I'll let you guys know when I'm ready for playtesters, but that'll likely be a month or two down the road.

However, I am ready to accept balance testers for the modpack side of the campaign. My goal is for the modpack to be fully playable and balanced in a normal random map game, and with all of the changes I've made, I wouldn't be surprised if some units or strategies are completely broken.

If anyone would like to take a look at the balance and do some analysis and testing, please send me an email. I'd appreciate it.

Impressive, appealing and ambitious;I like it. A focus on story and characters should go over well. Both a modpack and a campaign I see. The combat changes seems reminiscent of mrcnj;this could work well without needing to rely on the limited triggers as in his era. Has anyone experimented with reducing unit rotation speeds? Like making a unit take a minute or two to turn around so a cavalry charge or flanking maneuvers hold more weight. Maybe it wouldnt work at all like I am envisioning, however.

Looks outstanding so far, Leif. I won't be available to test for the next couple of months, but who knows what the future will bring beyond that

I may or may not be available for playtesting when the time comes, but wow - this has been a long time coming! The project looks exciting and even more so because it is modded. Please continue to post updates as you progress. I can't wait.

I thought I'd ask for a few suggestions about some naming decisions I'm not confident about.

First, with the ages, I didn't want to go with ages or time periods like the original game or most mods because the campaign takes place in a non-magical fantasy universe that happens to be similar to 9th-11th century Europe, especially Anglo-Saxon England. Right now, I have the ages instead corresponding to an expansion of the size or status of your dominion:

Settlement -> Fief -> Shire -> Earldom

The only name I'm uncertain about here is "Fief" since I think a fief is more a category than a territory or realm. I don't want to expand to kingdom because your main character is the son of an earl instead of a prince. If anyone can think of alternative naming schemes or a completely different way to name the ages, let me know.


Also, some unit names:

One of the new types of infantry units you can train are retainers, essentially household or hearth troops, the special retinue of trained warriors loyal to a local lord. I currently have the line named this: Retainer -> Housecarl -> Elite Housecarl. I've never really been happy with the name Retainer. Is there a better term, especially one that would upgrade to housecarl well?

Lastly, the primary infantry line is now a militia infantry line armed with spears and shields, essentially cheap spearmen with a smaller bonus vs. cavalry. This line represents levies and conscripts raised on short notice by a local lord for a war campaign. I currently have it named this: Peasant Levy -> Town Militia -> Freeman -> Yeoman. Is this historically accurate, or can someone suggest something better? I ask because Age of Chivalry has Freeman as the first unit in the militia infantry line, but from what I've found, freemen had a much higher status than Age of Chivalry would suggest. It seemed like most militia were composed of men with a lower status than freemen.

Upon reading the article on the fyrd on Wikipedia, it does look like the Anglo Saxon fyrd consisted mainly of freemen, so maybe my current approach isn't actually the best. Did levies and militia ever consist of men with a lower status than freemen, even for a town or village?

[This message has been edited by Leif Ericson (edited 02-23-2018 @ 07:05 PM).]

Gedriht can replace the retainer,I personally don't like the term elite housecarl why not go with Gedriht/huskarl/houscarl.

In England a hundred was the division of a shire for military and judicial purposes under the common law, which could have varying extent of common feudal ownership, from complete suzerainty to minor royal or ecclesiastical prerogatives and rights of ownership

[This message has been edited by Mahazona (edited 02-23-2018 @ 10:51 PM).]

Is there a better term, especially one that would upgrade to housecarl well?

Housemaid, or battle butler?

[This message has been edited by Powery (edited 02-24-2018 @ 01:12 AM).]

I've never really been happy with the name Retainer. Is there a better term, especially one that would upgrade to housecarl well?

Why not thegn? Thegn means "servant, attendant, retainer" or "one who serves". In Aethelflaed, the elite Hearth Troop/Housecarl are basically the "select Thegn", or the most loyal thegns selected to serve in the lord's personal retinue. Thus it makes sense that thegn would always proceed the huscarl.

The Burwaran were permanent Anglo-Saxon garrison troops so perhaps they could start as the base militia?

From my understanding, the Anglo-Saxons were initially quite disorganised and would have used all kinds of men when called by their lord to do battle. However, this was changed overtime after King Alfred's extensive reforms, and in the end each hide of land in Anglo-Saxon England were required to provide only a certain amount of men to serve in the Fyrd (this was so there were still men left to till the earth and organise the harvest). These men would have been well-trained and equipped by the community so the overall quality did improve beyond being simple farmers with pitchforks but a well-drilled force. Think of the legacy left to Harold's fyrd during the battle of Hastings centuries later, who defeated the Vikings convincingly at Stamford before immediately marching hundreds of kilometres south and very nearly winning the day against the invading Normans.

