I am thinking of Lúthien in 3E terms, and that her "special powers" are a special type of the Perform powers (not really spells). She doesn't know enough of them to be really powerful, though (this is early in her life, before she gets Divinely powerful). This would mean that her spell list would not include the standard "Wizard" variety spells, and would actually look a bit more priestly (cure spells, for example). I generally think that the 3E spell list is more appropriate for her than the 2E Wizard list.

[This message has been edited by Beren V (edited 12-03-2004 @ 00:00 AM).]

You have a large knowledge base on both D&D and RP'ing in Forum Format Beren, so I have faith in your ability to keep the balance. So feel free to be inclusive of certain abilities and/or spells found in 3E, because, realisticly, they will enhance the character. The only true thing I disliked about 3rd Edition, was the alteration of the AC, which of course, in this format, does not apply

[This message has been edited by ShadowKin (edited 12-03-2004 @ 06:37 AM).]

Quoted from Lighthawk:

lol

Answering Bearclaw: In 2E, 9th level. In 3E, 4th level (you would already have them).

D&D as you know is a comercialized game, and the people who make it (a company called TSR) continually revises the rules to make play easier, more streamlined, as realistic as they can be to keep it streamlined and easy, and most of all, more fun. As a result there have been three major editions of Dungeons and Dragons. What most of the talk of this board so far has been about seems to be based on the Second Edition of these rules. The Third Edition is, well, the next edition, and it introduces a number of changes, the most important being a major overhaul of the multiclassing system and the introduction of incremental skills and feats. Right now, Third Edition is being refined, and they are currently calling the most refined version "Edition 3.5". The rules are online, but I have misplaced the link. If you want later, I can post it.

I am not familiar with Baldur's Gate or Icewind Dale, but from what I understand, they are modeled after Second Edition rules. For any of you familiar with Neverwinter Nights, it is modeled after Third Edition rules.

It would be possible to mesh 2E characters and 3E characters in the same game. 2E characters (and monsters) however are typically weaker in terms of their stats than 3E characters and monsters if directly converted as such, largely because of the inclusion of feats (special abilities) that 2E does not have. I personally like 3E better, although I have never liked the 3E multiclassing system for spellcasters (large-scale multiclassing of spellcasters in 3E just isn't practical). Nonetheless, 3E in my opinion is superior to 2E in so many other ways that I prefer to use 3E anyway, especially if I get to make my own classes that use skill-based magical powers (which the bard already has, for example).

If someone could find a link to a comprehensive, yet not too chaotic, run-down of 3rd, that would be good. Everyone who is serious about partaking in this quest,and trying a more guided form of Role-Play, will find it both fun and challenging I think.

Not to mention, I could use a dust up on 3rd. I was introduced into 2nd, and became a big fan...

---ShadowKin---

And who suggested that? Just wondering ... it's a good twist, though

Speaking of which, as we are going to a more strict, mechanic-based setting, the Lúthien-ability score problem has to be solved. Right now, I am thinking of her as having very good stats, but being only second level (instead of fourth). Overall, this makes her comparable (though possibly a little weaker) than the rest of the party mechanistically, but it means that she can be smart enough to act in a thoughtful manner as well as have what it takes statistically to be an effective bard.

Quote:

I replied about this in the thread. It was a good reaction considering. Nothing wrong with it.

And I came up with the idea, names of the three Demi Gods and their areas-of-power, due to the need to bring out your character as a priest(cleric).

Concerning the rules and mechanics:

The Prelude shall remain freestyle. When I have the time however, I may actually go read up on 3rd Edition, and create the basic stats, usuing what has already been stated, of the characters. (Those who are capable of doing this themselves, may do so.) Once a basic 'character-sheet' has been generated for all party members, and accepted, then I will experiment with ways to do this within the prelude.

---ShadowKin---

If you could aid in the Character generation, and tweaking of existing 3rd Edition rules, that would allow me more free reign to generate some encounters and so forth.

Considering I have NWN on my PC, I may actually use the template stats for given monsters, and implement them, once character generation is complete. I will create a basic Character Sheet for Myroj also, and will determine his stats/skills by first creating him within NWN, and leveling him up to 4.

I'll begin working on some pre-planned encounters for the RolePlay. We can continue to work out details as we go.

Also, Beren or Lighthawk (given the knowledge you both have of 3rd) in around 1 - 2 months time perhaps, I may be moving overseas, and may be gone for a while. In the event this happens, would either of you be willing to continue on with the Trilogy, as DM? (even if the prelude has finished)

Re: my characters - I think that's been solved, if we use my proposed solution (second level with superb stats, while the rest of you are fourth level with less impressive but still above average stats). But I don't want to impose that without letting you people have a say in it, since you're playing in it, too.

