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Topic Subject: A Guide to Cavalry Comparison
posted 22 July 2004 09:59 PM EDT (US)   
A Guide to Cavalry Comparison

The purpose of this guide to compare the cavalry of AOM:TT when they are at there strongest. It will compare how they fair in the eight most important categories. The categories are Non Attacking Buildings, Buildings with Attack, Melee Human Units, Ranged Human Units, Melee Myth Units, Ranged Myth Units, Cost, and Head to Head. All units have a good number of bonuses each so I think its pretty fair. Each unit will receive 7 points for a first place finish, 6 points for a second place finish, 5 points for a third place finish ect. With 56 being the highest score possible when all eight scores are added up. There is no reward for margin of victory. There are 7 units in all.

*Mercenary Cavalry where not included because they cost no pop and die after a fixed amount of time.
*War Elephants are technically considered cavalry but I want to test “real” cavalry.

Now I present the competitors in the King of Cavalry Completion.

FU Ra Camelry (Ra Hit Point Bonus/Desert Wind)
Hit Points: 233
Hack Armor: 38%
Pierce Armor: 48%
Hack Attack: 14
Cost:50/70

FU Oranos Contarius (Lance Of Stone/Poseidon’s Secret)
Hit Points: 233
Hack Armor: 38%
Pierce Armor: 38%
Hack Attack: 14
Cost:70/40
*Hero Contarius not included because of high cost, favor cost, and because its 4 pop.

FU Poseidon Hetairoi (Spirited Charge/Thracian Horses/ Poseidon Cost Bonus/ Weapon of the Titans/ Beast Slayer/ Bacchanalia)
Hit Points: 187
Hack Armor: 34%
Pierce Armor: 56%
Hack Attack: 15
Cost:50/81

FU Poseidon Hippikon (Spirited Charge/Thracian Horses/ Poseidon Cost Bonus/ Bacchanalia)
Hit Points: 255
Hack Armor: 34%
Pierce Armor: 45%
Hack Attack: 17
Cost:36/72

FU Odin Jarl (Thundering Hooves/Ring Giver/Odin Hit Point Bonus)
Hit Points: 342
Hack Armor: 41%
Pierce Armor: 52%
Hack Attack: 14
Cost:50/80
*Yes it beats The FU Thor Jarl

Fu Poseidon Prodromos (Spirited Charge/Thracian Horses/ Poseidon Cost Bonus/ Bacchanalia)
Hit Points: 204
Hack Armor: 41%
Pierce Armor: 34%
Hack Attack: 10
Cost:63/36

Fu Thor Raiding Cavalry (Thundering Hooves/Sons of Sleipnir/Thor Armory Bonus)
Hit Points: 162
Hack Armor: 47%
Pierce Armor: 57%
Hack Attack: 14
Cost:40/50
* 2 pop

With out further due the here are the results of the tests.

Test 1: Non Attacking Buildings
This test will determine which unit destroys Non Attacking buildings the fastest. To test this we need a high hit point building that doesn’t fight back. I have chosen the Egyptian Lighthouse.

Egyptian Lighthouse
Hit Points: 1400
Hack Armor: 30%

Time = Light House Hit Points/(Unit’s Hack Attack*(1- Light House Hack Armor))
Time = 1400/ (Unit’s Hack Attack*(1-.3))

UnitTimePoints
1.Hetairoi 0:367*3.5 multiplier vs. buildings
2.Contarius0:566*2.0 multiplier vs. buildings
3.Hippikon1:585
4.Camelry2:234
5.Jarl2:234
6.Raiding Calvary2:234
7.Prodromos3.201

Test 2: Attacking Buildings
This test will determine which unit destroys buildings with attack the fastest. To test this we need a low hit point building that does fight back. I have chosen the Norse Watch Tower. If a tower is destroyed it is replace by another until the cavalry unit has died. This test starts with the unit directly beneath the tower so they start attacking each other simultaneously.

Norse Watch Tower
Hit Points:715
Hack Armor: 30%
Pierce Attack 10*2.0 multiplier vs. Calvary

UnitTowers KilledPoints
1.Hetairoi 1.567*3.5 multiplier vs. buildings
2.Contarius0.536*2.0 multiplier vs. buildings
3.Jarl0.495
4.Hippikon0.394
5.Camelry0.313
6.Raiding Calvary0.262
7.Prodromos0.191

Test 3: Melee Human Units
This test will determine which units are best at dealing and absorbing hack attacks. For the test I have chosen the FU Zeus/Athena/Dionysus Hopolite.

