Lewonas has replaced Major

Gil has replaced Dead End

The OP needs a player list.

I spoil you

I don't have my role email.

Sorry

I guess Xzy refused :/

I'll send it soon

Is this still based on the structures that Xzy had proposed? If yes, could you put that in the OP/first post so that referring to the setup would be more helpful?

I think we should start claiming in order of experience, that way when it's the newbies' turn they will know how to go about it. Is this ok?

Yay started up again

1. Ash
2. Herr Elessar
3. Mozzarella Man
4. Gil
5. Xenophone
6. Sarn
7. If_was_a_ville
8. Anstar
9. Lewonas

Does this list sound acceptable? It seems accurate in experience I would say

Day or night?!?!?!?!

OH IT'S DAY.

Lesson 1:

Vote: Herr Elessar

Herr, I got a guilty on you I'M A COP SO CLAIM.

**NEVER EVER DO THIS, NEWBS. NEVER REVEAL THAT YOU'RE A COP WHEN SO MANY PEOPLE ARE LEFT ALIVE. YOU CAN BE PROTECTED BY THE DOCTOR, BUT FOR HOW LONG? KEEP YOUR RESULTS TO YOURSELF, AND LET IT IMPACT YOUR PLAY BUT BE SUBTLE.

You have successfully completed Lesson 1.

Am I claiming or something?

I was like "WTF Ashrzr it was a day start."

Yes you are.

Alternative techniques to bring pressure on someone you have a guilty result on are:

a) Suggest a random vote on them or actually start it. However, this is a bit risky.

b) Keep trying to pick up points from their posts that can be interpreted as scummy, even if only slightly and try to cobble them together to make a convincing argument to get a claim. This is much more likely to succeed and isn't risky at all.

For example, I was a mafia traitor in a game. Basically, there were two mafia groups both of which could convert me to their group. I knew who they were, but they didn't know me. So I decided to side with one group by outing the other group and pretending to be a cop. I noticed that one of the members of the group I planned to out had mentioned the possibility of a traitor, and I would have used it against him and said that he appeared to know too much or was getting random stuff out of the blue and that that was suspicious to get a claim.

Sorry for the complicated example.

Yes, exactly.

All right, well, I'm a VT. What were the setup possibilities again? It's interesting because we can use these to narrow down exactly who could be lying.

I would claim... if I had my role email.

pspaperstacks@gmail.com

All of this is still relevant

These are all the role e-mails each player is eligible to receive:


Mafia Roles


Mafia Goon: You are part of the mafia, along with your faithful partner in crime, NAME. Long have you sought to overtake the town, you believe only now is the time for an appropriate offensive to sow your seeds of chaos and evil.

During the DAY phase, you will attempt to blend in as a town member and subsequently attempt to lynch one of them.
During the NIGHT phase, you can, ONLY during this phase speak privately to your partner NAME. At this time you will discuss your strategy and whom to kill that night.
You must send me xzyiothe@hotmail.com your kill-target before the NIGHT phase is over.
You win when the number of Mafia equals or exceeds the number of remaining Town players, whether you survive to the end or not.


Mafia Roleblocker: You are part of the mafia, along with your faithful partner in crime, NAME. Long have you sought to overtake the town, you believe only now is the time for an appropriate offensive to sow your seeds of chaos and evil.

During the DAY phase, you will attempt to blend in as a town member and subsequently attempt to lynch one of them.
As a Mafia Roleblocker you are able to negate one player's ability for that night, if they have one. You do this by contacting me (xzyiothe@hotmail.com) and telling me who you would like to roleblock for that night.
During the NIGHT phase, you can, ONLY during this phase speak privately to your partner NAME. At this time you will discuss your strategy and whom to kill that night.
You must send me (xzyiothe@hotmail.com) your kill-target before the NIGHT phase is over.
You win when the number of Mafia equals or exceeds the number of remaining Town players, whether you survive to the end or not.



Protown Roles


Vanilla Townie: You are a regular townsperson with no ability other than your ability to vote to lynch a player during the DAY phase.
You have no abilities at Night other than getting a good night's rest.
You cannot under ANY circumstances contact anyone anyone outside the Game thread or speak of details of the game in private.
You win when all members of the Mafia are lynched, whether you survive to the end or not.


Cop: You are the towns' cop - the one most able to investigate and determine who is innocent and guilty.
Each NIGHT you can contact me (xzyiothe@hotmail.com) and tell me which player you would like to investigate, and before DAY begins I will tell you if they are innocent or guilty.
You can trust your results fully as there are no sanities issues in this setup.
You cannot under ANY circumstances contact anyone anyone outside the Game thread or speak of details of the game in private.
You win when all members of the Mafia are lynched, whether you survive to the end or not.


Doctor: You are the town's resident physician who is capable of protecting one player each night.
Each NIGHT you can contact me (xzyiothe@hotmail.com) and tell me which player you would like to protect, which will shield them from falling victim to a night kill.
You cannot protect yourself.
You cannot under ANY circumstances contact anyone anyone outside the Game thread or speak of details of the game in private.
You win when all members of the Mafia are lynched, whether you survive to the end or not.

