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[This message has been edited by Accusync72 (edited 12-07-2004 @ 07:04 PM).]

My appologies; what we have here is a misunderstanding of the rules. I was playing more-or-less by the forum format the guidelines of which are in a sticky thread posted to the top of this forum. To wit, it gives an example of what sorts of things the PCs could do with the GM's characters: In particular, "the ninja assassins sent against the PCs can be dispatched by nearly any member of the party - that's what they're there for. The fat bejeweled mage who has been behind the past three attacks should not be - the GM may have future plans for him."

Basically, the standard forum rules. Now, if we really do have a DM, and everything we do needs to be checked by him/her first to see whether it succeeds or fails or not, then that's fine. This wasn't immediately apparent to me. I will note that this roleplay will go slower than molasses if we do that, though (almost as badly as if we actually had stats and dice and such). Anyhow, I am not DMing. If we are doing a more DM-controlled style, we can.

The Prelude, as I thought i had stated before, is more a free-lance and 'get-in-mode' style. The particulars of the actual Trilogy campaign have not been finalized, and thus, i am not too concerned about the 'attack and kill' statements made by characters; at THIS point.

I was referring to the actual Trilogy campaign, which shall follow the prelude, that attack and kill statements really can't be warranted. I intended the Prelude for those who have not as yet experienced RPing, or Forgotten Realms, to get a feel.

If you wish to put my Control of the prelude to a Vote, or discussion, feel free. I did not want to be to strict with the prelude, for I am just trying to ascertain everyones persona's, reactions and playing styles. Bearclaw, having more knowledge than I, will more than likely moderate the Trilogy Campaign. I set the Prelude in motion to ward off desertion whilst the actual schematics and rulings of the Trilogy were worked out. I was not intending to let everyone continue dictating 'deaths'; I merely was trying to place characters, not players, in certain situations, so as the DM, I could understand a little more of how they think/react.

If this is not acceptable, or warrants further debate, we can bring the Tribunal to Order...

---ShadowKin---

I am not sure that further discussion is needed, other than merely to decide what to do. A structured game with an arbiter (the DM) has some advantages: it establishes a greater deal of accountability of the characters' actions, and to some extent (depending on how characters are played) an increased degree of the unexpected. However, having to consult the DM every time somebody wants to make the forum equivalent of an attack roll requires waiting for the DM to be available to post the results.

In my experience, it is usually people leaving and breaking story continuity that breaks forum roleplays. If a roleplay drags on and on, the chance of this increases. I tried to run a game set in the AoW-verse three separate times, and Black Hound's previous incarnations of what is now the War's End roleplay died for similar reasons.

I'm not going to say Aye or Nay. In fact I think I said everything I have to say. The DM (Shadowkin, I guess) can run it the way that (s)he likes. I think it's fun, and will participate according to the rules either way.

Remember that Tank-Man speaks Grue-ish!

Bearclaw: sounds great, which ever way you guys decide, i dont know if everyone read my background to this story that i kind of explained back in the Red Dragon inn to know why we started this, but thats ok, if you dont want to follow it and have other ideas go for it. then i wont need to try to explain other thing i had planned. info and all that...you know. i was going to leave the wagons at my home settlement and ride horseback, because the terrain past cliffton is a little rough for wagons and the trail becomes a path after a bit. so if you would like to keep going as DM,go for it, and you can just fit that in where it works for you. everyone is doing great i think and i'm having fun reading, i'll just play my ranger as just another ranger then, but thats ok, i can relax and not wonder how i can get info to ya about my father, mother , step sister, where they are and all that, it looks like it will be too complicated anyway for how everyone wants to play. you all will have more time to come up with the story, and it sounds like Shadowkin has some ideas going now. thanks.

Bearclaw:

I have a 'journey' planned out on paper, concerning the Prelude. It is my hope that it will last long enough so we can develop a fair/understandable/realistic system to utilize for the Trilogy Campaign. My journey, will ultimately end at Howthen (Howth-en), as I have mapped out. From there, Myroj will obtain what he came for, and the Trilogy can begin. The DMing of the Trilogy, can be shared, or you can do it alone. But we first must iron out details, as to how this can work, in a Forum format. Beren has raised some good points.

I shall email you in the next couple of days, so we can begin working out the schematics. The Prelude will keep the story flowing until we can be sure, with Player approval, that a workable system has been found.

