Nice thread! Belisarius is one of my favorite historical figures, so I'll be following this one with interest. Glad to see this in AoF too

For the AI, I'd recommend this tool. It's quick, efficient, and quite honestly just an amazing tool for customizing AIs.

Screenshots look good - some of them could use a tad more elevation but overall it's great work

1. Is it possible to place wooden bridges (AOF) without creating the water underneath? I tried to use them as benches in the theatre, but the water under them kills the impression...

Use the wooden bridge ends, not the middles. The middles use water as their base terrain, but the ends don't.

2. Any tips on how to work with triggers more efficiently? Does anyone have some tricks on how to not get lost in 100+ triggers? Or is patience the only answer?

Patience and organization. Find an efficient way of organizing your triggers - I like to to the main "plot" of the scenario first, and divide that into logical segments. Then there are separate segments for each sidequest, a separate segment for difficulty triggers, and then others for whatever else you need. Use blank triggers to mark where one segment ends and another begins because the red text stands out to you.

3. Is there any way to detect LESS objects in area? Condition like: if there is no enemy building in specific area, declare victory etc.

For now, you'll need a workaround or a trigger system. Hopefully there will be an area parameter added to the "Own Fewer Objects" condition in AoF in the future.

4. Is it possible to make the AI maintain more bases (5) efficiently, for example defending each of them with full force and constructing military and defensive buildings around each of the five Town Centers independently? If not, is it possible to tell the AI which of the Town Centers is the main one?

Of this I'm not entirely sure. Probably best to ask this question in the AI & RM Scripting forum. The defending I know they can do, and as for the TCs, I'm pretty sure they count the one you placed for them first in the editor as the main one, but I'm not sure about the rest.

5. Some of the AIs will operate quite large cities, any tips on how to efficiently defend a city (for the AI)?

There are two parameter you want for this, I believe. They are:

(set-strategic-number sn-defense-distance #)
(set-strategic-number sn-enemy-sighted-response-distance #)

In the above lines, you want to replace the number sign (#) with an actual number, which depends on the size of the AI's base. Experiment a bit and find what's best for you.

1. Only with data editing.

2. I usually think of all my triggers up front and structure the triggers properly. I use empty triggers as titles to divide different sections and put "C-" in front of triggers to show where my chat effects are (very useful if you plan to implement voice acting later on). I also separate objectives and triggers so my objectives don't actually do anything, just show the objectives. In my experience it's cleaner and because all objectives are grouped together it's easier to change them later on.

Everyone has their own way of approaching this but I think thinking ahead and structuring the triggers go a long way.

3. In AoF not yet but I'm sure that will be included in the future.

4. Not that I know of. The AI doesn't do well with several bases usually. The first town center you place on the map is the main one though and minimum and maximum town size always apply to that one.

5. There are several ways to approach this. You can use the town-under-attack condition in combination with an attack order to handle the AI defenses but the most used one is minimum- and maximum town size. If the AI is under attack in this area then he'll send all units he's got to deal with the attackers. However if the AI has a lot of resources and units this can turn into a real war of attrition like in some AoF scenarios.

I probably can help you playtest but it would be for next week if that's okay with you.

Btw you can check my aibuilder. It's not finished but maybe it can help you see how my AIs are structured.

Maybe you could make each of the different town centers belong to a different AI player, but each of them are allied with each other? That might make each of the towns be defended properly, IDK.

Thanks for your answers, guys

Patience and organization. Find an efficient way of organizing your triggers - I like to to the main "plot" of the scenario first, and divide that into logical segments. Then there are separate segments for each sidequest, a separate segment for difficulty triggers, and then others for whatever else you need. Use blank triggers to mark where one segment ends and another begins because the red text stands out to you.

Thanks for the idea of blank triggers, it will fit in nicely, I already divided each scenario into different "acts" and some globally active triggers, renaming, embellishment stuff and difficulties have their own segments as well...

Btw you can check my aibuilder. It's not finished but maybe it can help you see how my AIs are structured.

Thanks, this is really great! However, how to implement the defence in the AI? Currently there is do-nothing, are there any (easy to use) commands to make the enemy defend with all they have? Furthermore, how to differentiate villager numbers by difficulty? (from the generated AI, for example).

Also, the timers are probably multiplied by game speed (normal speed = 1,5* faster)?

Anyway, I will probably struggle a while to find the right economic balance for my selected army compositions

I probably can help you playtest but it would be for next week if that's okay with you.