Don't worry too much about what your characters AC, HP, damage or attack bonus is, in my next post I will provide that information.

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Combat:

DM:
The DM needs to provide the players with the AC (armor class) HP (hit points) attack bonus, number of attacks, special abilities (if any) and damage of the enemies. He also needs to tell how much AC is modified by dexterity and the “touch AC” (how hard the enemy is to hit with touch attacks). He should also tell how many combat rounds he will allow the players to fight without DM interaction. (I think 2-3 will be best in most cases)

Players:
In the number of combat rounds the DM allows, the players can control both their own characters and the direct opponents of those characters.

In one Combat round a player can make 2 move actions, 1 move action and 1 one standard action or 1 full round action. A combat round takes 6 seconds (so a spell that last a minute will last 10 combat rounds).

Move actions: Walk 30 feet (20 in heavy armor) or run 60 feet (40 in heavy armor), loading a crossbow, pick up an item, Stand up from laying down, Draw a weapon or any similar action

Standard actions Attack once with main attack, cast a spell (some spells take a full round or longer to cast, see the spell description) drink a potion, use a wand or scroll or any similar action.

Full round actions: main attack + secondary attack(s), casting a full round spells, Total defense Coup de Grace.

Any action done when in melee range of enemies that prevent you from defending yourself will provoke an attack of Opportunity (a free attack) Examples are: Moving away from an enemy, casting a spell, using a ranged weapon, Stand up from prone, take something from your backpack and so on…

In addition to this you can also make reasonable number free actions. Free actions are anything that takes almost no time. Free actions never provoke attacks of Opportunity.

You can use a move action to safely disengage from an enemy (by moving backwards about 10 feet) but that only works if the enemy for some reason won't follow you. (Rule added for realism; replace the "5 foot step")

Who attacks first?:
If the you think your character is faster then the enemy (or has a longer weapon) let him attack first otherwise let them attack at the same time or let the enemy attack first.

Attacking:
In order to attack an opponent or make an opponent attack you will need to roll a d20 (20 sided dice, you can use Dicelab for that) and then add the attack bonus with the used weapon and any modifier that affect that attack (like a spell, bard song or combat option) if the number you get is higher than AC (modified by the factors below) of the opponent the attack is successful.

A roll of 1 always misses and a roll of 20 always hit.

Things that affect attack bonus and AC:
Some spells (read spell descriptions for details)
Flaking: If someone is attacked from 2 sides his attackers will get +2 to attack bonus.
Fighting defensively: You can choose to fight defensively in a round, that will give you + 2 to AC but also 4 to attack bonus.
Total defense: If you chose to do nothing but defend yourself in a round, you will get +4 to AC.
Some bard songs.
Helpless: anyone that can’t move (because he is asleep, unconscious, paralyzed or restrained) will suffer a -4 to AC against melee attacks and lose his dexterity bonus to AC.
Surprise attack: anyone that is surprised by an attack will lose his dexterity bonus to AC.
Blinded: -2 to AC and no dexterity bonus to AC.
Cover: Any obstacle between an attacker and his target will provide the target with a cover bonus to AC between +1 and +8 depending of how much cover the obstacle provides. (A player can decide that himself)
Concealment: If an attacker has difficulties to see his target he will have a 20% miss chance, if he can’t see the target at all he will have a 50% miss chance.
Attacker Invisible: +2 to attack bonus (only works on targets with vision)
Prone: -4 to attack bonus, -4 to AC against Melee, +4 to AC against ranged
Kneeling or sitting: -2 to attack bonus (no penalty for firing ranged Weapons) -2 to AC against Melee, +2 to AC against ranged.
Firing into melee: Ranged attacks on enemies that are in melee with friendly characters suffer a -4 to attack bonus unless the attacker has the Precise Shot feat.
Range penalty: Ranged attacks suffer a range penalty starting with -1 at 150 feet and ending with -4 at 900 feet. (I made this rule as I could find nothing about range in the D&D rules)

Damage:
When someone takes a hit, roll for damage (2d6 + 4 for example means: roll a 6 sided dice 2 times adding the results and then add 4)
Critical hits: Every weapon has a critical hit range. A long sword for example has 19-20 x 2, witch means that on an attack dice roll of 20 or 19 you will do 2 times the normal damage.