Bearclaw:well...i cant seem to find the giants dungeon, and i drive truck and i lay over in Detroit tomorrow, so i wont be able to post tomorrow night. and who knows how often that will happen in the coming weeks. its probably a bad idea for me to DM. any way. if someone can get a hold of the giants dungeon it would be good, even if it is just for the already thought out rooms and monsters and treasure and all the info on them.

I agree with Beren, consulting the DM every time somebody wants to make the forum equivalent of an attack roll, would slow the role play down a lot. The DM would have to be very active for just making the speed tolerable and even then could very well be too slow for the story to ever come to an end.

One way we could make things more rule based without slowing the role play down too much, could be to let players make attack and damage rolls themselves when fighting minor enemies.
The DM could specify at before the battle witch monsters he will allow the players to fight without consulting the DM (he would need to provide AC and hp, base attack and damage for those enemies) and how many combat rounds of combat he will allow without DM control
As for actually making the rolls there is an excellent free ware program called Dicelab that can simulate any dice roll you want.

This may be a very effective idea. Considering that mostly enemies encountered WILL be lowly minions, and if players are generally honest with the outcomes of rolls, as a DM, during an encounter, I could give the basic vitals for all creatures involved, number them within the thread, and all the player would have to do, is post which 'number' they were attacking, and the outcome of 'To Hit' and 'Damage' rolls. So far this has been the closest possible thing to genuine D&D, without slowing it down too much. It will be well to keep this idea in discussion, and perhaps have a vote. Lighthawk may have found the solution to a very big issue.
The only time, this way, that the thread would really slow down dramatically, would be wen an encounter or situation of epic proportions became involved. And they could be minimized as much as possible.

Considering your knowledge, and understanding of what we aim for here Lighthawk, I am recommending you to become a member of the High Seats of Office.

What say you Beren? Bearclaw?

EDIT: I have downloaded the die-roll generator, and it would be a perfect substitute for 'pen and paper' interaction.

If we decide that this is indeed the way to do this, within the campaign, then I will make all players aware of its need.

[This message has been edited by ShadowKin (edited 12-08-2004 @ 07:24 AM).]

Bearclaw: that sounds like it might work well, another thought is that the players are "heroes" and it could be considered that the players score an automatic "hit" on their first attack and a "successful action" on their first manuver or move, reducing the die roll even further.
a vote of yes from me for lighthawk on the high council.

If somebody has an opinion to contribute, I see no reason why it should not be contributed. Why should Lighthawk not be considered for this? I think his idea is a good idea, personally.

I do have some realism-related beef with the D&D combat mechanics, however, just for the record.

[This message has been edited by Beren V (edited 12-08-2004 @ 10:47 PM).]

So it is agreed that:

A) Lighthawks ideas be put in practice (sometime within the prelude would be best as a test-run)

B) Lighthawk is placed within the High Seats?

Having the players conduct the combats in this format, will eliminate time constraints. And if all relevant information is given, and the player has an understanding how to conduct the combat, for the given number of rounds, it will be the most productive way of playing out a RP with as many Die-Mechanics as possible.

(Even now, given I have the generator, I will be using it for certain behind the scenes checks within the Prelude.)

Agreed.

Ok, if we are going to use my ideas, we will first need to decide what rule system we ar going to use.

I would very much prefer that we use 3th edition rules. I find the them better and more flexible then earlier editions, and I know them better as they have been used in the last few games I have played (computer games, I have never played pen and paper RPG) I also believe that 3th edition rules are easier to learn and understand for players new to D&D.

for us less-knowing dimwits, what are the 3th edition rules?

I of course meant to write 3rd edition rules
The official rules for how to play D&D has been changed from time to time the 3rd edition (or to be more precise version 3.5) is the latest version of the rules, and in my opinion it is far better than the earlier versions.

[This message has been edited by Kris Lighthawk (edited 12-09-2004 @ 09:05 PM).]

Third Edition is fine by me.

I disliked how they changed the workings of the AC and eliminated the original thac0 (To Hit Armor Class Zero).

I have only played with 3rd edition via PC, with Neverwinter Nights and IceWind Dale.

I haven't mastered them as yet, so I may need some correcting and/or aid during the course of things.

---ShadowKin---

Bearclaw:3rd edition will be new to us as well, seeing how the players seem to like the way its been going, maybe the thing to do is to just keep going the same way. The DM. gives the players a senario and the players tell what happens(creative writing) and as some of you said if we try to play it as more of a game it may be to restrictive and time consuming to do, on these wonderful things they call computers. but if everyone would like to try a test run we would say try it.

