Strange Lands Mod [was LOW] - Age of Wonders Heaven Forum

Topic Subject: Strange Lands Mod [was LOW]

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Griffith
Member

posted 09-12-08 10:27 PM EDT (US)

Quasi-familiar world, filled with surprising adventures.

Intro video (oldish)

Features:

- 15 new Races, each with unique style, strengths and weaknesses.
- Units have 20% reduced Attack, Defense and Resistance scores, compared to the original version.
- 30 new wizards and new wizard ability and skill pick system.
- 70+ heroes, new hero classes and level upgrades.
- New Spell Schools (previously Spheres), with many new spells and icons.
- Over 70 new artifacts, some with "special" properties.
- Many new sounds for units.
- 800+ units, ranging usually between levels 0 to 8. Exploring them all might take a while.

- Converted to MPE patch, providing many nice extra features.

You can see more details below and some additional info can be found in the Strange Lands Docs once you install the mod.

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

Install order:

1. uPatch 1.4
2. 3-in-1 pack
3. MP Evolution 1.5
4. Strange Lands 2.0 (420mb)

Notice!
You need to use MPE-Setup to enable the mod. Set English language and Strange Lands -custom resources there, and run Strange Lands Mod.exe (or use the link provided) to play the mod. Campaign wont work with this mod, but random maps should work just fine. There are also few custom maps converted to the mod now, see below.

Have fun.

P.S. Thanks to hatstand for previously hosting the SL mod files for a long time.

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

Custom maps:

Strange Lands of Non by Dorbungan
Unexpected Conflict by Fly
Converted:
Strange Promising Land by Tendril
Strange Vikings by Tendril
Strange Valleys of the Lost II by Galumbovic
Anarchy and Treachery by Oleg123

In case some map is made for earlier version, you can convert it by selecting Strange Lands -custom resources in MPE setup, opening the map you want to convert with the MPE editor, and simply save it.

\/~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ Overview ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~\/

___________________________________ Good races ___________________________________

Revenants [dwarf]
+ Units are relatively strong for their price, with good protection abilities. Undead ability gives even more protections.
- Units actually get weaker with experience, especially at gold medal. Being undead can be a weakness as well.

Visitors [syron]
+ Units have haste and invisibility, making this an excellent sneaking race. Towns get very strong research bonus. The race has strong ranged attackers.
- Units can be bit costly for their combat effectiveness. Towns get major penalty at growth and some penalty to production as well.

Ain�r [archons]
+ Can make some of the strongest units in game, and just generally looks cool. Mana and research bonus.
- Units are expensive and cost more upkeep than in average. In addition, towns have gold penalty as well, so gold might be in short supply.

Alliance [halfling]
+ Very diverse selection of trainable units. Because of the diverse population, gets some bonus to gold, mana, production and growth.
- Is not especially strong at anything, but relatively good in everything.

Enchanted Forest [elf]
+ Units can be quite sneaky, and on top of that, the town can be hidden in a huge forest as well. Can make powerfull ents at early stages in the game.
- Most units are tiny and have low hitpoints.

__________________________________ Neutral races __________________________________

Viking [frostling]
+ Strong melee units, and all of them have willpower. They can also move in snow and water at ease.
- Not very good ranged abilities. Towns get some production bonus, but nothing else.

Consortium [tigran]
+ Most units have summoned property, so you can save your gold income. Towns have great mana income bonus.
- Units being summoned, you can run out of mana easily, and the units have extra weaknesses.

Avian [nomads]
+ Most units can fly, and they have good vision. The towns can be sent flying as well, and act as transports.
- Units can be bit squishy.

Automatons [humans]
+ Units have good amount of protection abilities. They are mechanical as well, so they have even additional immunities. Towns have huge production bonus.
- Mechanical units mean additional weknesses as well. They also have lightning weakness, and mana penalty.

Dragonkin [draconians]
+ Lots of morphing abilities. Units also have swimming. Powerfull priest units. Mana and reseach bonus.
- Most units have kinda low defense value.

____________________________________ Evil races ____________________________________

Legion [dark elf]
+ Strong fire and death based abilities. Can train godlike Balrogs at top tier.
- Many units have holy or secret weakness.

Undead
+ Many units have physical protection or resurgence. High level units are possessed. Good research bonus.
- Most units have holy weakness. Not good at scouting.

Gremlins [shadow demon]
+ Tricky units, who commonly have sabotage, taunt and repair machine. Units can also multiply and grow stronger in battle. Awesome growth rate and some mana bonus.
- Low level units can be bit squishy, and most units have cold weakness. Production penalty.

Beastmen [orc]
+ Lots of trainable units, and they are relatively cheap. Good growth rate and mana bonus.
- Units are beasts, so they could be easily controlled by certain units.

Giants [goblin]
+ Units have huge amount of hitpoints, they can move through most terrain easily and are immune to entangle. Awesome production rate.
- Units move bit slowly, and have low resistance. Growth penalty.

____________________________________________________________

Also most buildable units can morph to better form atleast once at gold medal

*Race in [] means the replaced race

___________________________________________________________

Magic Schools

(Idea for new spheres by Merkraad)

Thaumaturgy
One of the two schools that have more diverse types of spells. Thaumaturgis main speciality is health affecting spells, having 5 of those. It also has spells like Holy Light, Turn Undead and Holy Champion to combat forces of evil.
Thaumaturgy has total of 5 combat spells, 2 combat attack spells, 3 summoning spells, 4 overmap spells, 3 general enchantments and 4 unit enchantments.