I may not have it ready by that time, depends on how the triggers and AIs will go... :P

Maybe you could make each of the different town centers belong to a different AI player, but each of them are allied with each other? That might make each of the towns be defended properly, IDK.

Well, I will probably have to divide them like this, I will first see how the single AI holds its ground, the bases are quite far away and on the opposite sides of the river... the problem is that I want the player to destroy all the bases on his side of the river, so with separate AI I could make a condition player defeated instead of destroying all buildings in the specific area (with the AI rebuilding destroyed buildings), simulating the "pushing" of the enemy behind the river, but the AI can rebuild its buildings on the wrong side of the river and never be defeated (perhaps there is a way to restrict the area in which the AI rebuilds?) If not, I will probably condition the AI to resign if badly damaged and scrap the river idea.

Thanks, this is really great! However, how to implement the defence in the AI? Currently there is do-nothing, are there any (easy to use) commands to make the enemy defend with all they have? Furthermore, how to differentiate villager numbers by difficulty? (from the generated AI, for example).

Yh before I used "attack-now" or the group attacks in those rules to tell the AI to attack when it was under attack. However I replaced it with "(set-strategic-number sn-maximum-town-size #)". The size is set to 15 here for now until I get the time to update it and let the designer chose the area size.

As I mentioned before town-size will make the AI target all enemies that are attacking him in that area and will send all its units to do so. Here's an article about town-size-attack although it's mainly about its offensive capabilities and doesn't really address the downsides of it. However it describes exactly what you want.
http://aok.heavengames.com/university/other/town-size-attack

For the villagers you should just copy paste the villager creation rules for each difficulty you want and add "(difficulty == #DIFFICULTY)". You can also use <, >, <=, >= but keep in mind that hard < easy.

Also, the timers are probably multiplied by game speed (normal speed = 1,5* faster)?

Yes.

Anyway, I will probably struggle a while to find the right economic balance for my selected army compositions

This is indeed a complex question. In ES campaigns the AI relies on just its villagers to produce the resources it needs (with a few exceptions like Genghis Khan 6, Attilla 4, ...) but those campaigns are for many current players too easy. They also make use of a better AI starting position, more resources, better resource access, technological advantages and lower populations in general to counter that. That's why I (and others) often prefer to use cheats to boost our AIs so they can keep up with players who are used to multiplayer games. This in turn however can create a more artificial feeling to the scenario and can be experienced by players as smashing through waves and waves of AI units (certainly when cheating is combined with town-size attack).
To me it seems the best way would be to find a balance between the both but also limit population and resources equal to the amount of enemy players and their strength on the map. It's something I'm experimenting with in my Sigebert campaign.

I may not have it ready by that time, depends on how the triggers and AIs will go...

Oh yeah of course. Misread and thought you were already done with one or more scenarios.

but the AI can rebuild its buildings on the wrong side of the river and never be defeated (perhaps there is a way to restrict the area in which the AI rebuilds?)

This too can be achieved with town-size (although it's a perfect square so if the town center is close to the river it might still happen). You should make a test AI with just minimum and maximum town-size (with 1-2 tiles in between) and add another rule that tells it to make nothing but towers. You'll see that it makes a nice wall of towers along the borders of the town-size area.

Well, I will probably have to divide them like this, I will first see how the single AI holds its ground, the bases are quite far away and on the opposite sides of the river

What I also sometimes do is make an active AI and a passive one. The active one will create units and attack, while the passive one will just have units guarding the base.

[This message has been edited by Jan dc (edited 06-15-2015 @ 04:57 PM).]

I think a good idea would be to disable cheating at start so the player has a chance to build up, enable it after some time (when the player builds up and starts outperforming the AI), and then disable again if its economy is significantly damaged (for example, more than 2/3 of its villagers are killed), it could even be reenabled if it recovers.

Anyway, (hopefully) last couple of questions:

-I want the AI to target specific players (humans and other computers), shift their targets throughout and also target two players at the same time equally, are there any commands dealing with this?

-There are two computers in close proximity (one immobile, other active), the active AI should defend its immobile ally as it would defend itself (with town-size). I imagine when attacked, the immobile AI would send signal to active AI to trigger the town-size attack, perhaps even possible through triggers AI signal - AI script goal?

Jan dc, I noticed the AI from ai builder has some trouble attacking the player, and it doesn't follow the group sizes I set (only attacks in small squads), also, one of the ship groups just sailed through whole map and didn't attack.