Maybe we should have a vote out of three options:

1)Try a test run with some 3rd edition mechanics within the Prelude.

2)Continue the Prelude as creative writing style, and keep the same for the actual 'Trilogy'.

3)Continue the Prelude as is, and decide as we go on any changes to mechanics for the 'Trilogy'.

I would be happier with either choice. Freelance creative writing style will run smoother, and quicker, with DM only having to make minor dictations/changes as it goes along. Aslong as the player has a basic understanding of their characters limitations, it will be workable.

Mechanics and die rolling also has its own advantages, but in truth, may be too tedious for a Forum Format.

For now, i'll keep the Prelude freelance, and make nay dictations to a characters actions as I see necessary, but some things may go left unchanged. So it is best understood now, that no actual mechanics are involved; I will make judgment calls within the thread as it goes, altering things as I see necessary. If any major argument arises, we can discuss it, whilst keeping the story flowing in character-interaction mode, until the 'dispute' is decided.

---ShadowKin---

Bearclaw: i'd say lets keep going like we are. the DM. or who ever would like too(we don't have any books for info, i guess we could go buy some but they are kind of expencive) keep track of the players xp points and let them know when they level and get additional and improved abilities. or maybe post some kind of chart with the different classes and races that we all are and can refer to to keep track of when we level up ourselves, the DM. will know the total number of xp points in a given senario, and maybe just devide it up evenly among the players. and maybe giving individual xp points for good moves or individual kills that defenitly benifit the group. what say ye?

Som form of experience will be necessary, to grant the characters the enhanced abilities that come with leveling up. It could just be given a certain circumstance/action, any/all characters may be leveled up. I will keep a rough track of things concerning the prelude, and add any non-combat XP I think a character deserves.
Leveling up will be tedious for some, so when the time comes, everyone may have to be patient.

i say keep it all a creative writing. it's the best ideea, seeng as some of us don't know any of those d&d rules....

Keep it the way it is now.

ShadowKin, I hate to criticize you as a DM, because I think you are generally doing a very good work, but now and then I think you make decisions about player actions, that only the players should make themselves, and that takes away some of the players free will.
The latest and IMO worse example of this is this one:

Quote:

Spell memorization don't work that way, especially not for wizards. A wizard will chose one spell from his spell book and read the spell over and over again (without saying the words out loud) until the words stands perfectly in his mind. When casting the spell the words will be deleted from his mind and will have to be memorized again.
This means that what spell he will memorize is very much a wizard's own choice, and Ramsees may very well want to
memorize another spell then Unseen Servant so by deciding that he memorize Unseen Servant you take away his free will, something a DM should never do IMO.

Another thing I may as well mention now, is that in 3rd edition rules clerics are no longer confide to only using blunt weapons, so Sul should be able to continue using her dagger.
In order to not change what have already happened you could just say that one or more of the gods contacting her dislike the use of pointed/sharp weapons

Two comments in response to Lighthawk:

1. Wizards in 3E do not necessarily memorize spells the way that they do in 2E; instead, they prepare them, setting up the material components, etc. I suppose that the mental excercizes and deletion of words from a wizard's mind is one way it could work, but not the only way.

2. Different deities can require different weapons be used, and even in 2E, there are specialty priests who use weapons other than the standard "Cleric" weapon list. The "Cleric" weapon list refers to the historical medieval practice by which priests - not militant monks orders like the Knights Templar, but medieval priests - were not supposed to draw blood, so when they fought, they would use impact weapons like maces and hammers. This is a specifically Christian, and even more specifically a medieval Christian, belief. It is of course entierly possible for a deity of Shadowkin's design to use blunt weapons, and indeed blunt weapons would be more effective against certain undead types like skeletons (one of the classic "Cleric's enemies"), so it is reasonable that they might prefer such weapons. Nonetheless, Lighthawk is corret: it is world-specific, and 3E does not require the use of blunt weapons for clerics. Instead, the Cleric is proficient with all simple weapons, which includes daggers, staves, maces, morningstars, spears, crossbows, slings, and such. A Cleric with the War domain has proficiency in the favored weapon of his or her deity, which can be anything, but is specific to the deity.