[This message has been edited by Mash (edited 02-24-2018 @ 08:05 AM).]

Herreds and thridings were both Old Norse subdivisions of a shire that could fit between settlement and shire on your current age progression list.

Hirthman/hirdman probably would serve as a good precursor to the housecarl.

Thanks for the advice, guys!

Hows the progress going?

I got a bit ill over the past few days, so I haven't made much progress, but it's slowly getting there. I'm a rather slow designer, so I won't be making progress in leaps and bounds.

If there's enough interest, I can post the full list of units, buildings, techs, new civs, and civ bonuses for the full picture, but that would be a long post.

I would love to see this,if you have thing's planned.

This area is actually the most complete. Just don't have the "enemy" civs planned out yet. Here's the design building by building:

Barracks - Age I
Units:
Peasant Levy (Age I) -> Town Militia (II) -> Freeman (III) -> Yeoman (IV) - basically cheaper and quickly trained spearmen with a smaller bonus vs. cavalry
Raider (II) -> Pillager (III) -> Plunderer - basically woad raiders with high attack, high pierce armor, low-ish HP, and high attack vs. buildings
Retainer (II) -> Hirdman (III) -> Houscarl (IV) - easily the most durable infantry, high melee armor
Pikeman (III) -> Guard Pikeman (IV) - high HP and melee armor with a huge bonus vs. cavalry, somewhat slower than other infantry and cost gold

Techs:
Tracking (I) - infantry +3 LOS, cavalry +2 LOS
Squires (II) - same
Shield Walls (III) - infantry +25 HP

Outpost - Age I
Unit:
Sentry (II) -> Sentinel (III) - infantry with extremely high LOS (10/13 respectively), high HP, low attack

Techs:
Fortified Outpost upgrade (II or I after Town Watch) - allows Outposts to attack, cost +25 stone
Town Watch (I, same but also enables Fortified Outpost upgrade in first age) -> Town Patrol (II, same but also trains sentries in 5 sec) - also available at TC
Fortified Palisade upgrade (II)

Archery Range - Age I
Units:
Peasant Bowman (I) -> Archer (II) -> Longbowman (III) -> Elite Longbowman (IV) - same
Javelineer (I) -> Skirmisher (II) -> Elite Skirmisher (III) - same as skirmisher line but no min range, less HP
Cavalry Archer (III) -> Heavy Cavalry Archer (IV) - same
Crossbowman (III) -> Arbalester (IV) -> essentially janissaries that cost wood and gold

Techs:
Guerilla Tactics (II) - foot archers/javelineers move faster, javelineers +15 HP
Bracer (III) - foot archers, cavalry archers fire faster, foot archers +15 HP

Stable - Age II
Units:
Scout Cavalry (II) -> Light Cavalry (III) -> Hobelar (IV) - same but have a bonus vs. siege instead of monks
Knight (III) -> Cavalier (IV) -> Paladin (IV) - same
Lancer (III) -> Guard Lancer (IV) - essentially camels with melee armor
Mounted Raider (III) -> Marauder (IV) - cost-effective tarkans, also have a bonus vs. peasants

Techs:
Husbandry (II) - same
Bloodlines (III) - cavalry, cavalry archers +50 HP

Siege Workshop - Age II, doesn't require Blacksmith
Units:
Portable Ram (II) - fast ram with same pierce armor as other siege, can't garrison units
Battering Ram (III) -> Siege Ram (IV) - same
Mangonel (III) -> Heavy Mangonel (IV) - same
Onager (III) -> Siege Onager (IV) - essentially bombard cannons, but third age onagers can't outrange castles and towers with Bodkin Arrow
Scorpion (III) -> Heavy Scorpion (IV) - same but faster
Ballista (III) -> Siege Ballista (IV) - slower scorpions with higher attack, some bonus vs. buildings
Trebuchet (IV) -> same, only available with Siege Engineers

Note: Heavy Mangonel, Siege Onager, Heavy Scorpion, Siege Ballista, and Trebuchet can all attack trees.

