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Topic Subject: Hidden bonus on counter unit
posted 28 October 2004 00:00 AM EDT (US)   
There are some hidden bonuses between the counter units maybe you dunno. Forget it if you already knew that.

The general rules of counter cycle of human unit is:
infantry>cavalry>archer>infantry

1) infantry vs cavalry
Let's make spear vs RC as an example..
Spear vs RC in one vs one battle, RC can beat spear always by higher hp and higher attack. It looks RC is more pop wise than spear, rite?
Let's make 5 spears vs 5 RCs and see what happen...they are more equal this time.
How about 10 vs 10? wow...spears can beat RC this time!
The same situation applies to ulfsark vs war elephant. War elephant is known as one of the best pop unit in the game that even beat all its counter.
Sure it is if 2 we vs 5 ulfsark. but how about 20 We vs 50 ulf? You will be surprised with the result!
Clearly, infantry beat cavalry not only by higher hack armor but also another major factor - size. The smaller size units have better pathing and easier to micro to attack same target.
Another bonus is infantry trends to attack cavalry first automatically, it saves your time from micro.

2) infantry vs archer
most people knew that one already.
Focus fire - if you pack all your archers in box formation and know how to use shift key to focus fire, your archers beat infantry effectively! Another thing need to remember is that archers need to mass in order to beat infantry pop and cost wise. Don't expcet 3 archers can beat 3 infantry!
(Of course meatshield is added even better)

3) archer vs cavalry
That one is tricky! Tower and archer's fire can't hit a moving unit with 5.0 speed or above. If a group of RC vs a group of archers, you can try to micro 2-3 RC ahead and run around between archers but remember 2 things:
1) those 2-3 RC never stop or attack any archers. you know once they stop, they will be killed by archers. The attribute of archers is to hit the first unit moves closest to their range until that unit dies or they are hitten by another unit. That's funny you will find that all archers try to hit those 2-3 RC but all misses. (some maybe hit by accident)
2) For other RCs, dun target all to hit one archers..try to micro 3 RC to hit different archer.

Actually, we can use the speed of cavalry vs tower as well. Micro one RC to run around tower without stop, the tower will continue to try to fire that RC but it never hit. Rite, you can disable that tower with one RC!

Hope above information you find useful!

[This message has been edited by a192 (edited 10-28-2004 @ 02:04 AM).]

Replies:
posted 28 October 2004 01:16 AM EDT (US)     1 / 18  
Very nice information. The same effect you explain about cavarly happens with infantry. 30 Toxotes vs 30 Murmillos result on Toxotes win, but if you use that trick and split the Murmillos all over the Toxotes then is an even fight (if the enemy don't use the Shift key trick).
posted 28 October 2004 06:16 AM EDT (US)     2 / 18  
Nice findings.
posted 28 October 2004 07:20 AM EDT (US)     3 / 18  
nice, and this is also why you simply cant say that this and this unit beat this and this. Nr's, meatshields, etc etc also decide. Same with choke points, free space etc.
posted 28 October 2004 07:25 AM EDT (US)     4 / 18  
yes maybe u can disable the tower or archer, but if ur playing against experts who noticed it , they can simply target another horse
posted 28 October 2004 08:28 AM EDT (US)     5 / 18  
hello_me, i'm not sure experts will have the time to micro every tower they have, and also if they did, if the other person was an expert they'd use the horse that was targeted as the new negater, if it was a horse of course
posted 28 October 2004 01:26 PM EDT (US)     6 / 18  
i've never heard of this "shift" archer fire trick. could some please explain it.

There is only one true God, but since He is not in AOM, I play as Kronos.
posted 28 October 2004 02:01 PM EDT (US)     7 / 18  
Whats a RC ?
posted 28 October 2004 02:04 PM EDT (US)     8 / 18  
Great.GJ man. RC=Raiding cavalry

The reason I play Isis???
She is too sexy to go on waste!
Who cares about a/e...

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Flaming noobs = Break from the lessons...

posted 28 October 2004 02:33 PM EDT (US)     9 / 18  
Added.

Theris264
former Age of Mythology Heaven and Age of Empires III Heaven forumer||former member of Ambition Designs
"An eye for an eye, and the whole world goes blind" -Gandhi
posted 28 October 2004 05:47 PM EDT (US)     10 / 18  
and i dont think the horse will not die if its running, there are other fires, tc fires, infantry, archer etc etc
posted 28 October 2004 06:31 PM EDT (US)     11 / 18  
Does shift clicking your archer units actually work? I've had, at best, mixed results trying this.
posted 28 October 2004 09:23 PM EDT (US)     12 / 18  

Quote:

and i dont think the horse will not die if its running, there are other fires, tc fires, infantry, archer etc etc

It is true that archers, ballista, and tower can't hit horse while they are moving but not melee units, TC fire, Petsuchos, tower/fortress/migdol/palace/hill fort with Crenellations upgrade...Of course, the horses will die even they are running.

Quote:

i've never heard of this "shift" archer fire trick. could some please explain it.

For example, take a group of archers(double click one of archers), then hold shift key and click on each of your opponenet's infantry so that all archers will fire the first infantry you clicked. Once first infantry dies, your archers will all fire second infantry automatically. But just be careful that you do not miss and click the ground next to infantry or your second/third...target moves out of archers range ;otherwise, your archers waste time moving to that spot.

posted 30 October 2004 11:44 AM EDT (US)     13 / 18  
HOw do you se the "shift" key? It it just move the cursor over all your archers so you can ove them and then hold shft and click on different enemies so tht they always shoot at the same person?

VnX_Chris_Jacques(waiting for a name chage)
www.vnxclan.net/forums
posted 30 October 2004 12:32 PM EDT (US)     14 / 18  
"shift" key = assign the job to unit in order
1) click on "shift" key on keyboard and hold on it
2) use your mouse target the first infantry you want to kill and left click your mouse(still hold on shift key)
3) click on second target
4) third and so on...
5) release your shift key
6) then your archers will follow your job order - all archers target and kill first infantry, then go to kill second infantry and so on...

[This message has been edited by a192 (edited 11-01-2004 @ 08:25 PM).]

posted 30 October 2004 05:02 PM EDT (US)     15 / 18  
Shift clicking rox for easy scouting

I think FOG.
posted 30 October 2004 10:42 PM EDT (US)     16 / 18  
I use shift for scouting, mass rax, setting up my ox cart right in front of a gold mine, and so my vils don't attack one raider and then stand there like idiots as the second raider beats on them.

I didn't know about mass inf. vs. mass cav...That's odd. Neat stuff.


Armor won't help the heart stay sharp...Shellbust Stab!
posted 31 October 2004 00:49 AM EDT (US)     17 / 18  
dont shift click your scout on maps like watering hole or you get crappy scouting.

i mainly use shift clicking to stop my villies going to gold instead of wood after i make a dropsite with greek, and to keep my villies hunting aggressive animals.

posted 01 November 2004 06:35 PM EDT (US)     18 / 18  
Interesting. Thanks. Why don't they just tell you that in the first place?
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