Again, thanks very much for your help, the aibuilder is a wonderful tool, it covers most of the average B&D scenario needs, now I can't imagine writing all the rules for 10+ AIs by hand

I think a good idea would be to disable cheating at start so the player has a chance to build up, enable it after some time (when the player builds up and starts outperforming the AI), and then disable again if its economy is significantly damaged (for example, more than 2/3 of its villagers are killed), it could even be reenabled if it recovers.

In the AIbuilder there's a timer that tells the AI when first to start cheating and if you add the rule beneath to the cheating it will stop cheating if it's in trouble.
unit-type-count villager >= 10
or
cc-players-unit-type-count 1 villager >= 15
If you want it to stop cheating if player 1 is in trouble.

-I want the AI to target specific players (humans and other computers), shift their targets throughout and also target two players at the same time equally, are there any commands dealing with this?

You can use sn-target-player-number for that.

Set to the number of the player that should be targeted for attack. If this sn is set to -1, initiating an attack will instead provide assistance to allies. When set to 0, sn-attack-winning-player will determine the target. Setting this to a player that cannot be attacked (an ally or the AI itself) will result in undefined behavior. You can also use this value with the "target-player" identifier in facts and actions.

There are two computers in close proximity (one immobile, other active), the active AI should defend its immobile ally as it would defend itself (with town-size). I imagine when attacked, the immobile AI would send signal to active AI to trigger the town-size attack, perhaps even possible through triggers AI signal - AI script goal?

It's possible with AI script goals. You can use a trigger to detect the player's units and then increase town size so it will include the allied base if it's closer than the player's base. You can also have the AIs immediately communicate with each other and use that combined with town-under-attack. This only works if the passive AI also has a town-size though.
And keep in mind that you have to acknowledge the AI script goals so they're reusable.

sn-safe-town-size might also be an interesting one.

If an enemy building is inside both sn-maximum-town-size and the region specified by this sn, it will be targeted by defensive units. If the building is inside sn-maximum-town-size, but outside this region, it will be targeted only if it belongs to the player specified by sn-target-player-number.

Haven't tested this myself yet though.

Jan dc, I noticed the AI from ai builder has some trouble attacking the player, and it doesn't follow the group sizes I set (only attacks in small squads), also, one of the ship groups just sailed through whole map and didn't attack.

This is because the numbers are probably scaled according to difficulty. You have to change this "set-strategic-number sn-do-not-scale-for-difficulty-level no" to yes. You can also change the attack system to the simpler attack-now. The reason the ships sail around is probably because the AI hasn't found a target yet. Maybe a rule to check if the AI has found ships or a dock first will solve that. Does it explore on water?

Again, thanks very much for your help, the aibuilder is a wonderful tool, it covers most of the average B&D scenario needs, now I can't imagine writing all the rules for 10+ AIs by hand

Your welcome . I hope to improve it in the future.

Now I understand some more, however I'm unsure about the AI signal which activates the AI from immobile - in trigger effects there are only AI script goals, AI signals are in the conditions, so I'm not sure how to activate the AI...

AI script goals are used to communicate with the AI through triggers while AI signals are used in the AI to activate a trigger.

For example if you use effect:
AI script goal 1 and there's a rule in the ai that says:

(defrule
   (event-detected trigger 1)
=>
   (acknowledge-event trigger 1)
   (chat-to-all "A trigger is trying to tell me something.")
   (disable-self)
)

The AI will send that message.

If you have a rule that says:

(defrule
   (true)
=>
   (set-signal 1)
   (disable-self)
)

and a trigger with a condition to check for AI signal 1 and that sends a message if the condition is true, then your trigger will immediately show you the message once you start the game.

AI script goals are repeatable, AI signals are not so you can use every number only once.

For my AI you just need a trigger with an AI script goal effect (the number you've chosen when creating the ai) at the time you want it to, and the AI will start being active.

[This message has been edited by Jan dc (edited 06-16-2015 @ 06:07 AM).]

Thanks again, now I get it

AIs are progressing nicely, first scenario is almost done and I already tested it on hard.

If there are no issues with my audio interface, I plan on doing voice-acting as well, I will try to get close to ES-quality acting (I have some entry-level studio microphone but by no means professional voice, and have no idea how to make those awesome accents as in the ES campaigns), is there any specific quality I should use? I read that either wav or mp3 is fine, the game files use 64 kbps bitrate and 22 kHZ sample rate mp3s, would there be any problem with using 44.1 kHZ?