(Additional rule added for realism and flexibility)
When you get a modified attack roll that is 7 (or more) higher than what you need to hit an opponent, you can target a specific body part. You can do so to create a handicap on the opponent (like target the eyes to blind, or an arm to disarm) or you target a woundable spot to do 50% more damage than normal.

Spells:
The DM should remember to tell the players if any of the enemies has spell resistance and how much they have.

If the players understand well enough how a spell they cast works, and it is a simple spell that don’t require a saving throw to be made, the players can calculate the effects of such spells themselves (examples are: magic missile, summoning spells, many ray and touch spells and most spells cast on friends). More complicated spells that do require saving throws to be made should be left to the DM to decide the effect of (examples are: entangle, web, fire ball, bane, hold person, charm spells).

When using touch and ray spells you will need to make a touch or a ranged touch attack. This is done as normal for melee or ranged attacks, but the targets touch AC should be used instead of its normal AC. The modifiers to melee and ranged attacks listed under “Things that affect attack bonus and AC” are still in effect.
On an attack roll of 20 you will score a critical hit (for double damage) with touch and ray spells.

Skills:
I think using skills will be too complicated for many players, so every time a player do something skill related he should let the DM decide what the result is.

------------------------------------------------------------ ----------------------------------------------------------

Here is an example of how all this could work in the forum

DM post:

To goblins attack Lighthawk on his scouting mission. They are 150 feet away

3 rounds of combat are allowed

Goblin 1:
AC: 15 (+1 size, +1 Dex, +2 leather armor, +1 light shield), touch 12
Attack: Short sword +2 melee
Damage: 1d6 Critical 19-20/x2
HP: 5

Goblin 2:
AC: 14 (+1 size, +1 Dex, +2 leather armor), touch 12
Attack: Short spear +2 melee
Damage: 1d6 Critical 20/x2
HP: 6

------------------------------------------------------------ ----------------------------------------------------------

Player post:

With the goblins rushing towards him Lighthawk concentrate and cast a spell on himself, soon a force armor is surrounding his body {mage armor, AC 13 + 4 = 17}
The first is goblin {goblin 1} is closing in on Lighthawk when he cast another spell. A splash of acid hits the goblin in the eyes. {Ranged touch attack R 15 + 5 = 22 > 12 hit (8 higher) damage 2, (3 hp left)} The goblin is blinded and slows down. Lighthawk use his staff to parry a spear trust from the other goblin. {Goblin 2: attack R 13 + 2 = 15 < 17 miss} He then retaliates with a crushing blow to the goblins shoulder. {Attack R 11 + 4 = 15 > 14 hit, damage R 4 +1 = 5 (1 hp left)} The goblin screams in pain, but manages to stay on its feet. Thinking that the other goblin is out of the fight Lighthawk is surprised when the blinded goblin hit him in the stomach with a lucky trust of his sword. {Goblin 1: concealment check 50% = hit, attack R 19 + 2 = 21 > 17 hit, critical damage R 4 x 2 = 8 (Lighthawk has 22 hp left)}

[This message has been edited by Kris Lighthawk (edited 12-16-2004 @ 07:10 PM).]

There are two errors in Lighthawk's post.

1. Taking a five-foot step is a move action that moves you out of range of an enemy's melee attack and does not provoke an attack of opportunity. You can thus disengage a foe. However, a five-foot step when the enemy can move thirty feet is not much unless you are stepping away to hide behind a friend. The enemy can otherwise just follow you.

2.

Quoted from lighthawk:

A sword-thrust to the stomach is a fatal wound. Something which hits but is not fatal should not be described as something that would be deadly (or even incapacitating).

For this reason, I like a vitality/wounds sysetem, where characters have wound points (actual hit points), and vitality points (representing fatigue, spent luck, and minor cuts and bruises). Just about any major hit with a real weapon like a sword or spear is going to be incapacitating if not fatal. Here is an example:

Beren (17 hp) is attacked by [Goblin] with a bow. Goblin fires (16) and hits (Beren's AC is 12-14 or so). Goblin rolls (d6), rolls a 4. Beren is now at 13 hp. He certainly isn't dead, incapacitated, or even terribly wounded. Instead, he dodges the arrow, the arrow not actually making contact with his body, but the fatigue of the last-moment dodge costs him 4 hp. A few rounds later, he is at 3 hp, and takes an identical wound, and goes negative. Using the Death's Door rules (not very realistic, but hey), he falls. I also think that mandating that he should be unconscious is also unrealistic - people can be incapacitatingly wounded and bleeding to death and be quite conscious. Then somebody heals him, of course.

[This message has been edited by Accusync72 (edited 12-16-2004 @ 08:44 PM).]