Hopolite
Hit Points: 172
Hack Armor: 57%
Hack Attack13

UnitHops KilledPoints
1.Jarl1.567
2.Hippikon1.266
3.Contarius1.0495
4.Camelry1.0114
5.Raiding Calvary.8233
6.Hetairoi.8172
7.Prodromos.661

Test 4: Ranged Human Units
This test will determine which units are best at dealing and absorbing hack attacks. For the test I have chosen the FU Hades/Ares/Apollo/Artmeis/ Toxote If a Toxote is killed it is replace by another until the cavalry unit has died. This test starts with the unit directly in front of the Toxote so they start attacking each other simultaneously.

Toxote
Hit Points: 78
Hack Armor: 38%
Pierce Attack13

UnitToxs KilledPoints
1.Raiding Calvary9.307*2.6 multiplier vs. Archers
2.Hippikon6.266*1.3 multiplier vs. Archers
3.Jarl6.105
4.Contarius4.174*1.25 multiplier vs. Archers
5.Hetairoi3.903
6.Camelry3.832
7.Prodromos1.891

Test 5: Melee Myth Units
This Test will determine which unit is the best vs. Melee (Hack Damage Dealing) Myth Units. For this Test I have chosen the Shieldmaiden Valkyrie .

Shieldmaiden Valkyrie (Thundering Hooves)
Hit Points: 412
Hack Armor: 60%
Hack Attack 18

UnitMUs KilledPoints
1.Jarl1.757*4.0 multiplier vs. Myth Units
2.Hippikon0.356
3.Hetairoi0.345*1.5 multiplier vs. Myth Units
4.Contarius0.294
5.Camelry0.283
6.Raiding Calvary0.232
7.Prodromos0.191

Test 6: Ranged Myth Units
This Test will determine which unit is the best vs. Ranged (Pierce Damage Dealing) Myth Units. For this Test I have chosen the Centuar Polemarch. If a Centuar is destroyed it is replace by another until the cavalry unit has died. This test starts with the unit directly by the Centuar so they start attacking each other simultaneously.
*Centuar Polemarch special attack not accounted for.

Centuar Polemarch (Bacchanalia and Monstrous Rage)
Hit Points: 286
Hack Armor:30 %
Pierce Attack:15

UnitMUs KilledPoints
1.Jarl6.517*4.0 multiplier vs. Myth Units
2.Hetairoi1.566*.5 multiplier vs. Myth Units
3.Hippikon1.295
4.Camelry1.023
5.Contarius0.894
6.Raiding Calvary0.862
7.Prodromos0.501

Test 7: Cost Per Population
This test will determine which unit is the cost the least in terms of total resource cost per population.

Total Resource Cost = Gold Cost + Food/Wood Cost
Cost Per Population = (Total Resource Cost / Population Cost)

UnitCost/PopPoints
1.Prodromos337*.9 Poseidon Calvary Cost
2.Hippikon366*.9 Poseidon Calvary Cost
3.Contarius36.675
4.Camelry404
5.Jarl43.333
6.Hetairoi43.672*.9 Poseidon Calvary Cost
7.Raiding Calvary451

Test 8: Head to Head
This test will determine which unit is the best at head to head. Each unit will face all the other ones once.

Prodromos defeats Camelry with 17.75 hit points left.
Prodromos defeats Jarl with 44.40 hit points left.
Prodromos defeats Hippikon with 74.83 hit points left.
Prodromos defeats Contarius with 99.96 hit points left.
Prodromos defeats Raiding Calvary with 119.84 with hit points left.
Prodromos defeats Hetairoi with 120.42 hit points left.

Camelry defeats Jarl with 33.34 hit points left.
Camelry defeats Hippikon with 71.40 hit points left.
Camelry defeats Contarius with 98.71 hit points left.
Camelry defeats Raiding Calvary with 127.72 hit points left.
Camelry defeats Hetairoi with 128.44 hit points left.

Jarl defeats Hippikon with 65.2 hit points left.
Jarl defeats Contarius with 111.98 hit points left.
Jarl defeats Raiding Calvary with 161.7 hit points left.
Jarl defeats Hetairoi with 162.89 hit points left.

Hippikon defeats Contarius with 43.10 hit points left.
Hippikon defeats Raiding Calvary with 88.86 hit points left.
Hippikon defeats Hetairoi with 90.0 hit points left.

Contarius defeats Raiding Calvary with 40.60 hit points left.
Contarius defeats Hetairoi with 41.61 hit points left.

Raiding Calvary defeats Hetairoi with 1.11 hit points left.