Necromancy
The other school that has diverse types of spells. Necromancers command the forces of death and darkness with great skill. He is specialized on the undead, having spells like Animate Hero, Animate Dead, Animate Ruins, Animate Dragon and Create Undead. Also they have spells like Power Word Fear, Rot, Infection, Corpus Furia, Weaken and Poison Ray to throw at enemies in combat. It is also one of the few schools that can learn Mastery spell, but at an increased cost.
Necromancy has total of 5 combat spells, 3 combat attack spells, 3 summoning spells, 5 overmap spells, 4 general enchantments and 2 unit enchantments.

Alteration
Alterers specialize in bringing changes on the general environment. They can alter terrain with spells like Mist, Spiders Curse, Freeze Water, Clear Terrain, Level and Raise Terrain etc, and also they have very strong General Enchantment spells. They can also learn Mastery spell at reduced cost.
Alteration has total of 3 combat spells, 1 combat attack spells, 1 summoning spells, 6 overmap spells, 10 general enchantments and 2 unit enchantments.

Conjuration
Conjurers specialize in conjuring various creatures to their aid, and sometimes forces of nature. Their summoning spells are generally cheaper than those of other schools, and they are very diverse. They can also learn spells like Conjure Comet, Call Tremors, City Quake and Tornado.
Conjuration has total of 2 combat spells, 2 combat attack spells, 12 summoning spells, 5 overmap spells, 2 general enchantments and 1 unit enchantment.

Evocation
Evokers command the forces of destruction like no other. Their Combat attack spells are generally cheaper than those of other schools, and they are very diverse. They also have spells like Storm, Forge Blast, Fire Storm, Tornado and Fire Domain for blasting enemies from afar.
Evocation has total of 2 combat spells, 9 combat attack spells, 2 summoning spell, 5 overmap spells, 1 general enchantment and 1 unit enchantment.

Enchantment
Enchanters can fortify their units with wide variety of unit enchantments, and also use certain Power Words and charms on enemy units.
Enchantment has total of 4 combat spells, 1 combat attack spell, 2 summoning spell, 1 overmap spell, 2 general enchantments and 11 unit enchantments.

Cosmos
Cosmos spells are available for all wizards, regardless of their school. There are some spells that will be available only on certain conditions though, like Spell of Mastery is only available for multiclass wizards and Mighty -enchantment can only be gotten if Shadow World is available. In addition to more general type of spells, Cosmos spells include some usefull summoning and enchanting spells, alltough theyre generally pretty expensive.
Cosmos has total of 5 combat spells, 1 combat attack spell, 2 summoning spells, 4 overmap spells, 5 general enchantments and 3 unit enchantments.

____________________________________________________________

New abilities:
(At least some of them)

Clarity [Crusader]
Gives Willpower & Immunity to Drain Will.

Prismatic Breath [Cold Breath]
Deals Fire, Cold and Lightning damage. Only for some of the most powerfull units..

Aimed Shot [Fire Crossbow]
13ATT, 7DAM, extra long range, 1 shot. Advanced archer skill.

Kill Shot [Throw Spear]
10ATT, 15DAM, long range, 1 shot / day. Advanced archer skill.

Gunfire [Poison Darts]
11ATT, 6DAM, medium range, 3 shots. Powerfull ranged attack for some advanced technological units.

Psychic Attack [Shoot Javelin]
12ATT, 8DAM, unlimited range. Magic and holy damage types. Combined with seeker, this ability can be real nasty..

Energy Beams [Lightning Bolts]
10ATT, 5DAM, long range, 3 shots. Lightning and magic damage. Doom gaze animation.

Corrosive Breath [Fire Breath]
11ATT, 7DAM, breath attack. Physical and wall damage. New breath attack with physical damage type attacks defense instead of resistance and damages walls.

Smite [Spread Attack]
10ATT, 10DAM, holy damage. Divine storm animation.

Secret Weakness [Dragon]
Powerfull units have this attribute, and also some other strange creatures. Slayer ability [Dragon Slaying] gives +5 ATT against these.

Might [Shadow Walking]
Gives +2 to all stats, allows immunity to shadow sickness, and disables Changeling ability from unit. The temporeal version of this ability gives +1 to all stats, and any unit can get it from the Altar of Might [Shadow Weed], except the units that allready got permanent version (or enchantment) of this ability.

Normal [Shadow Walker]
Allows immunity to shadow sickness, and disables Changeling ability from unit. All units in game have either this ability or the Might ability, meaning that all units are immune to shadow sickness and cant use changeling ability. Normal unit is able to get temporeal version of Mighty ability.

Dragonkin Growth [Draconian Growth]
Allows Dragonkin Warriors to become either Dragonkin Nobles or Allosaurs at gold medal.

Natures Blessing [Free Movement]
Nature lends its aid for the unit. Gives free movement, +2RES and immunity to entangle.

Rune of Mastery [Wind Walking]
Allows a Unit to Float across all Terrain, gives +2ATT and immunity to freezing.

Multiply [Devour]
Gives the Unit a chance to steal it's Targets life force with each Melee Strike and, when a unit is disintegrated, produce a Gremlin in a new combat round.

____________________________________________________________

Hero Classes:
(Some possible quidelines..)