The project will be delayed, as the editor in patch 4.0 and onwards is difficult to work in, once they fix the bugs I will continue again.

I had no luck with getting my audio interface to work, so the voice-acting won't be implemented in the near future.

You can revert to 3.9 if you like:

1. Go to your games library on Steam, and right click AoE2HD.

2. Select "Properties" from the dropdown that appears.

3. Click the tab called "Betas" in the window that pops up.

4. Select "Archive3.9" from the dropdown of beta programs you can opt into.

5. Let it download, and then launch AoE2HD once the download is finished. You should then be on 3.9.

Screenshots look good! I especially like your desert design, makes it seem not dull. Might take some inspiration from that!

Since the patch 4.3 is released, I'm gonna work again on this, hopefully the editor bugs are fixed (especially the triggers). However, I read problems arose with the campaign AI (standard AI appearing in campaigns), is it a problem with custom scenarios as well?

I'm planning to read a book or two about Belisarius to make the history description in-depth and detailed (and the story and dialogue more accurate), if anyone knows some, I will be glad to know (in English or Czech language)

I heard that researching a technology that affects the respective unit removes any trigger effects (name, HP, etc.) you had put on that unit.

I heard that researching a technology that affects the respective unit removes any trigger effects (name, HP, etc.) you had put on that unit.

Just tested it, and it works as always. Techs don't apply to units that were affected by effects.

There might be some minor bugs but so far scenario editing in 4.3 has been alright for me. If you do notice any bugs let us know.

The campaign AI bug also is just for the build-in campaigns so custom scenarios will be fine.

[This message has been edited by Jan dc (edited 08-17-2015 @ 08:28 AM).]

Some triggers with patrols (well, probably any trigger which contains patrol) were in red (as well as all the patrol effects), but when I clicked on all the effects manually, they turned green again (and worked fine). This happened only when first loading the scn.

Edit: also a minor bug, but annoying nonetheless: with any reload of scenario or after testing, the testing difficulty resets back to "easiest", no wonder my scenario seemed too easy on hard

[This message has been edited by Fundey (edited 08-17-2015 @ 10:35 AM).]

Working on 10+ full AI scripts, finally getting them to behave like I want to.

What are your views on differences between difficulty levels? ES scenarios had pretty low gap between easy and hard, sometimes hard was even easier because the AI ran out of resources sooner.
In AoE 3 the differences were significant - laughably simple on easy, and with higher difficulty levels the enemy numbers got up rapidly.

My view on hard difficulty is to make it as difficult as possible but still winnable without depending on luck or exploiting scn or AI bugs, but what about easier ones? How easy should be easy? Should it be winnable for anyone without any real effort (as is the trend in modern games)? Should it still require some entry skill?

[This message has been edited by Fundey (edited 09-02-2015 @ 09:42 AM).]

When playing a custom (or official) campaign, you have three difficulty options: Standard, Moderate, and Hard. You want your scenario to appeal to players of all levels, so you set the difficulty accordingly.

When designing a scenario, I tend to make Standard laughably easy so that newer players (or, more accurately, those capable of beating the ES scenarios on moderate/hard, since those are so easy) have a chance at winning. Moderate is the middle ground, and is less fast-paced and challenging but still requires decent strategy and skill to win. Hard is meant to push a skilled player to their limits without being outrageous or requiring exploits, and to provide a good deal of adversity (and possibly require a few restarts/reloads).

In general, don't be afraid to make your scenario challenging (but fair). People sometimes complain about having trouble winning a scenario, but I've never personally understood the mentality that the possibility of losing the game is a bad thing. What's the fun in playing the scenario in the first place if there's never any doubt that you will win?

The screenshots look good. I like your terrain mixing in particular. Good luck with this and keep up the good work!

Scenarios 1, 3, and perhaps 4 are almost ready for testing, I will be grateful to anyone willing to playtest, skilled scenario makers as well as casual players are all welcome. After your hard work you will be credited, of course

Anytime this or next week is ideal. It would be best to play once on standard difficulty and catch any bugs/glitches/grammar mistakes, get familiar with the scenarios and then play on hard to see if it is challenging enough (but winnable). Moderate is set to be more or less halfway between standard and hard.

Working only on AoF (Steam).

What is the status? I would be willing to play test some scenarios.

If you're looking for any additional voices, I'm down for it. Here's a bunch of stuff I recorded previously.

Do you do voice acting on request? If you'd voice act one of my campaigns, I'd be glad to try to model a few things for your star wars mod.