---

This is the first Newbie game in which I hope to be a fruitful series. This will operate on the F11 mafia setup. There are only four possibilities for this game:


1 Mafia Goon, 1 Mafia Roleblocker, 1 Sane Cop, 1 Doctor, 5 Townies.
1 Mafia Goon, 1 Mafia Roleblocker, 7 Townies.
2 Mafia Goons, 1 Sane Cop, 6 Townies.
(or) 2 Mafia Goons, 1 Doctor, 6 Townies.
*In relevant setups 1&2, if the Mafia Goon is dead the Mafia Roleblocker can kill and roleblock on the same night.

1 Mafia Goon, 1 Mafia Roleblocker, 1 Sane Cop, 1 Doctor, 5 Townies.
1 Mafia Goon, 1 Mafia Roleblocker, 7 Townies.
2 Mafia Goons, 1 Sane Cop, 6 Townies.
(or) 2 Mafia Goons, 1 Doctor, 6 Townies.

So from this we gather theres always 2 scum and 7 town.
We start on day so besides for claims theres nothing to go on for a lynch. The Doctor should find the cop as soon as he can and protect him always since theres no other power role of the town. The Cop and the Doctor should stay hidden as long as possible. So basically even if we claim, everyone is probably going to claim VT.

is this Right?

So there's a mafia goon and mafia roleblocker but no godfather.

And yes, we can expect just about everybody to claim VT. If the cop is asked to claim, though, I think he ought to go for it. He is guaranteed doc protection.

I seriously hope we don't have options 2 or 3. Those two games would be impossible and not fun.

Also, why does option 2 have a mafia roleblocker but the town is only composed of VTs? Makes no sense. Someone thought through this well.

Post 16 Contradicts Post 10

Also, the roleblocker is there to affect claiming.

If no roleblocker meant no town power roles then the scum could know for a fact that they could safely claim as a doc or cop. Conversely, the presence of one shouldn't necessarily force the scum to choose VT as their claim

1) You're the mod, you're not supposed to have an opinion
2) No it doesn't. Post #10 says, don't claim on your own accord if you're a cop, no matter the results. Post #16 says, if you're forced to claim as cop, tell the truth. That way, the doctor has a solid target to protect.

In a game this size, the cop should probably not be afraid to claim no matter what. But for bigger games, you need to be more subtle about it.

You know actually, I'm starting to think the cop SHOULD come out. The only problem is if we don't have a doc.

But -- neither does the scum! Genius! The scum will NOT risk killing the cop, because it's more than likely that there's a doc.

Now, maybe the scum will risk it, but that would be kind of stupid.

What do you guys think?

We don't know if there's a doc and neither does the scum, that's to say.

The reason why the cop comes out -- confirms, not only for himself but for everyone, who is Town and who is scum. It will help us make informed decisions as a whole if everyone is on equal ground in what they know.

Now, I see another issue. If we're facing the option where there seems to be no cop (which would be totally messed up) the scum could swoop in and claim to be a cop themselves. That would kind of screw things up.

This is a Vanilla Game on Day 0. I'm just trying to think creatively to get some juices flowing. Thinking out loud.

@Ash

I don't think the cop should come out because we cannot rely on there being a doctor. If the cop is asked to claim, then they should be truthful but for now, especially on a day start, they should keep quiet.

I think we should let the cop keep investigating at this point. Maybe We'll get lucky.

Vote : No Lynch

IWAV, don't forget while we no lynch yes, the cop may get a chance at getting scum but he only has a 33% chance of hitting scum. And while we are no lynching, the scum are essentially getting a free kill.

I'm not sure about IWAV right now, he may have just been suggesting no lynch due to lack of experience but it's still worrying how swiftly he suggested a no lynch.

so for now, FoS: If was a ville

I'm also suspicious of Ville. No lynch is not good except certain situations. Also, we don't even know if there is a cop (50% chance there isn't), so using that as reasoning doesn't hold a lot of water. Worth pressuring, so Vote:Ville

No lynch ain't an option, but we will have to go out on a limb and lynch randomly.

I read up an almost same mafia at BFME2H, same type, where they had the same system, albeit, with no cop.

They lynched a scummy player, and tada, town won.


FoS: Ville


Scumdar alert. [/lulz at Xeno]

Scumdar

! Lulz, you forgot the^TM

Xenophone certainly isn't the first person to use "Scumdar".

Anyways, the problem with going down the mass claim route is if there is a doctor, then whether he should claim truthfully or not. If he lies he's only going to add to the mass of VTs and create more confusion which would lead to problems, if he tells the truth he's dead anyway. What say you, Ashrzr?

The cop should claim truthfully, yes. He would be unlikely to be targeted seeing that there is a chance that he would be protected.

Didn't like IWAV turning to a no lynch this early in the day.

Most (all?) of the newbie games at mafiascum follow this setup, and you never, ever no-lynch on a day-start day one. Random voting, being nit-picky and build off of it, or even analyzing word choice all give you something to work with. Not usually enough to lynch right away but it builds up to a solid (or sometimes not-so-solid) case for lynching.