Champion [Warrior]
- Decent ATT, high DEF, high HP
- Block, extra strike, mounted, polearm, physical protection and other protections are common
- Leadership I and holy or unholy champion, willpower at start

Bard [Paladin]
- Decent RES, decent HP
- Aimed shot, taunt, pixie dust and seduce are common
- Spell casting I, bards skills, leaderhip II-IV, some have ranged attack with mark 1-2 at start

Ranger
- Decent ATT, decent MP
- Control animal, archery, critical / aimed shot, spear of slaying, natures blessing, trap and concealment are common
- Mark 3-5, vision 2-3, heroism and some ranged attack at start

Assasin [Rogue]
- Decent ATT, low DAM (compensated by mighty meek feat), high MP
- Double strike, first strike, blurred, energy drain, throw blades, venomous spit, gas breath and poison strike are common
- Some concealment or invisibility, mighty meek, vision I and wall climbing at start

Cleric [Priest]
- Decent DEF, high RES
- Holy dagger, hurl lightning, black bolts, divine breath, lightning abilities, protections, holy strike are common
- Spell casting I, true seeing, turn undead, healing 1-2, mark 2-3 at start

Sorcerer [Shaman]
- Low ATT, low DAM, high RES, low HP
- Magic bolts, fire bolts, frost bolts, flame throwing, frost blowing, bombard, lightning abilities and some protections are common
- Spell casting III, mark 4-5, and some ranged attack at start, willpower

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ Good Wizards: ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
outdated

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ Neutral Wizards: ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
outdated