--

As a side note on spells, while Wizards, Clerics, and Druids in 3E do prepare spells, Bards and Sorcerers do not. They know spells, and have a (very limited) reprotoire of spells that they know, and a given number of spell slots. A bard or sorcerer can cast any spell that he or she knows on the spur of the moment and as many times as he or she likes until he or she runs out of spell slots. The trade-off is having a very limited list of spells to choose from (once you learn a spell, you can't replace it with another spell by any means short of a Wish or something similar).

I appreciate the feedback guys.

Not being too familiar with the entirety of 3rd Edition, i truly wasn't aware that Clerics were not restricted by weapon type. I will just leave the restrictions of Blunt weapons for now, and formulate some ideas as to what may occur, depending on Suls choice of Deity.

I tend to agree with you Lighthawk. That was badly done, concerning Ramsees. But I felt as though, whilst everyone else was scouting etc, Ramsees character was idle (fair enough; a necessity for a Magic user regaining spells) but i also looked at it from a Players perspective, and did not want Ramsees, the Player, to become stagnant within the RP.

I'll keep what has been said in mind. By all means, if I slip up again, don't hesitate to tell me. Not being too familiar with 3rd, I may do it without realizing, by slipping back into 2E mode.

I'll try and smooth out the bumps, I inadvertantly caused.

---ShadowKin---

Question: Can Bearclaw hear the fight taking place in the forest? I thought it was miles away.

Bearclaw:You might be right Beren, i understood that the goblins were watching from the edge of the forest, then retreated a little back to their barricades they had. i could have been mistaken, sorry about that.

i think you both(Beren and Lighthawk) have good points, but what you guys are discussing is part of the "Creative writing" part....here's why.(you 2 might have been discussing this in the other thread, and i appolagise)

my ranger lets say has 48hps. he is hit 2 times by the goblins, one time for 2hps another for 3hps but its a critical hit, and if i understand the way you are saying critical hits go; it's x2...so a total of 8hps.....my ranger is in NO danger,and scores 2 hits in return, now comes the creative writing , if you want to say you feal more tired or however you would write it, go for it. i would say
*the ranger,after brushing off the weak attack slices the goblin in half and continues his swing around to meet his assailent to his left knowing the little beast would try to stay clear of the huge blade, BUT the goblin seeing the ranger swing first, away from it, was guicker with its attack than the ranger anticipated. its weapon hitting the ranger in the side but glancing off his armor only making a small cut.*if a giant, it would do a LOT more damage and the creative writing would indicate it much like when Ayuth wrote about it when he went down fighting the harpies.

I look at hit points as "skill and experiance gained" to avoid damage. if my ranger was first level with only lets say 10hps,he is in deep trouble with only 2hps left.I still say it would be ok to say that everyones first hit is successful.only rolling to see if its a critical or not.

if the DM says there are 3 attackers you have to deal with, who knows how many someone else has. you need to roll 3 times to see how many time you hit and miss. and 3 times for the attackers to see how many times they hit or miss.adjusted by the number of attacks any given attacker may have or you for that matter. obviously first figuring out what it takes for you and the attacker to hit and then finding the damage done and all the other things involved.

this seems to me anyway a way to keep everyone playing with the rules(if they are honest about being hit or not)and leaves huge room for creative writing.for the ones who are having fun with that.

maybe i'm way out in left field about the whole thing,but this may help in keeping the story moving. and if you keep getting hit and are taken down to 1 or 0 hps or whatever number is agreed upon where you have to fall down you better hope a compadray is around to help

i think if you try to bring in the things you 2 where talking about(these things ARE happening every time you battle,of that there is no question)it might be too encumbering for the forum.but this is all still new to me so please forgive me if i'm not quit understanding it all.

[This message has been edited by Accusync72 (edited 12-18-2004 @ 08:07 AM).]

Concerning the camp and battle:

Because I am still physically mapping and scaling all the area out, I may miss some things.
Your question is fair one, and in response, noone currently at camp, can hear any signs of battle. The distance (roughly in miles) would be 1.5. Those present at camp know that Myroj, Eros and Roadamer have gone in after the Goblins, but apart from Luthien and Berens knowledge, none know what is currently occuring.
As time goes on, more and more will be cemented upon paper in true dimensions, so bear with me.

Also, I am not that good at measurement conversion, and I ask anyone who can provide the following, to please do. (My computer is not holding long enough for me to run searches at the moment.)

The base distance is 100 feet.
How many meters is that? Roughly I guess 33.
How many feet in a mile?