Tech:
Siege Engineers (IV) - required for 4th age siege upgrades and trebuchet, ranged siege +2 range, available for all civs

Castle - Age III
Unit:
Unique Unit (III) -> Elite Unique Unit (IV)

Techs:
Shire Unique Tech (III)
Earldom Unique Tech (IV)
Sappers (III) - same but allows the construction of Sapper Tunnels (see topic post)
Murder Holes (III) - essentially the Persian Boiling Oil tech from HD
Crenellations (IV) - same as hoardings but also applies to walls
Conscription (IV) - same

Towers
Watch Tower (II) -> Guard Tower (III) -> Bastion (IV) - same but each upgrade has +1 range and +1 arrow in addition to HP and attack boosts, cost +25 stone, upgrades are researched at the tower itself
Sapper Tunnel (III) -> requires Sappers, 18 range, can only attack once, destroys all walls in one hit, cheap, but takes 500 seconds to construct with one peasant

Walls and Gates
Palisade Wall (I) -> Fortified Palisade (II) - same
Stone Wall (III) -> Fortified Wall (IV) - same, but only can be effectively damaged by siege and somewhat by infantry
Palisade Gate (II)
Stone Gate (III)

Town Hall - Age I, second TH can be built in age III
Unit:
Peasant (I) - same as villager

Techs:
Loom (I, same) -> Frontier Settlers (III, basically a second loom but peasants also attack with bows)
Town Watch (I) -> Town Patrol (II) - see Outpost
Fortified Palisade (II) - see Outpost
Wheelbarrow (II) -> Hand Cart (III) - same
Herred (I) - age II upgrade
Shire (II) - age III upgrade
Earldom (III) - age IV upgrade

Mill - Age I
Horse Collar (II) -> Heavy Plow (III) -> Crop Rotation (IV) - same

Mining Camp - Age I
Trench Mining (II) -> Shaft Mining (III) - same, but each upgrade affects both gold and stone gather rates

Lumber Camp - Age I
Double-Bit Axe (II) -> Bow Saw (III) -> Two-Man Saw (IV) - same but Two-Man Saw is just as effective as the other two

Dock - Age I
Units:
Fishing Ship (I) - same
Transport Ship (I) - same
Merchant Ship (II) - same as trade cog
River Raft (II) -> War Cog (III) - like cheap Viking longboats with low HP, die to all other war ships easily, can transport 3/4 foot units, respectively
Galley (III) -> Galleass (IV) - 3 range, 1 arrow, effective vs. boarding galleys
Boarding Galley (III) -> Fast Boarding Galley (IV) - 0 range with melee attack, effective vs. war cogs
War Cog (III) -> Hulk (IV) - 3 range, fire multiple arrows, high HP, high cost, effective vs. galleys
Siege Ship (IV) -> Elite Siege Ship (IV) - like cannon galleons but fire bolts like war galleys and galleons, less range than cannon galleons but can be increased with Siege Engineers, only Elite Siege Ships with Siege Engineers outrange castles and towers

Techs:
Fish Preservation (II) - fishing ships carry +15 food
Gillnets (III) - fishing ships gather 25% faster
Careening (III) -> Dry Dock (IV) - similar, but Careening increases speed and Dry Dock increases armor instead of vice versa
Shipwright (IV) - same but cheaper
Coastal Defenses (IV) - basically Heated Shot but also allows docks to fire arrows like Malay Harbors

Blacksmith - Age II
Forging (II) -> Crucible Steel (III) -> Blast Furnace (IV) - same
Fletching (II) -> Bodkin Arrow (III) -> Thumb Ring (IV) - same
Gambeson (II) -> Mail Hauberk (III) -> Brigandine (IV) - same as infantry armor upgrades
Aketon (II) -> Cuirie (III) -> Haubergeon (IV) - same as archer armor upgrades
Kite Shield (II) -> Scale Barding (III) -> Cuirass (IV) - same as cavalry armor upgrades

Market - Age II
Unit:
Merchant (II) - same as trade cart

Techs:
Cartography (II) - same
Trading Posts (III) -> same as Caravan, doesn't require Cartography
Guilds (III) - same, but also decreases the costs of economic techs
Coinage (III) -> Banking (IV) - same

Monastery - Age II, heals garrisoned units quickly
Unit:
Physician (III) - cheaper, faster monk that can't convert but heals faster, collect treasure troves instead of relics

Techs:
Hospitals (III) - same as Herbal Medicine but also increases the garrison size of monasteries and allows them to garrison cavalry
Girdle Book (III) - same as Fervor (and it works)
Herbal Gardens (IV) - physicians +3 healing range
Surgery (IV) - physicians heal 30% faster
Masonry (III) -> Architecture (IV) - same but also decreases the cost of buildings
Hoardings (III) - same as Murder Holes
Treadmill Crane (III) - same but more effective
Ballistics (III) - same, but projectiles also travel faster
Alchemy (IV) - like Chemistry but doesn't unlock gunpowder units, siege weapons have higher attack against buildings
Fortified Wall upgrade (IV)

[This message has been edited by Leif Ericson (edited 03-03-2018 @ 10:02 PM).]