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ Evil Wizards: ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
outdated

~~~~~~~~~~~~Wizard Skills:~~~~~~~~~~~~

Explorer: 4 Skill Picks
Conqueror: 4 Skill Picks
Summoner: 3 Skill Picks
Peace Keeper: 3 Skill Picks
Merchant: 3 Skill Picks
Survivalist: 3 Skill Picks
Constructor: 3 Skill Picks
Scholar: 3 Skill Picks
Expander: 3 Skill Picks
Enchanter: 2 Skill Picks
War Mage: 2 Skill Picks
Channeler: 2 Skill Picks
Casting Specialist: 1 Skill Pick

Anarchist: 4 Extra Skill Picks
Pacifist: 4 Extra Skill Picks
Decadence: 5 Extra Skill Picks
Bureaucrat: 6 Extra Skill Picks
Technophobe: 6 Extra Skill Picks

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

Special thanks to Kirky Picardo and BNW mod for the additional graphics!

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

If you got cool ideas for improving the mod further, or something, feel welcome to post here.

[This message has been edited by Griffith (edited 01-19-2018 @ 06:05 AM).]

Author

Replies:

RogerRabid
Member
(id: Roger the Rampant)

posted 09-12-08 10:59 PM EDT (US) 1 / 241

Really excited about this new mod. Is this the one that you have done 11 races for already?

^{"Shooting down a plane of civilians isn't careless, it's politcal opportunism." - Stormraider}

Griffith
Member

posted 09-13-08 10:30 AM EDT (US) 2 / 241

Yea well, I've made crude versions of most of the races, but theres still much work to do on those, and many changes are possible. At the moment I'm bit stuck on the Hallowed Dead-race, wondering how to make them different enough from the other undead..

[This message has been edited by Griffith (edited 09-14-2008 @ 00:35 AM).]

Kilian Houston
Member

posted 09-14-08 05:14 AM EDT (US) 3 / 241

hallowed dead suggestion: Unlike the normal undead who either enjoy their existence or unlive as mindless puppets, the hallowed dead have some noble task to perform and strive for redemption upon completing it: to emulate this they gain martyr at gold. As this is a big disadvantage (from a gameplay perspective) the entire race could gain some compensative advantages such as realy cheap units. A side effect would be the reevaluation of the pacifist penalty.

There is "wrong" and there is "more wrong"; unfortunatelly there is no such thing as "right" even less "more right".

Travelling faster than a speeding bullet is not of much help if you and it are headed straight towards each other.

Griffith
Member

posted 09-14-08 10:49 AM EDT (US) 4 / 241

Interesting idea.. It makes sense that a good undead creature would want to be freed from its unholy existence.. Maybe would be too much if all their units got martyr at gold, but could give it to some of them.

I was planning on giving martyr at beginning for some units like Apparition of Consortium race (also got invisibility) and Phantom Warrior (a Sorcery sphere summon).

Any suggestions for the automaton race?

[This message has been edited by Griffith (edited 09-14-2008 @ 11:34 AM).]

KingChaos
Member

posted 09-16-08 06:54 PM EDT (US) 5 / 241

Great mod! i have a few suggestions and ideas:

Halflings were weak but cheap on mp1.7, and they generated gold faster, but their drawback was their upkeep was same as all other races. in dwiggs 5, goblins have 3 upkeep for some units! maybe apply that to your mod?

Perhaps a unit that spawns mushrooms when it kills?

Mabye a wizard tower that inflicts damage to units the same as the race, such as undead inflicting death magic?

Kilian Houston
Member

posted 09-17-08 05:23 AM EDT (US) 6 / 241

Automaton suggestion(s): some minor machinations could combine and form a bigger, better compound. Unfortunatelly i doubt this is feasible within the editor's limitations.
I disagree with machines having holy immunity (remember Butler's Djihad ?); I admit that a machine feeling vertigo is strange, but if you can give immuty to freezing/stunning without cold/lightning immunity, why can't you give vertigo immunity without holy immunity?
I suppose those machines have some dedicated electronics inside, so lightning weakness should be appropriate.
To reflect the winding down of cogwheels, ammunations and similar stuff, abilities with limited uses could be comon among the automatons; however, in the aow2sm-universe most limited abilities are rather organic in nature.
While machines can be repaired, they have no intrisic healing. To emulate this they could all be permanently cursed (their death immunity cancels of the death weakness part.).
I'll write again, if i have another idea for a typical machine trait.

jamesii
Member

posted 09-17-08 05:26 AM EDT (US) 7 / 241

I like the Beastmen idea!

Is it possible to make a new ability that allows a unit to be auto-healed by a certain quantity of hp (depending on the level of the ability) every COMBAT TURN? I think that sounds appropriate with the werewolves theme of the Beastmen

The were-beasts can have a racial trait named Lycanthropy, lvl 1 Lycanthopy bestows lvl 1 self-healing(1 hp per combat turn) and fury, lvl 2 Lycanthropy bestows lvl 2 self-healing (2 hp per combat turn) and physical protection, lvl 3 lycanthropy bestows lvl 3 self-healing(3hp per combat turn) and physical immunity.

And add a new lvl 2 enchantment to the Earth sphere: Silver Weapon, which negates the physical protection/immunity bestowed by Lycanthropy traits and gives +3 Dam to any target with that trait.

Maybe the Ethereal Form ability should also give the unit "wall-passing" and even "blurred" ability, which will make a good assassin unit.

Merkraad
Member

posted 09-17-08 06:28 AM EDT (US) 8 / 241

Hi there,

I think this new Mod can be great fun, Griffith!

I decided to post my suggestions here even though I sent to you by e-mail as well. I'm here for constructive suggestions, so I could suggest you remove that veiled reference to me in the OP - I don't have issues with the ideas presented (so far and after talking to you in private)

Avian
I think the Avian race could replace Nomads so they have the Caravan city ability, using the flying city graphics from Rosens Glorantha Mod. The 'caravan' would be an actual MIGHTY unit, that can go into enemy territory, attack in combat and survive well, and then be rebuilt as a city - so you have an advanced post into enemy territory :-)

So this race would have a quasi magical floating ability that makes them fly, and they can somehow impart this on their cities. Think a bit like DC Comics Hawkman with his alien metal that allows him to fly and give him strength.

They could gain Magic Immunity at Silver or Gold, so they are immune to Double Gravity. Since you want this Mod to play differently for each race, I think it would be cool if players HAVE to adapt their armies against this flying race. Casting Double Gravity and destroying them (they are fragile) does not sound much fun bur rather easy. This race will be strong with flying Units that have ranged attacks, of course.

I also think this race would work well being neutral. Since they are fragile and fly, this could have turned them into a suspicious race, that has few contact with the rest of the realms; and thus they are not good nor evil.

While Avian as a name is not bad, I keep thinking about Avariel, the winged elf race from Forgotten Realms.

Last but not least, I can let you use the Wings I made for my Age of Legends Mod, so you can make any Unit 'fly' and be part of this Avian race if you want to.