UnitWinsPoints
1.Prodromos67*3.0 multiplier vs. Calvary
2.Camelry56*1.8 multiplier vs. Calvary
3.Jarl45
4.Hippikon34
5.Contarius23
6.Raiding Calvary12
7.Hetairoi01

Results and Commentary

UnitTest 1Test 2Test 3Test 4Test 5Test 6Test 7Test 8Total
1.Jarl4575773543
2.Hippikon5466656442
3.Contarius6654435336
4.Hetairoi7723562133
5.Raiding C.4237221230.67
6.Camelry4342344630
7.Prodromos1111117720
* Raiding Calvary score adjusted to 3 pop 23 x (4/3)=30.67

1. Jarl
The main reason for the Jarl’s victory is the three bonuses affecting its hit points. It has the second best hit point per pop ratio in the game at 114 per pop. Along with its bonus vs. Myth Units allowed it to edge the Hippikon despite it being just average in all other categories. I was hurt by a high cost. It also has the most first place finishes with 3.

2.Hippikon
The main reason for the Hippikon almost taking the competition is its high attack of 17, and having the second most hit points of the 7 units tested. Along with its cost bonus allowed it to hang in there with the Jarl even though it never took first in any test. It had four-second place finishes though, and faired slightly above average in the rest of the tests.

3.Contarius
No you not seeing things the rarely used and often criticized as being the second worst unit in the game took the bronze. It manages this upset because it has the highest attack at 18, a good multiplier vs. buildings, and a bonus vs. archers. Despite having the lowest total armor it has proved all its detractors wrong by upsetting the supposedly superior Camelry in 6 out of 8 events.

4. Raiding Cavalry
It was hard coming up a way to adjust for its different pop. I hope I came up with a fair way. It managed to come in exactly in the middle even though it had the lowest amount of hit points in the units tested, and it was the most expensive. It was helped by the highest pierce armor of 57%, the pop adjustment, and a 2.6 multiplier vs. Archers.

5.Hetairoi
A mild upset taking fifth. It was helped by having the most bonuses of the units tested. It won both building tests by a landslide, and placed high vs. Myth Units which lead to a higher total score than expected for a unit that rarely sees the light of day in AOM:TT games. It was hurt by high cost, and low hack armor. It also has the second best pierce armor at 56%.

6.Camelry
Defiantly the most disappointing unit in the field the Camelry only managed to finish higher than fourth once. In essence this is a last place finish because the Prodromos is a counter unit and is naturally weaker. It was helped by its bonus vs. other cavalry. In its defense it had the lowest number of techs/bonus and is the fastest unit tested. I can’t really explain its low showing it seems to have average or better stats in most categories.

7.Prodromos
It came in last mainly because it’s a counter unit with a very low attack of 10. It had 6 last place finishes and 2 first place finishes. It has the distinction of beating all other units tested one on one because of its 3.0 multiplier vs. Calvary. It had below average stats in most other categories, which lead to its last place finish.

Conclusions

Doing this has taught me a few things. Hit points per pop ratio is the most important factor in the overall strength of a Unit. All the armor in the world won’t save you if you don’t have a lot of hit points. Then a big surprise to me is that attack seems to be more important than armor, which seems to go against the common way of thinking. Seeing that most units cost about 40 resources per pop the cost of the units seems to be the least important category.

ThePlatinumKnight

Replies:
posted 22 July 2004 10:01 PM EDT (US)     1 / 16  
Sorry about the formating I cant seem to fix it.......
posted 23 July 2004 03:51 AM EDT (US)     2 / 16  
I don't see how their speed effects anything in these tests. A major advantage of calvary is their speed. Camel's and RC have great speed. Jarls and hippikons do not...

Nick: Eten.
Gods: All of them!
Vanilla.

[This message has been edited by Etendorf (edited 09-09-2004 @ 04:04 PM).]

posted 23 July 2004 05:13 AM EDT (US)     3 / 16  
I'm not very sure about this but you said that you didn't use hero contarius right. Doesn't Lance of stone only give bonus damage vs buildings to Hero Contarii instead of normal ones?

Eli

posted 23 July 2004 06:15 AM EDT (US)     4 / 16  
Nice tests. Did you do multiple tests for each unit to get an average per event?
posted 23 July 2004 07:38 AM EDT (US)     5 / 16  
More interesting than your previous guide at least. However, still not useful I'm afraid.
And I don't understand why you 'tested' them against ranged units by placing them next to them... I would be more interested in for example 18 pop worth of cavalry against 18 pop worth of archers, starting far enough from each other.
Many of these result don't tell me anything. I'm not surprised that prodromoi are slaughtered by hoplites: I would try not to let them meet in battle anyway. Prodromoi are meant to fight other cavalry. Not infantry, not MU, not attacking buildings.

Quote:

Doing this has taught me a few things. Hit points per pop ratio is the most important factor in the overall strength of a Unit. All the armor in the world won’t save you if you don’t have a lot of hit points. Then a big surprise to me is that attack seems to be more important than armor, which seems to go against the common way of thinking. Seeing that most units cost about 40 resources per pop the cost of the units seems to be the least important category.


