[This reply was significantly edited on 24-Feb-2014 to handle unconnected roads and to use walker names from the game.]

A random walker will start on a tile touching its building and will usually return to its building and finish on a tile touching or almost touching its building (unless the finishing point is on an unconnected road). "Teleporting" entertainers and bazaar traders are ignored, and so are walkers who disappear far from their buildings even though they are connected to the finishing point (including, in some situations, architects, tax collectors, and entertainers), and so are plague sufferers. For information both on walkers who can disappear on some of their walks and on teleportation of musicians and dancers, see StephAmon's Walkers and teleporters from pavilions. For some information on teleportation of bazaar traders, see my Teleporting Walkers. For information on plague sufferers, see StephAmon's Habits of Plague Carriers.

In terms of starting and finishing points, mastaba/pyramid construction platforms are treated as roads--in this post, "road" means "road or mastaba/pyramid construction platform". A roadblock is sometimes treated as a road. The 2-tile passage through the middle of a gatehouse is treated as 2 roadblocks.

A connected road network includes all connected roads (including those under roadblocks, the festival square, and entertainment venues), 2-tile passages through gatehouses, bridges, ferry landings, and 1-tile-wide paths across rivers crossed by staffed ferries (going only NE, SE, SW, or NW from one ferry docking spot to the other). If two connected road networks have the same number of tiles then the one with a road or roadblock that is the most northeast is considered the larger, and if they both have road or roadblock tiles that are equally far northeast then the one with the northeasternmost road or roadblock tile that is the most northwest is considered the larger.

Random walkers fall into four categories based on their starting point: 1) most random walkers, 2) constables, magistrates, and tax collectors, 3) walkers from temple complexes, and 4) citizens from storage yards. However, the finishing point of any random walker who returns to its building is essentially the same (although for some buildings only a part of the building is used), so the finishing algorithm is discussed first.

Results will be described and presented in diagrams. In all diagrams, the road tile with the lowest number is used, and north is diagonally up and to the left.


Finish Point

For temple complexes and storage yards, only a part of the building is used to determine the finishing point. See the appropriate section below.

A random walker will usually finish its walk by returning to its building on a road or roadblock tile. If there is a road or roadblock tile adjacent to the building (even to just a corner), then the finishing tile is the one on the largest connected road network that is furthest northeast, and if that selects multiple tiles then the finishing tile is the one of them that is furthest northwest. If no roads or roadblocks are adjacent to the building but there is a road or roadblock tile separated by 1 tile from the building, then the finishing tile is the one on the largest connected road network that is furthest northeast, and if that selects multiple tiles then the finishing tile is the one of them that is furthest northwest. If there are no road or roadblock tiles either adjacent to or separated by 1 tile from the building then the random walker disappears instead of returning to its building.

The finishing road or roadblock tile (selecting from the largest connected road network touching the building if it exists, otherwise selecting from the largest connected road network) for random walkers from a 3x3 building (north is diagonally up-left):

17	18	19	20	21	22	23
24	1	2	3	4	5	25
26	6	3x3			7	27
28	8				9	29
30	10				11	31
32	12	13	14	15	16	33
34	35	36	37	38	39	40

Common Random Walkers

This behavior applies to all random walkers except for constables, magistrates, tax collectors, priests from temple complexes, citizens from temple complexes, and citizens from storage yards.

A juggler, musician, dancer, or citizen created by a venue is a common random walker, but the "building" that determines its start and finish points is not the entire booth, bandstand, or pavilion. For a juggler or citizen from a booth, his "building" is the 1x1 juggle stage. For a musician or juggler or citizen from a bandstand, its "building" is the 1x1 northernmost half of the music stage. For a dancer or musician or juggler or citizen from a pavilion, its "building" is the 2x2 dance stage.

A common random walker starts in the largest connected road network that has a road tile (or roadblock if the walker is a fire marshal or architect) that is adjacent to a side (not a corner) of the building. The starting tile is the first one encountered when beginning at the tile northeast of the north tile of the building and going clockwise.

The starting road tile (selecting from the largest connected road network) for common random walkers from a 3x3 building (north is diagonally up-left):

.	1	2	3	.
12	3x3			4
11				5
10				6
.	9	8	7	.

The starting road or roadblock tile (selecting from the largest connected road network) for fire marshals and architects (north is diagonally up-left):

.	1	.
4	x	2
.	3	.

Unless the road system is changed during its walk, a common random walker will finish on a tile adjacent to the building but not on the tile directly south of the south tile of the building.