Automatons
The Automaton race could be like Planescape constructs, the Modrons - there are some baldurs gate graphics for that. Maybe a Golem race, that rebelled against its masters (not summoned since Golems are more like immune to magic) Maybe a combo of Modrons AND golem/golem-like

Or maybe dwarven machines that somehow got a mind of its own... so more medieval than futuristic - steam-punk would be the correct term. Pistons and wheels moved by steam power

I also just remembered about the Warforged race from Eberron, maybe there is a game with graphics for this???

I can tell from my personal experience that some people do not like the sci-fi theme of a machine race. Its a very risky cross-genre issue.

Quoted from Kilian Houston:
Automaton suggestion(s): some minor machinations could combine and form a bigger, better compound. Unfortunatelly i doubt this is feasible within the editor's limitations.

Totally impossible indeed

I totally agree with you about Machines not having Holy Immunity. IF this is the case of the Automaton race, it should be extended to ALL machines... in Dwiggs, all machines have holy/death immunity.

Personally I think machines can be vertigoed/cursed, its just in a different way; be it a mechanical malfunction or simple supernatural way, my preferred explanation. To me, when an Archon Titan smacks you - or an Ain�r demigod, in the case of this Mod - its not a simple case of physical Vertigo... its a divine essence that found you wanting and not righteous enough

Quoted from Kilian Houston:
While machines can be repaired, they have no intrisic healing. To emulate this they could all be permanently cursed (their death immunity cancels of the death weakness part.).

Regular machines of the game would need that as well, so its consistent. As far as I know, regular machines regain HP without Repair Machine, but I could be wrong.

Hallowed Dead
Kilian Houston's suggestion rocks! Give them Martyr at Gold. I think this could work well, even on all Units. The weaker Units would have a simpler mission; while a high level Unit could have been an evil King in his former life, so logically he must do a huge quest and many good acts before he can rest in peace.

Beastmen

Quoted from jamesii:
Is it possible to make a new ability that allows a unit to be auto-healed by a certain quantity of hp (depending on the level of the ability) every COMBAT TURN? I think that sounds appropriate with the werewolves theme of the Beastmen

Completely Impossible. Lycanthropy bestowing self-healing included. But Griffith can give them Life Stealing :P He already has the Building that gives Life Stealing set up for that race. And Physical Immunity is a NICE idea for Werewolves and maybe other creatures of this race - so you need a mgic weapon/silver weapon to dispatch them.

Silver Wapon enchantment idea is cool, but it would need to replace something, and I think Enchant Weapon is good enough, as its more generic in nature.

Ethereal Form ability can't give Pass Wall and Blurred, that is beyond the scope of the editor.

Now, my take: I would keep the Centaurs, satyrs, fauns and similars in the Enchanted Forestrace, for sure. They are usually associated with good. The werewolf, wererat, manticore, chimera, minotaur etc are definately keen for being in an evil race. I would add Jomungandr, the giant serpent from nordic mythology, as a mighty high level with Swallow Whole

New abilities:

Aimed Shot and Critical Shot sound very nice! Very original ideas.

Normal [Shadow Walker]: very good idea too! This means that Shadow World will be playable!

I would like to talk about these abilities that give immunity to certain status, though. The ones that use the Mask possibility of the Editor.

Honestly, I don't think the implementation of this in a Mod is good or elegant enough. There are a lot of issues with Masking.

For example, Clarity gives Willpower & Immunity to Drain Will. A Unit can STILL attempt to use Drain Will. Only it will fail. This destroys the AI, and can confuse a human player. In my modding experiences, I had Units (Incarnates) endlessly using Drain Will to no avail - even though they could actually kill my Units with simple Melee strikes!

I also have experience with crashes with Masking. I see you have abilities preventing Stunning (Ironskin [Stoneskin]). I have tested that and Vertigo, Cursed, etc being Masked. And with ONLY that altered in a Mod - that is, making a new Mod from 1.4 and making only that single change! They were random, weird crashes and I was not always 100% able to reproduce them, but I thought I'd let you know anyway.

There is also a graphical glitch with masking. I see you have: "Ethereal Form [Liquid Form]Gives the Unit Physical Protection,Water Walking and immunity to Trap & Web." I tested many abilities, including Fire Halo giving Immunity to Web. The Web attempt could still be made as I stated before, and with every attempt a Unit did, the graphic used when the spell Fire Halo is cast was repeated. This could be cool in a way though, or rather annoying

Artist, Sorcerer, Monk and AoW Series fan
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Proud owner of an AoW SM poster signed by Devs!
Please try the fantastic BNW Mod made by my friend Kirky Picardo! The best AoW:SM Mod!

[This message has been edited by Merkraad (edited 09-17-2008 @ 01:28 PM).]

Griffith
Member

posted 09-17-08 05:11 PM EDT (US) 9 / 241

@King Chaos

There isn't going to be Halfling -race in this new mod.. But maybe there will be some halflings with the Alliance -race. I'll take your suggestion into consideration though..

You can only make one devour-like ability / mod, and that's allready been taken by Multiply ability (spawns Gremlins), so can't make a unit that spawns mushrooms, sorry

Tower Guard change could be nice, I think we talked about this in a game a bit.. It's not possible to give it different damage type depending or race though.. But could add more damage types to it. It's also possible to add more shots to it but I'm not sure whether it shoots same unit more times or does it change target each time.. some1 oughta test it!

@Kilian

Hmm.. alltough it isn't possible to allow separate units to combine into single greater unit, it is possible to create unit with several minor "units" or unit graphics in one and give it ability to morph into a big unit.. This might be actually pretty cool unit idea, especially now when I'm considering changing the Automaton race to a Transformer race, alltough I'm not quite sure of it yet.. I've been warned of mixing scifi and fantasy too much..

Removing holy immunity might be good idea, they probably have too much protections as it is.. Maybe lightning weakness would be good for some units.

Gotta see about limiting the ammunitions etc.. Alltough disallowing their intrinsic healing seems like a good idea, not sure if you can permanently give unit "curse"-ability, I think it'll be removed after 1 turn.. Actually I'm not sure if machine type units even heal by themselves..

@jamesii

Nice ideas, too bad they're pretty much impossible to make

. Could give those Lycanthropy level things as medal rewards for some beastmen units though..

@Merkraad

You're on a writing spree arent you? Anyways nice of you to post here in such a manner..