The cop should claim truthfully, yes. He would be unlikely to be targeted seeing that there is a chance that he would be protected.

Problem: Given the setup, if a cop claims, the mafia will know whether or not there's a doc.

If a cop claims, it's either option 1 or 3 for the setup. We as town don't know which one it is. The mafia do. If they have an RB, it's option 1 and there is a doc. If they don't have an RB, it's option 3 and there's no doc and the cop is as good as dead.

I'd say cop doesn't claim unless they have a scum result or if they're pressured to. Same with doc. If either of our power roles claim, the mafia will know which setup it is, but the town won't.

The thing is, if they lie there will be 4 liars in the mass of VTs. This could lead to lots of wrong lynches and counterclaims. There is a high risk of the real cop/doctor ending up being lynched. As I said previously, better to go out to a night kill than a lynch.

I suggested No lynch because no one is dead yet.
Theres no investigation yet. And no matter what the claims are everyone is going to claim VT to keep themselves from being targeted since we dont know if we even have a Doctor yet.

What can we gain?

We can pressure until someone accidentally drops a clue that they may be scum. It does work. Go to Mafiascum.net and read the first page or two of a newbie game. They all start with a day start and they NEVER no lynch.

Statistically, if you lynch (even a blind lynch), you have at least a (roughly) 22% chance of killing scum. If you don't lynch, you have 0% chance.

No lynch = bad.

Anyways, the problem with going down the mass claim route is if there is a doctor, then whether he should claim truthfully or not. If he lies he's only going to add to the mass of VTs and create more confusion which would lead to problems, if he tells the truth he's dead anyway. What say you, Ashrzr?

True. No matter what, though, I think we'll be facing an over-extended mass of VTs if we mass claim. So I think the doc would be fine to lie.

The only question is, do we mass claim? I see no other option.

We can pressure until someone accidentally drops a clue that they may be scum. It does work. Go to Mafiascum.net and read the first page or two of a newbie game. They all start with a day start and they NEVER no lynch.

I suppose w emight as well do this. A forced mass claim of sorts as opposed to everyone claiming on their own accord.

But I mean... we're not mass claiming. I dunno.

See, the point of forcing anyone to claim at all is lost because if we choose to encourage lying, then everyone will claim VT. You can't catch them out on the flavor. I suppose our best chance would be an IWAV lynch.

Our best bet is to examine suspicious behavior, which leads me to agree with Herr regarding Ville. So far he's the most suspicious right now.

And thats the problem with a day 0 Lynch. Youre going to kill a townie.

And theres no way for me to prove Im not scum.
All this does is encourage people not to post and to lurk.

20% chance of killing scum vs. 0% chance of killing scum: Which is better?

FoS: Sarn

Alright, let's start with you buckster! You sure are eager to lynch, aren't ya? *Inception squint*

The goal is not to conserve townies. The goal is to lynch scum. If your goal is to conserve townies, you've already lost because every night (unless the doc is impossibly lucky and saves the right townie every night) a townie will die. You can't do anything about that.

@ Ash - I'm just (repeatedly) pointing out the folly of no-lynching. If you have anything against me, feel free to share.

I suggested No lynch because no one is dead yet.

Im not sure if this is being dumb, scummy or if you just forgot that it was a day start ¬.¬

Im still highly suspicious of IWAV but Sarn is being just a little too willing to lynch right now and voted for IWAV almost instantly after I FoS'd IWAV.

Might as well get this over with then.

Vote : Sarn

Because he jumped on me rather quickly.

I voted him because I wanted pressure so that we could get this going. Right now, I'm not "Kill Ville, kill Ville, kill Ville!" If you notice, most of my posts are simply pointing out how no-lynching is bad. Yes, I want a lynch today, simply because no-lynching gives the scum a free kill and doesn't really tell us anything.

Quoted from Ville:

All this does is encourage people not to post and to lurk.

And then we pressure the lurkers. Which kind of makes lurking counterproductive.

I jumped on you quickly because you suggested a no-lynch. You're voting me because I pointed out something suspicious and voted based on my observations. Would you have prefered for me to have waited until a few pages down before I voted you? The purpose of early voting is to pressure people into making a mistake or letting something slip. You were a little suspicious, so I'm pressuring you in order to make you slip if you're scum or prove yourself if you're townie.

Right. I really don't like IWAV's play this game. Im around 70% sure he is scum right now. Vote: IWAV

Reasons:

1. suggested no lynch almost instantly.
2. OMGUS'd Sarn.

And on the topic of lurkers, I'd like to see Lewonas, Anstar, and Mozzy posting a little more.

His OMGUS was in response to my response to Sarn which was a response to Ville I believe. So it wasn't really an OMGUS.

It was a vicarious OMGUS.

And on the topic of lurkers, I'd like to see Lewonas, Anstar, and Mozzy posting a little more.

Oh yeah, just realized this isn't a four-man mafia. I've learned to ignore lurking, it's so common now.