Constables, Magistrates, and Tax Collectors

As might be expected from inflexible government officials, these walkers are the only ones that begin and end their walks the same way. A constable, magistrate, or tax collector starts his walk on the road tile that would finish his walk. Since there must be a road that the citizen can use, the starting tile must be adjacent to the building and not directly south of the south corner of the building.

The starting road or roadblock tile (selecting from the largest connected road network) for tax collectors (north is diagonally up-left):

1	2	3	4
5	T.C.		6
7			8
9	10	11	.

Unless the road system is changed during his walk, a constable, magistrate, or tax collector finishes his walk on the same tile that he started.


Temple Complex Walkers

The behavior of walkers from temple complexes is complex. Priests and citizens behave the same.

A priest or citizen from a temple complex starts in the largest connected road network that has a road tile adjacent to the temple complex (even to just a corner). The starting tile is the road tile adjacent to the building that is furthest northwest, and if that selects multiple tiles then the starting tile is the one of them that is furthest northeast. Since this allows a citizen to start in a road tile touching only a corner, a temple complex can get workers without having a road touch a side!

The starting road tile (selecting from the largest connected road network) for priests or citizens from a temple complex with the built-up short end to the northeast (north is diagonally up-left):

1	16	18	20	22	24	26	28	30
2	Temple Complex NE-SW							31
3								32
4								33
5								34
6								35
7								36
8								37
9								38
10								39
11								40
12								41
13								42
14								43
15	17	19	21	23	25	27	29	44

The starting road tile (selecting from the largest connected road network) for priests or citizens from a temple complex with the built-up short end to the northwest (north is diagonally up-left):

1	10	12	14	16	18	20	22	24	26	28	30	32	34	36
2	Temple Complex NW-SE													37
3														38
4														39
5														40
6														41
7														42
8														43
9	11	13	15	17	19	21	23	25	27	29	31	33	35	44

The 3x3 "building" which decides the finish point for temple complex walkers is the northernmost third of the 3x9 built-up part of the temple complex. A temple complex walker will not return to a tile touching the long sides or the non-built-up short end of the temple complex.

The finishing road or roadblock tile (selecting from the largest connected road network touching the northernmost 3x3 built-up part if it exists, otherwise selecting from the largest connected road network) for priests or citizens from a temple complex with the built-up short end to the northeast (north is diagonally up-left):

	6	7	8	9	10	11	12
.	13	1	2	3	4	5	14	.
.	Temple Complex NE-SW							.
.								.
.								.
.								.
.								.
.								.
.								.
.								.
.								.
.								.
.								.
.								.
.								.
.	.	.	.	.	.	.	.	.

The finishing road or roadblock tile (selecting from the largest connected road network touching the northernmost 3x3 built-up part if it exists, otherwise selecting from the largest connected road network) for priests or citizens from a temple complex with the built-up short end to the northwest (north is diagonally up-left):

	.	.	.	.	.	.	.	.	.	.	.	.	.	.	.
6	7	Temple Complex NW-SE													.
8	1														.
9	2														.
10	3														.
11	4														.
12	5														.
13	14														.
	.	.	.	.	.	.	.	.	.	.	.	.	.	.	.

Storage Yard Citizens

The behavior of citizens from storage yards is also weird.

If there is a road tile adjacent to a side (not a corner) of the north corner (covered area) of the storage yard, a citizen from a storage yard starts where a common random walker would start considering the north tile as a 1x1 "building". Otherwise, the citizen from a warehouse starts where a common random walker would start using the whole storage yard.

The starting road tile (selecting from the largest connected road network touching the side of the north corner if it exists, otherwise selecting from the largest connected road network) for storage yard citizens (north is diagonally up-left):

.	1	3	4	.
2	S.Y.			5
12				6
11				7
.	10	9	8	.

The 1x1 "building" which determines the finish point for storage yard citizens is the north tile of the storage yard. A storage yard citizen will not return to a tile touching the southeast or southwest sides of the storage yard.

The finishing road or roadblock tile (selecting from the largest connected road network touching the north corner if it exists, otherwise selecting from the largest connected road network) for storage yard citizens (north is diagonally up-left):

6	7	8	9	10
11	1	2	3	12	.
13	4	S.Y.			.
14	5				.
15	16				.
	.	.	.	.	.

[This message has been edited by Brugle (edited 02-24-2014 @ 11:07 AM).]

How is this useful?