As I said in the e-mail, the Avian Flying City -idea is nice, I think I'm gonna make it so.. Maybe need to make their pioneers bit more expensive and/or Create Caravan option bit more expensive too, but I dont think that causes problems..

Magic immunity would be pretty heavy for them, but maybe as a gold medal bonus it would be appropriate..

I appreciate you allowing me use the wings from your mod, I'm sure they'll be handy.

Not sure what I'll do with the machine race at the moment, Im sure I'll think of something

I know some Modron graphics are appropriate, but there isn't too many of them to my knowledge.. Dunno if golems and modrons work together too well as a race though..

I think I'll still keep centaurs, fauns and satyrs on Beastmen.. They are beastmen after all. Mythologically, i dont think they are unambiguously related to goodness.. Jomungandr could be nice unit, wouldnt it belong to Vikings though? They will have Nidhogg at least

I like Aimed and Critical Shot too. I think they work fine for archer units as an optional shooting ability. I'll probably give them limited shots of those though (3 uses). Not sure if they need the holy or death damage though, I just thought they somehow would resemble the effect..

The abilities listed here which uses masking have all been pretty much tested in CoMA, and they have worked without any major problems (I think). I've tested several other maskings, but those didnt work as well.. At least the Clarity ability is a vital part of the unit designs I make for this mod, so i wont be removing that

Probably these things wont work well with AI, but i recommend people play against other humans anyway

I'll give you a reply for your e-mail soon, dunno if i have time today

Cheers

P.S. Oh, and if any1 has any further unit / other suggestions for Asg�rd, Alliance or Automatons, that'd be great.

[This message has been edited by Griffith (edited 12-13-2010 @ 06:20 AM).]

Munataros
Member

posted 09-18-08 11:31 AM EDT (US) 10 / 241

Quoted from KC:
in dwiggs 5, goblins have 3 upkeep for some units! maybe apply that to your mod?

This would be good idea imo too, on some race. (got no idea what the new races are supposed to represent)

- to Beastman: Half research race with growpenalty(they tend to kill themselfes in nature), maybe make some units good or neutral for them so they can rebel, if not considering where to put the units in stacks. (but the units may got better stats since they lose some, if no bardskill x2 in stack.

- to Vikings: Jarls as cavalrys. Fenris, Jormund Elver or Kraken (in water). Raven as scout is must. Floating ship buildable in shipyard? Fast ship they�ll need! They went to NA b4 Columbus

- to Alliance: Leadership, bardskill units. Special machines, with repairing units. Few special strikes, tho magic strikes was common in CoMA alrdy.

Good to consider the importance of magical strikes, when lot units got physical prot or even a immune. And other immunities more too I suppose.

AoW:SM and WoW gamer

Maker of MP Mod 1.8

[This message has been edited by Munataros (edited 09-18-2008 @ 12:06 PM).]

jamesii
Member

posted 09-18-08 04:06 PM EDT (US) 11 / 241

I've always been highly impressed by the convenient and convincing shape-shifting feature in Dominions 3 (e.g. the dragon pretenders and Jotun mages), and I believe the AOW2 game engine is also supportive of a specifical shapechange action in combat, as I remember in Kirky's BNW 3.0 the druid can morph into a raven and vampire lord a giant bat, and remain in those shapes after combat, but the two shapeshifting actions will consume all the movepoints and result in paralysis for one turn. Maybe the paralysis is caused by the flying ability of the secondary shapes and might not be a problem if they are replaced by a walking unit. This can be a good inspiration for the Beastmen units. For example the werewolf is a lvl 3 evil humanoid unit that has "possessed", "wall-climbing", "fury", "charge", "regeneration", "physical protection", "holy weakness", "control animal" and "magic strike"; but when he takes a normal wolf shape, he loses all the demoniac prowess, but gains tactical advantages like "concealment", "forestry", "mountaineering", "cave-crawling" and "nightvison", and in this more natural form he is a neutral-aligned "animal" that can be tamed by other units. I think this is in pratice feasible and sounds perfectly coherent with the "uncontrollable rage" theme about werewolves

Other werebeasts can have their own animal shapes too.

P.S. I know I am clearly obsessed with the Lycanthropy theme...how about a vampire-esque undead race that eternally battles against the Lycans? Two evil races at feud is much cooler that the good versus evil cliche

Griffith
Member

posted 09-18-08 05:19 PM EDT (US) 12 / 241

I'm planning to use the morph ability extensively in this mod, especially as a means to gain better form as gold medal upgrade. Also some units will be able to switch form back and forth (like druid, vampire and werewolf), alltough I was thinking of allowing the werewolf morph to human form (specifically a sort of shaman) instead of wolf form.. I'm more used to that theme for some reason.. And the werewolf form allready has animal ability, and I see no reason why it couldn't have night vision also.. But if other folks thinks it's better idea to make werewolf able to morph to wolf form instead of human form i suppose it can be changed.

Btw, it's not possible to make some evil races dislike each other by default (that i know of), alltough it could be cool.

The idea Munataros Suggested that Beastmen have units of different alignments sounds interesting one, and Merk allrdy pointed out that some of their units arent usually associated with evil.. Satyrs and fauns could have bard skills to keep them together even with different alignments.. Probably could give Alliance race few units with different alignments too.. I'm thinking of making Alliance a good race now, but humans in it could still be neutral for example.

Hmm.. Jarls, Fenris, Jormund Elver, Kraken, Raven scout, Floating ship for Vikings? All these could be pretty much for a race that allready has several strenghts.. I think you'd like to have them thematically similar to those of Age of Mythology, personally i was thinking them more like Orlanthi in RuneQuest universe. (At least they will have powerfull Runelords as high level units) Perhaps some of those suggestions are possible, Jarls sound good, and they I've allrdy made Fenris Wolf for them.. Water units are rarely used, but i see no problem with them.. Raven scout and Floating ship.. hmm, sounds pretty heavy, gotta think about it.

Merkraad
Member

posted 09-18-08 07:09 PM EDT (US) 13 / 241

Hi Griffith,

Unfortunately Units of different Alignments in the same Race won't work as intended. They will always get along with each other, regardless of their Alignment

Try making a Pure Evil and other Pure Good Unit of the same race and put them in the same stack. They should get along just fine with High Morale. I tested this last year but I'm pretty sure abiut it, because let's face it, its too much of a shocker to forget about it :P

I also have a crazy suggestion...

To be honest I'm not really excited about the Gremlins race, especially with them replacing Shadow Demons.

I think a Shadow race would be cool. Dunno how balanced it would be with possible Physical Protection/Immunity on most Units. Some powerful Units could also have Swallow Whole :P as they suck a poor creature into nothingness...