Btw, there's no University, mostly for time period reasons. Also, religion doesn't play a part in the campaign for plot and worldbuilding reasons (I tried inventing a religion for my fantasy world, but it seemed to complicate the plot if I tried to work it in). So, monasteries in the mod basically fulfill the secular functions they had in medieval Europe (learning, literature, and "medicine") instead of the religious, and that's why the Monastery covers the old University techs. This was the best solution I could come up with.

Also, I'm not certain that I want Siege Engineers to be required for all siege upgrades. I'm considering changing its effects back to what it had in the original game and changing Alchemy to +1 attack missile attack and increasing archer attack vs. buildings by 1 or 2, similar to a weaker Mayan Obsidian Arrows tech. Let me know what you guys think.

Civs (~5 more to be added later):

Wesmark

Lumberjacks work 15% faster

Peasant Bowmen, Javelineers, and Ambushers attack 15% faster

Peasants +5 HP for each dropsite and town hall technology

Towers cost 100W 100S (instead of 25W 150S) and Frontier Outposts cost 70W 35S (instead of 50W 50S)

Team: Physicians +3 healing range

UU: Ambusher - fast archer with high attack, low range, and a bonus vs. infantry
Shire UT: Fortified Manors - Town Halls +1200 HP, +3 range
Earldom UT: Local Chieftains - Raiders +60 HP

Missing Units: Houscarl, Guard Pikeman, Heavy Cavalry Archer, Hobelar, Cavalier, Paladin, Heavy Mangonel, Onager, Siege Onager, Ballista, Siege Ballista, Galleass, Hulk, Elite Siege Ship
Missing Techs: Bloodlines, Shipwright, Crenellations, Fortified Wall, Crop Rotation, Cuirass, Alchemy

Norwatch

Foragers work 25% faster

Barracks and Outpost techs cost -25%

Peasants benefit from infantry Blacksmith techs

Buildings cost -20% stone

Military buildings support population

Team: Barracks 20% faster

UU: Throwing Axeman - same but with higher range
Shire UT: Field Marshals - retainers +2 pierce armor
Earldom UT: Draft Horses - siege weapons move 50% faster

Missing Units: Guard Pikeman, Elite Longbowman, Elite Skirmisher, Heavy Cavalry Archer, Paladin, Guard Lancer, Marauder, Mangonel, Heavy Mangonel, Scorpion, Heavy Scorpion, Hulk
Missing Techs: Bracer, Gillnets, Shipwright, Bastion, Two-Man Saw, Shaft Mining, Haubergeon, Cuirass, Thumb Ring, Guilds, Treadmill Crane, Surgery

Avongard

Shepherds work 25% faster

All ships cost -10%

Market trade cost only 5%

Gold mines last 25% longer

Fish Preservation, Gillnets free

Team: Ballistas, scorpions, siege ships +1 range

UU: Avon Protector - basically teutonic knights
UU: Longship - upgrade of War Raft in age III
Shire UT: River Patrol - Archery Range units +20% HP
Earldom UP: Border Patrol - Buildings heal 5X faster, towers and monasteries garrison 2X units, towers fire up to 2X normal garrison arrows

Missing Units: Houscarl, Guard Pikeman, Arbalester, Hobelar, Paladin, Heavy Mangonel, Onager, Siege Onager, Scorpion, Heavy Scorpion, Boarding Galley
Missing Techs: Bloodlines, Crop Rotation, Brigandine, Haubergeon, Architecture, Alchemy, Girdle Book, Surgery

Aldoria

Town Halls 2X HP, work rate +10% with Herred, +15% with Shire, +20% with Earldom

Pikemen, lancers cost -20%

Towers +1 range with Shire, +1 range with Earldom

Earldom costs -33%

Team: Monastery techs researched twice as fast

UU: Aldorian Crossbowman - quick releasing crossbowman with bonus vs. siege
Shire UT: Vanguards - Scout cavalry line +3 pierce armor
Earldom UT: Hinged Counterweight - trebuchets have 100% accuracy