For most buildings (exceptions being police station, courthouse, tax collector, and maybe some entertainment venues (booth, bandstand, and pavilion)), random walker start and finish tiles can be different. If the start and finish tiles are connected only by a long loop, the walker will follow that loop.

With a long loop, a random walker can travel far from the building. Possible uses are: a water carrier going far into a desert, a walker from a large building going into an area where there isn't space for that building, and a labor-seeker going a long way to find workers for an isolated building.

With a long loop, a walker can provide services to a lot of buildings. This could save goods (if the walker is a senet player, embalmer, teacher, or librarian), workers, space, and money.

Is that "fair" or a "cheat"?

A subjective question. To me, it seems more like a cheat, similar to multiple recruiters or building something without paying for it.

Naturally, I'll use this in appropriate contests, such as the Pharaolympic event Hammanat. But, outside of that sort of competition, I expect to avoid it.

Hello Brugle,
don't think this is a cheat! Your just using the information given by the game (after observing...).
Thanks,

This morning I realized that I had forgotten about roadblocks! A few quick experiments showed that the conclusions weren't affected much. I edited the first reply appropriately, and added another disclaimer.

I now understand temple complex walker return points better (a night's sleep does wonders sometimes), so I'll edit that information too.

[This message has been edited by Brugle (edited 12-09-2000).]

I can't believe you just posted this Brugle! I was working on the same thing ("yeah, right, sure" thinks everyone). I still hadn't thought to check the temple complex, so you had be beat anyway.

I was trying to come up with the largest possible block with only one of each service building. It would be limited to mainly modest apartments since there isn't a way to get the magistrate to walk a super-long distance. I had the design for the service building stack. The limit to the size of the block would either be the maximum distance the entertainers would walk from the schools to the venues, or the distance the bazaar seller can travel before the first house runs out of goods. Either way, I think a U shaped block of about 200 squares of road should be possible.

Anyway, well done. I'll go back to working on my block.

This is really interesting. Thanks, Brugle.

I guess discussions of super-long walks won't be academic anymore. Contests will never be the same...

I think firewardens and architects are not common random walkers , they always /or often/ start on their normal beginning-roadtile , even if roadblocked .

Impressive as ever, Brugle.
Angel Jayhawk
Eyrie, Pharaoh Heaven, Caesar 3 Heaven, Zeus Heaven

Tomek,
Thanks! I had tested just a few buildings with roadblocks, since the original posting did not include roadblock information and I was in a hurry to add it. But I knew that firemen and architects (along with policemen, magistrates, and tax collectors) typically take longer "random" walks, so I should have realized that they might behave differently.

Anyway, reply #1 has been edited appropriately. (There could easily be more mistakes.)

Pure gold, Brugle Thanks a lot!

It seems there's always something new to learn about this game.

I wouldn't call it a cheat, or even a design fault like multiple recruiters. I guess you could call it "playing the program, not the game", like fighting a battle at the edge of the map so you can't be outflanked.

Nero Would, I can't wait to see your block!

Happy building
TEP

Storage yard labor seekers don't behave like common random walkers. I added a section on them to the end of reply #1.

[This message has been edited by Brugle (edited 11-08-2001 @ 08:02 PM).]

I've noticed that the Fire Marshal (and I think the Architect) also act as labor-seekers for their buildings, besides the 'dedicated' labor-seeker. This *may* even appliy to things like Temples, I haven't experimented with that.

In the instances I noted, I'd started building a new area. Some houses were populated, and I placed a Firehouse. It sent out a labor-seeker, who passed a house and the building was staffed. It sent out a Fire Marshal, but then the labor-seeker was far from any occupied housing and the Firehouse's staffing vanished. However, as soon as the already spawned Fire Marshal passed an occupied house, the staffing returned (meanwhile, the 'dedicated' labor-seeker was still nowhere near occupied housing). I'm thinking I saw this same thing with the Architect.

Does anyone know if Nero Would was able to make his super-long housing U?

Hi Jimhotep good to see you back here.

I'm afraid I got distracted and never finished work on that long U block.

You dont mention water carriers.
It would be useful for some missions where slumming is inevitable if you could get the water carriers far into the desert.

Quoted from djb13:

Assuming that that comment is addressed to me, it is wrong.

Quoted from reply#2:

Quoted from djb13:

While I haven't finished the "family history", I am not aware of any mission where the required population cannot be given water using "normal" methods. What missions do you have in mind?

You mention water carriers but not the start/finish points in the main article.