There are some Baldurs gate graphics suitable for such a race.

Artist, Sorcerer, Monk and AoW Series fan
Proud citizen of BRASIL \o/ |o/ \o| \o/ |o| /o/ \o/
Blog with some art

[This message has been edited by Merkraad (edited 09-18-2008 @ 07:17 PM).]

Griffith
Member

posted 09-18-08 10:18 PM EDT (US) 14 / 241

Oh, alignment wont affect morale of units of the same race.. Well, it should still affect morale of troops from other evil races in the case of Beastmen for example.. So I suppose it's ok.

Hmm.. Shadows instead of Gremlins..

I think I'll still stick with Gremlins

Have you tested any Gremlin units in CoMA mod? Theyre allmost a race of their own there, alltough their units are buildable by several evil races.. Also they have been tested pretty well so there isn't any big surprises on that regard. Maybe if I illuminate their racial structure a bit you could see why i think them to be fairly interesting:

Gremlin Family Tree:

......Archer/Pawn...---...Scout
...../................\..............|
..../..................\.........Dashing
Shaman......Axeman........|
....|.................|.............|
Slayer..........Giant...........|
....|.................|...........Bulky
....|.................|.............|
Master..........Hulk........Fatboy
......................|
.................Incarnate

Big Archer --- Big Swordsman

First the Gremlin archer unit is able to morph to Gremlin Pawn unit, which in turn is able to morph Gremlin Scout (if you want to, AI dont use this morph by default). If Archer or Pawn gains gold medal they automatically become Shamans or Axemans (through Metamorphosis trait). If Scout gains gold medal it can morph to Dashing Gremlin following different (flying Gremlin) line of gremlin family. Shamans grow up to be greater caster-type Gremlins and Axemans grow up to be greater melee-type Gremlins. You can see how the rest of the "evolution" goes on the upper "chart". Big Gremlins can't become better Gremlins but they can switch form between Archer and Swordsman.

Another defining feat they got is that they can multiply through battle. (replacing old Devour ability) Every Gremlin except Archer, Pawn, Scout and Axeman has this feat. The "larva" produced is actually Gremlin Archer, which is much more powerfull than the previous larva Shadow Demons produced, and it has also the ability to morph to Pawn and further to Scout at beginning. This makes the "Multiply" ability very strong indeed. So even a single gremlin can theoretically become a great army by itself, if its lucky enough, and has enough unlucky souls to feed on. Many of them are good with machines, having sabotage and repair machine abilitys, and taunt is also common.

And also I got cool graphics selected and recolored for them allrdy, so I wouldn't like to be replacing them all at this point

What comes to Shadows, I've planned on giving the Consortium race a Shadow unit buildable from Racial building, which can upgrade to Stalker unit (a Greater Shadow). And i planned on using the nice BG graphics for those

(or was it PST..).

Thx for the suggestion anyways!

Cheers

P.S. Couldnt think of any more difficult way to make that graph

[This message has been edited by Griffith (edited 09-18-2008 @ 11:06 PM).]

Munataros
Member

posted 09-20-08 06:19 AM EDT (US) 15 / 241

Hmm.. Jarls, Fenris, Jormund Elver, Kraken, Raven scout, Floating ship for Vikings? All these could be pretty much for a race that allready has several strenghts.. I think you'd like to have them thematically similar to those of Age of Mythology, personally i was thinking them more like Orlanthi in RuneQuest universe. (At least they will have powerfull Runelords as high level units) Perhaps some of those suggestions are possible, Jarls sound good, and they I've allrdy made Fenris Wolf for them.. Water units are rarely used, but i see no problem with them.. Raven scout and Floating ship.. hmm, sounds pretty heavy, gotta think about it.

AoM is the game which stands on real mythology tho.

Robert E. Howard txts are another choise in addition to MoM barbarian race

Barbarians had great growth and great ships. Cimmeria was located in Denmark and east Scotland.

Ethereal Form [Liquid Form]
Gives the Unit Physical Protection,Water Walking and immunity to Trap & Web.

Ironskin [Stoneskin]
Gives the Unit +2DAM, +2 DEF. -1RES and immunity to Stunning.

Natures Blessing [Free Movement]
Nature lends its aid for the unit. Gives free movement, +2RES and immunity to entangle.

Rune of Mastery [Wind Walking]
Allows a Unit to Float across all Terrain, gives +2ATT and immunity to freezing.

If those spells get too high casting cost/upkeep they might get much harder to dispel.. At least dispel do not work on static shield or resurgence, even if units got low resistance, so I think it counts the casting cost of buff. Could be tested tho. Dispel is normally 15 att.

AoW:SM and WoW gamer

Maker of MP Mod 1.8

[This message has been edited by Munataros (edited 09-20-2008 @ 06:37 AM).]

jamesii
Member

posted 09-20-08 01:15 PM EDT (US) 16 / 241

Iron skin granting shock immunity sounds weird to me...Shouldn't the metal shuck make the unit a better conductor of electricity? I think this enchantment would be better defined if it gives a higher boost in defence than the existing stone skin (perhaps +5) but causes lightning weakness or severely reduced movepoints (if the later is possible) for balance's sake.

Munataros
Member

posted 09-22-08 09:59 AM EDT (US) 17 / 241

I think this enchantment would be better defined if it gives a higher boost in defence than the existing stone skin (perhaps +5) but causes lightning weakness or severely reduced movepoints (if the later is possible) for balance's sake.

Don�t think making those would be possible, good try tho

+5 defence would be "bit" too much as to speak.

We had conversation, prolly best to put stoneskin back to basics although +2def and to +1 res and low cost. Earth is Earth, well Nature at least. If the buffs are 3rd and 4th lvl mostly, it�s very hard get them in spell list early enough.

AoW:SM and WoW gamer

Maker of MP Mod 1.8

[This message has been edited by Munataros (edited 09-22-2008 @ 10:01 AM).]

Griffith
Member

posted 10-05-08 09:50 AM EDT (US) 18 / 241

Yea, i think it's better to turn some spells back to normal (like liquid form and stone skin)

Check out the new hero classes! You got any extra suggestions for their base stats or general abilities please suggest.

P.S. Swolte can you change the topic name plz? To "LoW mod suggestions thread".

Peace

bam65
Member

posted 10-05-08 10:21 AM EDT (US) 19 / 241

I think the Hunter class should have a high attack and a lower defense since anything that hunts would be more geared towards offense/attacking to make the kill.

jamesii
Member

posted 10-05-08 12:47 PM EDT (US) 20 / 241

I suggest giving low level viking units "sailing" ability and superior, faster warship in shipyard, to reflect their seafaring trait in medieval sources

Griffith
Member

posted 10-05-08 12:52 PM EDT (US) 21 / 241

@bam
Okie dokie

Alltough i first thought that hunters main attack would be the ranged attack, I suppose good melee attack fits it good also..

@jamesii
Good idea, I think I'll add something of the like..

Cheers

TruePurple
Member

posted 10-05-08 06:46 PM EDT (US) 22 / 241

Very interesting stuff there, will probably be a challenge to balance.