Missing Units: Plunderer, Elite Longbowman, Elite Skirmisher, Paladin, Marauder, Siege Ram, Onager, Siege Onager, Scorpion, Heavy Scorpion, Siege Ballista, Fast Boarding Galley
Missing Techs: Bracer, Dry Dock, Frontier Settlers, Shaft Mining, Blast Furnace

Esdoria

Wheelbarrow, Hand Cart free

Town Halls cost 350W 0S

Knights cost -15%

Team: Mills cost 30W

UU: Mounted Crossbowman - essentially conquistadors, quick releasing like Elite Mangudai
Shire UT: Fertilizer - farms +150 food
Earldom UT: Trade Roads - trade units cost halved

Missing Units: Plunderer, Houscarl, Elite Longbowman, Guard Lancer, Mangonel, Heavy Mangonel, Ballista, Siege Ballista, Elite Siege Ship
Missing Techs: Shield Walls, Shipwright, Murder Holes, Bastion, Frontier Settlers, Two-Man Saw, Architecture, Hospitals, Herbal Gardens

---

~`o´~ |\  Join the fresh and exciting AI Ladder for its fourth season!
 ´ `  |_\
       |    Learn the joy of AI scripting in my guide: The World of AI Scripting
 ______|______
 \        /   .....Hinga Dinga Durgen! - SpongeBob
  `-=<.__.>=-´

[This message has been edited by Leif Ericson (edited 03-03-2018 @ 09:59 PM).]

Esdoria OP!

Looks pretty cool. You gave some good thought to this already and must be enjoying crafting the world. But any balance suggestions based on competitive play is not so relevant I think;the most important aspect of civ bonuses in singleplayer is more of a RP and flavour aspect.

Haha, too many booming bonuses for Esdoria? I agree with the flavor stuff, but if I know the balance is off it'll keep on bothering me.

[This message has been edited by Leif Ericson (edited 03-03-2018 @ 10:10 PM).]

Looks great so far.

This fantasy world might make an interesting base for a Viking age or similar total conversion.

The blacksmith really should have another category for modded scenarios.

[This message has been edited by Mahazona (edited 03-03-2018 @ 10:22 PM).]

Vikings in vanilla AoC are actually a strong 1v1 civ;they only fall off in imperial age. The free wheelbarrow and hand cart gives them the strongest economy in the game. Berbers are a powerful civ in WK with cheaper stable units;this leads to a fast and powerful knight play. Britons no stone wood only TCs made them a top teir civ in very old game versions. Japanese drop location cheapness is a good econ buff;those 30W mills encourage the player to go after shore fish and deer with ease. Conquistador and Mangudai have been some of the strongest UU in the game, even being used heavily in pro games and the Esdorian UU is described as being a combo of these two.

All these bonuses combining into one faction... Well, its hard to say without learning the mod in person to see how the game has changed. A penalty to either knights or crossbowmen (in vanilla...their equivalents in your mod) would seem necessary to balance the economy with a military deficit. Again, thats a very vague and superficial analysis. I dont know the mod enough to be sure, thats just the gut reaction.

[This message has been edited by Cataphract887 (edited 03-03-2018 @ 10:17 PM).]

Yeah, now that you point that stuff out...

I do think both knights and crossbowmen (longbowmen in my mod) are nerfed a bit. Every civ has lancers, and they're slightly stronger than their camel equivalents. However, pikemen are slower and cost gold, so maybe not. Archers in general will need a meatshield hopefully and javelineer upgrades are cheaper, so mass longbowmen might not be as strong. But I'll still have to tinker with their civ bonuses.

Edit:

Revised Esdoria bonuses. I still need to roll it around in my head to see if I think the civ still has its unique feel.

Mills cost -60%

Town Halls cost +50W, -50S

Knights move 10% faster or Knights train 25% faster (not decided yet, the latter isn't as good as it sounds since knights cost 150F 200G, but it's still stronger than +10% speed)

Team: Stables cost -25W

---

~`o´~ |\  Join the fresh and exciting AI Ladder for its fourth season!
 ´ `  |_\
       |    Learn the joy of AI scripting in my guide: The World of AI Scripting
 ______|______
 \        /   .....Hinga Dinga Durgen! - SpongeBob
  `-=<.__.>=-´

[This message has been edited by Leif Ericson (edited 03-03-2018 @ 11:31 PM).]