Secondly i was thinking of Rostja. A large workforce is needed. Although slumming is perhaps not a nessesity, it is very difficult to get enough food from Hunting Lodges, to the population required to build the prymids quickly.

Quoted from djb13:

Consider:

Quoted from reply#1:

Assuming that my guess is accurate, reply #1 describes the start/finish points for water carriers (and many other walkers not mentioned by name). Water carriers were mentioned in reply #2, and someone would have noticed if their start/finish points were different in the almost 5 years since that was posted. Besides, water carriers (and some other walkers not mentioned by name) taking "long walks" have been described in some other more recent threads.

Quoted from djb13:

I don't know how your difficulty supplying food relates to "get the water carriers far into the desert". Rostja has a lot of watered land, since there's a small river running the length of the map.

Rostja has plenty of food available. Although it would be difficult to obtain most of the production from the 4 ostrich herds (enough for close to 10000 people), it is fairly easy to obtain around half that much. As an example, my Rostja (in the Downloads, both the finished city and some early "progressive" saves), which has no "slums" and which for a short time held the fastest completion record (on this site, anyway), simply has 8 hunting lodges near one of the western breeding grounds (plus some bridges for hunters to go elsewhere) that produce more than enough game meat for everyone. (I supplied some of the houses with imported meat only when the pyramids were almost complete, because I like more evolved houses and wanted to raise Prosperity slightly.)

If you want to continue this off-topic discussion, then please either post a reply to a relevant thread or start a new thread.

Quoted from Brugle:

From my experiences, the start and finish points are correct. I have even abused the start/finish points in a couple of my cities and they have worked perfectly.

ok, thanks

For completeness, I updated reply #1 with information about booths, bandstands, and pavilions (some of which was first published on this forum by StephAmon), added a few links, and made minor edits.

[This message has been edited by Brugle (edited 01-26-2010 @ 05:56 PM).]

If roads are changed while a walk is in progress, a common random walker (or policeman, magistrate, or tax collector) may finish on a road tile that is separated from its building by 1 tile. It turns out that the finish point algorithm is essentially the same for all random walkers, although for certain buildings (temple complex, storage yard, booth, bandstand, and pavilion) only a part of the building is used. I updated reply #1.

[This message has been edited by Brugle (edited 01-01-2014 @ 02:18 PM).]

Hello sages of Pharaoh,

I am trying to advance my design skills by getting a more sophisticated understanding of walkers and long loops, and I have read this thread four times but I still can't figure out what it is saying at all. The starting points for common walkers make sense and I have observed them, but what are all those numbers around the finishing point diagram? And I have never seen walkers jump from side to side of a building that was looped by a road as is diagrammed here, or am I just totally missing what those numbers mean?

Thanks for your patience is rehashing old terrain.

Squidbrains,

All this post does is identify the road tiles where a random walker starts and finishes its walk, assuming that all roads are connected. In each diagram, find the numbered tiles that have roads (in some cases the roads must not be roadblocked but in others roadblocks are OK) and choose the one with the lowest number.

For example, consider a temple that has a long straight road along its SW side. Looking at the first diagram in Common Random Walkers, the tiles 9, 8, and 7 have roads, so the labor-seeker (citizen) or priest will start on tile 7, which is the tile SW of the S tile of the temple. Looking at the diagram in Finish Point, the tiles 32, 12, 13, 14, 15, 16, and 33 have roads, so the walker will finish on tile 12, which is the tile W of the W tile of the temple.

[This message has been edited by Brugle (edited 01-04-2014 @ 03:54 PM).]

Thanks, that did help me figure it out.

I have a related question, that I dealt with by moving the courthouse, but couldn't understand. The layout was as follows:

RR
RR RR
RR SS HH HH RR [inside of housing block is here]
XX SS HH HH RR
XX CC CC CC RR
XX CC CC CC BB BB
XX CC CC CC BB BB RR RR RR
XX XX XX XX XX
RR
RR

Legend: RR = road, XX = roadblock, CC = courthouse, BB = booth, SS = shrine, HH = house.

This was the northeast corner of a housing block with fancy residences and estates. All fine except that eventually, the magistrate stopped circling the block and would momentarily appear on the bottom left (north, I think) roadblock, and then vanish because there was nowhere he could go. He would do this several times, and in fact, once he started, I think he ever went back to the old route around the block. (Not sure because after I saw him blinking on the roadblock several times and all my houses devolved and I could only solve it by moving the courthouse.)

Is this a bug or did I make a mistake somewhere?