Thanks for the interest!

What is the status? I would be willing to play test some scenarios.

Well, I got busy at the start of the semester, now I read about the troubles with new patch releases (s) and I'm getting myself AoAK for Christmas, so I can reasonably start working on it after New Year at best (I consider adding some AoAK stuff). When I have any scenario finished, I will message you

If you're looking for any additional voices, I'm down for it. Here's a bunch of stuff I recorded previously.

Well, my equipment didn't work in the end, so voice acting is off-limits, (except if you are willing to do the whole campaign), which I can't ask you, as I don't even know if this will ever be finished. Voice-acting can only be done after everything else is properly finished. I don't want you to waste your efforts

Anyway, while a lot of work is to be done, some scenarios are mostly finished, so if I abandon the work I can upload those

During my last playtesting I captured some gameplay screenshots:

Sassanid army attacks Dara
Army of Vitiges arrived at Italy
Goth army besieging Rome

Do you do voice acting on request?

Absolutely, let me know what you need, and I'll try and knock it out.

I love B&D, this is looking good and I have time right now - shoot me a mail if you need another tester.

Edit: Half a year late, but I just noticed this: Regarding your question 3, look at this: SD FAQ (Scroll to Q89)

[This message has been edited by John the Late (edited 12-18-2015 @ 04:11 AM).]

Hello again, I'm back

Scenarios 1, 3, 4, and 5 are roughly finished for testing, however I will wait with uploading them before the new bugs in the HD editor are fixed, namely the difficulty bug and the starting age bug.

I could reproduce the age bug but the condition is rather strange - if I make a custom campaign with a scenario and playtest immediately after, the age is correct, however if I do any modifications with that scenario in the editor (perhaps even open it in the editor at all), the ages run back to dark age. On the other hand, difficulty works fine here.

Any news about fixing these? They make it impossible to playtest properly, especially the difficulty bug...

Update - I returned to the project after a long while, and decided to redo it from scratch. I reimagined the gameplay of most scenarios - the scenarios are generally simpler with fewer objectives, dialogue and trigger mechanics. This makes it much easier to design (and increases the chances of ever finishing) and in my opinion also works better for Build and Destroy, core AoK gameplay.

Some screenshots from the first scenarios are already available.

Right now, I'm finishing scenario 3 (1 and 2 are finished).

This looks very good - and the Byzantines are one of my big historical favourites (and my historical nets are cast wide as it is). Justinian and Belisarius might have rebuilt the empire if Justinian's nephew and heir, Justin I (or II?) hadn't squandered all that success after Justinian's death and Belisarius himself was in elder age and not as able to do as much as a general as he was before.

P.S. I also take it the beautiful women from the dating site ads attached to the upload site the images are uploaded to don't play a part in the scenario. :P

P.S. I also take it the beautiful women from the dating site ads attached to the upload site the images are uploaded to don't play a part in the scenario. :P

Oh, I didn't notice it was such an ad-infested site, I normally use Adblock so there are no ads for me. I will try to find a better host.

I don't see any ads either due to adblocker. Worth downloading if you haven't already! In any case, it appears they have a "complain about advertisement" option at the top right hand corner of the page.

Changed the hosting, now each link shows the image directly.

Scenario 3 is almost finished, however that scenario and the one after are by far the largest in scope (giant map, lots of fully active AI players, multiple gameplay phases) so they will take a significant amount of time to complete.

I would also like to ask a question: what do you guys think should be an ideal time for a scenario? Should I perhaps make options for the player to be able to finish earlier (for example by secondary objectives)?

Depends on the scale and gameplay of the scenario, really. Any attempt to posit an exact time as an answer to this question would be inevitably erroneous and not representative of anything resembling a majority of cases. It's really a judgment thing - if the gameplay begins to lose what made it exciting and starts to become monotonous, then it's probably been going on for too long.

Justinian and Belisarius might have rebuilt the empire if Justinian's nephew and heir, Justin I (or II?) hadn't squandered all that success after Justinian's death and Belisarius himself was in elder age and not as able to do as much as a general as he was before.

The loss of somewhere between a quarter and a third of the Empire's manpower to the outbreak of Justinian's Plague was also quite contributory here.

[This message has been edited by HockeySam18 (edited 01-24-2017 @ 12:39 PM).]

Update - I revamped the thread and added new screenshots from scenario 5 and geographical minimaps of each finished map. I am slooowly moving towards release