia would win in ranged battle and they have higher armor vs range (30% vs jans 20%), the jans would win the melee battle and are faster at siege and have higher hitpoints.

[This message has been edited by Masked8407 (edited 10-17-2008 @ 03:38 PM).]

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