Normal for stone skin is 3 def, not 2 def 1 res. It makes it more synergetic with tremor spell as well as keeping it separate from bless.

@Prismatic Breath & Aimed shot:
. . . Try to avoid multitype shots please. Reduces the value of protections. Especially prismatic breath which seems to be designed to make protections worthless. Plus aimed shot will be useful for undead which doesn't seem to make sense.(much better to leave it to specialized units like priests and stuff) And it means losing cold breath, not good. Yes there is frost blowing, but there is so many other things one can do with cold breath.

. . . I find a good undead idea very interesting, but isn't there issues with something being of "undead" type and alignment? Perhaps being of "good" race overrides that? I suppose you could just not make them undead type, and use immunities and stuff. But that changes things.

Enchanted forest:
. . . I suggest the trees have various terrain concealments (not ug concealment, desert concealment, wasteland conceament and maybe not snow concealment) as they can pretend to be ordinary trees from a distance.

TruePurple
Member

posted 10-06-08 00:24 AM EDT (US) 23 / 241

Concerning mounted.

I would like to see a stronger correlation between a unit being faster and mounted and thus vulnerable to polearm and control animal(unless enchanted mount) Which is why its a bit of a shame for paladins to be replaced since they have a strong horse theme to them.

Merkraad
Member

posted 10-06-08 07:00 AM EDT (US) 24 / 241

New classes sound interesting... although as we say here 'why mess with a team that is winning'

I think that the Warlock and Mage overlap. I don't really see a reason to have them as 2 separate classes... it would be easier to have a generic name like Caster and the difference would be simply in starting stats.

I actually feel the same way about the other classes/names... Assassin is very specific, while Rogue means a hero could be a Bard OR an assassin OR a thief. Knight is VERY specific... its a warrior with a code of chivalry, generally Mounted... so a crude Warrior with a two handed sword wouldn't fit there, simply put.

I think the original set up of the game is almost perfect:

Warrior - D&D Fighter
Rogue - D&D Rogue
Paladin - D&D Paladin
Priest - D&D Cleric
Ranger - D&D Ranger
Shaman - this is the only one IMO that NEEDS change. Shamans are pretty much a type of Priest/Cleric... it never really convinced me, I don't know why it was made like this in the original game.

So my 2 cp is to keep classes generic in name/theme and develop this in each individual Hero starting stats and description

A mounted Warrior can be a Knight, a Mage with good melee stats can be a 'multiclass' fighter/mage, a priest can be a Voodoo shaman, and so on...

Artist, Sorcerer, Monk and AoW Series fan
Proud citizen of BRASIL \o/ |o/ \o| \o/ |o| /o/ \o/
Blog with some art

bam65
Member

posted 10-06-08 10:33 AM EDT (US) 25 / 241

Generic can be boring though, and I disagree about knights. Throughout history and literature there have been good knights and bad knights.

Merkraad
Member

posted 10-06-08 11:22 AM EDT (US) 26 / 241

Well its just a class name, its not such a big deal IMO... the problem with specific names is it limiting the possibilities that could be done with a generic, 'boring' name.

For example, a class could be named Bladesinger, and i think it would be cool as hell to have such a class, but it does not really offer much in terms of Hero customization... I think THAT is boring

Dunno what you disagree about Knights, I said they follow a code of cavalry, not that they are necessarily good. Even an evil Knight will follow SOME sort of code...

Artist, Sorcerer, Monk and AoW Series fan
Proud citizen of BRASIL \o/ |o/ \o| \o/ |o| /o/ \o/
Blog with some art

[This message has been edited by Merkraad (edited 10-06-2008 @ 11:24 AM).]

bam65
Member

posted 10-06-08 02:49 PM EDT (US) 27 / 241

You said knights follow a code of chivalry. Chivalry usually denotes character traits like honor, courtesy, generosity, etc.

ChowGuy
HG Cherub

posted 10-06-08 07:21 PM EDT (US) 28 / 241

Quoted from Griffith:
P.S. Swolte can you change the topic name plz? To "LoW mod suggestions thread".

Don't know if Swolte caught that, so

*thread title changed by ChowGuy*

---

Quoted from Bam65:
You said knights follow a code of chivalry. Chivalry usually denotes character traits like honor, courtesy, generosity, etc.

That's the romantic version, but as originally concieved the code stressed Honor, Nobility, and prowess at arms. "Generosity" and "Compassion" as such were limited to the requirement to extend mercy to a fallen peer as a matter of honor, it did not extend to mere commoners. Orders of Knights pledged themselves to serve a given Lord or Cause, and were by ethics over then morality. In D&D terms they would need to be Lawful, but unlike a Paladin not necessarily Lawful Good.

However, I concur that while in theory the term is the equivalent to say "Samurai" as usually conceived it implies a particular style of combat - that of the heavily armed and armored wmounted warrior - that may need "fit" well with some of the racial concepts, thus limiting it's viability. A slightly less context-laden term, say "Champion" might be better, particularly if your mos were to include walking versus mounted Heroes, which is something I would like to see at least for the Caster classes, and possibly for the Assassin class (hard to be stealthy on a horse). With reduced MP but stronger class-specific starting abilities. Just an opinion however.

[This message has been edited by ChowGuy (edited 10-06-2008 @ 07:22 PM).]

bam65
Member

posted 10-06-08 10:07 PM EDT (US) 29 / 241

Going by the definition of honor I wouldn't say that an evil knight has honor, even within the context of what they may 'claim' as honor. A good knight wouldn't kill innocent civilians just for the joy of it but an evil knight may do just that, whether by his own will or by command. That's what makes them evil.

Griffith
Member

posted 10-06-08 11:01 PM EDT (US) 30 / 241

@Truepurple
I suppose Aimed and Critical shot dont need the holy / death damage associated to them, was bit unsure of it myself..

And good units can have undead property, and they still stay good btw..

@Merkraad
The Mage and Warlock classes might overlap each other a bit.. I was planning that one major difference between would be that Warlocks would have great hp's and have death and fire abilities.. But now i changed them to Bard's, I think that's appropriate class for allmost every race, and have some usefull abilities (thx for the idea, again

)

I suppose I'll be changing Knight's to Champions as well, as Chowguy suggested..

I dont think Rogue can represent Bard's very well, it's better to make own class for them

. And the other class you suggested Rogue represents, Thief, isn't very usefull given the abilities in the game (you cant steal anything).. So only really usefull variation of rogue would be just the Assasin-type.. So I'll use that

.. They would have powerfull melee attack (even more so than Champion fe.), especially against other heroes and other high level units because of their mighty meek feat. Also most would have invisibility and some poison abilities.

[This message has been edited by Griffith (edited 10-06-2008 @ 11:07 PM).]

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