Again: Armor is the same as additional HP. It only makes a difference whether you fight against units dealing pierce attack or hack attack
Example: a unit has 100 HP, 20% hack armor and 80% pierce armor.
The unit can absorb up to 100/(1-0.2)=125 points of hack attack, so against melee units, its HP's are effectively 125.
The unit can absorb up to 100/(1-0.8)=500 points of pierce attack, so against ranged units, its HP's are effectively 500.
Therefore, stating 'all the armor in the world won't save you if you don't have a lot of hit points' is nonsense. 50 HP's and 95% of both armors is much better than 500 HP's and 45% of both armors.
Another example: low cost means easier massing and you have not tested the effect of massing these units, so I don't see what you base calling cost the 'least important category' on.
I hope I have made clear that you can't just 'rate' the importance of HP, cost, armor, speed, whatever. It depends on the situation.
Moreover, you can't just rate single units. The fact that prodromoi are slaughtered by infantry makes the prodromos less useful if the Greek infantry counters would not be good enough. However, prodromoi + good anti-inf. + ranged siege could be deadly as no hack attack dealing unit would be able to reach the siege weapons. And the prodromos would play an important part in that, and would thus be very good and useful cavalry units.
Just examples of how naive it is to 'compare' cavalry units to each other by having them attack single targets on their own. The game is just too complicated for that. Tests like these contribute virtually nothing to our understanding of the game, and therefore I don't see them as a 'guide'

Nerf... something!
posted 23 July 2004 08:12 AM EDT (US)     6 / 16  
You messed up the Contarius ones. Regular conts have 14 attack, but later on, you mention it having 18 and 2x vs buildings.

However, I think Etendorf is right, speed also matters. FU Ra Camelry have an amazing speed of 7.80. FU Oranos Contarius have a speed of 7.92(?)! Comparing that to a Hetairoi with 4.8 speed..


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posted 23 July 2004 09:14 AM EDT (US)     7 / 16  
Not to mention he left out elephants, which is prolly the most interesting unit to test, we all know that hetarois kill buildings, but how does eles fare vs myth and mass archers?

I wont complain too much though, he obviously put quite some effort into this.

posted 23 July 2004 09:21 AM EDT (US)     8 / 16  
Yes that's obvious, but no reason not to tell him why I think it's useless.. I criticize the results, not the amount of time he spent to do this.

Nerf... something!
posted 23 July 2004 09:30 AM EDT (US)     9 / 16  
True. To be honest the tests are kind of worthless, the results are kinda obvious in all cases, but I guess he made it as a kind of competition between different cavs rather than a usefulness test, so..
posted 23 July 2004 09:46 AM EDT (US)     10 / 16  
yeah i just would have liked to see a speed test, it is an important factor for cavalry. Otherwise it was pretty obvious but not bad.
posted 23 July 2004 10:34 AM EDT (US)     11 / 16  
Yeah i think a speed test and a raiding test should have been done in place of attacking mus and buildings as raiding and speed are important to cav unlike those tests.You are wondering why the camalry did so bad. Well, If you do this, the camalry would have done much better as it should.
posted 23 July 2004 12:10 PM EDT (US)     12 / 16  
hey elephants are calvary too!
posted 23 July 2004 02:56 PM EDT (US)     13 / 16  
In the end these tests must have taken a good amout of time, and so far it's not bad, but you HAVE to test also: speeds, Hero Contarius, War Elephant, Raid ability, and training time. That would make it a far more useful "guide" IMO.

(edit: might as well include the Atlantean Turma as well if you're going as far as to include the Prodromos.)

[This message has been edited by Ultimus (edited 07-23-2004 @ 02:58 PM).]

posted 09 September 2004 03:26 PM EDT (US)     14 / 16  
I'll add it.

Theris264
former Age of Mythology Heaven and Age of Empires III Heaven forumer||former member of Ambition Designs
"An eye for an eye, and the whole world goes blind" -Gandhi
posted 10 September 2004 10:36 AM EDT (US)     15 / 16  
Well i thought it was good. You can always edit it and fix the mistakes you made. But overall good and an interesting read. I would like to see The war elephant added because it is cavalry after all.

I was a bit dissapointed the Poseidon Hippoken didnt win. He is supposed to be lord of horses!

I think it would be good if someone did a best ranged unit guide (inc archers, pelts, turma, slings etc).

This guide is useless? No more useless than your insult to the strategy section pegasi rush guide Yooda. I think thats a fair comment.

posted 10 September 2004 08:16 PM EDT (US)     16 / 16  
thumbs up. i can tell lots of time went into it. a polite critique: it might have been a bit better massing the units. for instance- multi- hippis against multi- tox's. why? because in most games, you do'nt have 1vs1, you have
x vs. x x meaning an odd amount. do you get what i'm saying?? but overall, i though it was terrific.
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