As another "very experienced mafia player" I'll say that Heir's dodging is a red flag to me. Heir knows that there is no real reason to go after anyone, and by suggesting that he isn't going to claim for this reason, he is suggesting that we sit on our hands and twiddle our thumbs, because anyone can now turn around and use the same excuse, since half the town apparently bought it.

Vote: Heir of Elessar

Sure, we aint got nothing on you, Heir, but we don't have anything that suggests that you're any more likely to be town than anyone else. It's day 1, and you can't avoid a random vote this early without at least giving a good reason why someone else is a better target.

FoS: Ashrzr

He seems way too quick to dismiss Heir and go after others. He claims he doesn't want people to claim early, but if Xzy is active, what is the purpose of us putting votes on him?

What if we want a claim? He's as good as anyone else to me.

We don't necessarily need a claim, though. Behavior is just as good as to go off, if not better.

Evidently, neither did you while you wrote that.

I still posted first.

As another "very experienced mafia player" I'll say that Heir's dodging is a red flag to me. Heir knows that there is no real reason to go after anyone, and by suggesting that he isn't going to claim for this reason, he is suggesting that we sit on our hands and twiddle our thumbs, because anyone can now turn around and use the same excuse, since half the town apparently bought it.

Normally, that would send a red flag to me also, but at the same time, like I've said before, he's behaving right now exactly how I have in the past when the victim of a random bandwagon (anyone who's played with me can vouch for me.)

He seems way too quick to dismiss Heir and go after others.

Did I ever say there shouldn't be pressure on Heir? No, I just said I don't think he should claim. If you would've comprehended my post you would see that I don't want to go after others and only focus on one at a time. Rather, I want there to be a bunch of different votes on people, the "Votes Across the Board" approach. Heir can be one of these people, I don't care at all, but I don't think anyone should claim from a random vote. Heir just happened to be the one I'm defending since he was at the receiving end of this.

He claims he doesn't want people to claim early

From a random vote.

but if Xzy is active, what is the purpose of us putting votes on him?

Just because I vote for someone for one reason doesn't mean that's the only reason I want people to be voted for. I can only vote for one person at a time.

Quoted from GoSailing:

Hitler and Mussolini were prominent in WW1, amirite?

U r rite. In WW2.

Instead of random voting, I'd base on the hard core evidence in which Guard of Olympus is dead.

He was either killed randomly so the mafia couldn't be linked with his death, or the mafia had him on their mind when deciding.

Since he was probably randomly killed, I'll jsut stick with Heir.

If we don't lynch him, we get no results.

If we end up lynching him due to no cooperation then we get more information when he dies.

If he agrees to claim, we get information and do not have to suffer losses.

We either go nowhere or somewhere, my vote stands.

I have no idea why people are spreading votes.

Ashzrz, the idea of "pressuring" somebody randomly while saying "Oh you don't have to claim and we aren't going to lynch you" is, quite frankly, stupid. If you tell them they don't have to claim and that there is no real threat of lynch (not that I'm saying we speed lynch) all they have to say is "I won't claim" and everybody's happy. Sure, everybody's happy, but nothing is actually acomplished. There is no real discussion or behavior either. Its absolutely pointless. If you can think of a place to start other than random claims that will actually accomplish something, say it. If not, I'm for Heir claiming. He was incredibly defensive and confrontational and thats a flag.

Bleach- I didn't claim in Bleach, someone else did for me. That doesn't count.

Code Geass- That was extremely close to the end game. You had two confirmed townies including yourself and two so-so ones. I admit that that was a good bit of thinking on your part, but when did I crack?

So, let me ask the town one thing. You're ok with a powerful role like a doctor or a cop coming out on Day-1 itself with with no reason whatsoever?

I still haven't been given a good enough reason to claim. 'You're just as good as anyone to claim at this point' doesn't cut it with me.

And considering that the pressure is also completely unjustified, that also isn't a compelling enough reason.

What is ideal is for you to pressure a newbie on a random vote and observe his reaction since he is more likely to crack when under pressure. The pressure should be enough to make the person sweat and possibly make a mistake, but not enough to force a random claim.

I am not willing to claim on the pretext that I might crack, simply because there are people who are more liable to crack when under pressure than I am.

I'm with Sails. It doesn't make sense to pressure people and then not expect them to claim. What kind of behavior are we looking for, exactly? If we're "pressuring" people without thread of lynch or even having to claim, then what do you expect scum to do, break down and admit themselves? It's not happening.

Quoted from Heir:

Bleach- I didn't claim in Bleach, someone else did for me. That doesn't count.

I mostly bought the claim. Just you were pushing things on others instead of analysing results. Noodle had tracker results, which my roleblocks contradicted. Instead you went harshly on Goldeneye who was a chronic lurker, opting me to believe you were worried about the SK taking you out.

Quoted from Heir:

Code Geass- That was extremely close to the end game. You had two confirmed townies including yourself and two so-so ones. I admit that that was a good bit of thinking on your part, but when did I crack?

??

Immediately jumping on the bandwagon solely because I replaced Ashrzr. "He was the SK, so he's somehow has a larger chance of being scum this time" -- except the main character had yet to be revealed, and there was what, two people left who hadn't claimed at that point?

Quoted from Heir:

So, let me ask the town one thing. You're ok with a powerful role like a doctor or a cop coming out on Day-1 itself with with no reason whatsoever?

I'm not okay with that at all. Though, a cop coming out today wouldn't be the worst thing. Especially if he had a guilty, we could bypass day 1 formalities and confirm his sanity. He could then get doctor protection.

Quoted from Heir:

I still haven't been given a good enough reason to claim. 'You're just as good as anyone to claim at this point' doesn't cut it with me.

I haven't really been pressing for a claim. I'm really on the fence between reassuring pressure on you or believing you could possibly be a power role. On the flipside, you might not be a power role at all, and you might be throwing a hypothetical at me. Or you could be scum.

Quoted from Heir:

What is ideal is for you to pressure a newbie on a random vote and observe his reaction since he is more likely to crack when under pressure. The pressure should be enough to make the person sweat and possibly make a mistake, but not enough to force a random claim.

Pressuring a newbie is a very good idea as well. Downside is, what if they are a power role? Are you okay with outing a powerful role like a doctor or cop who is unlikely to gambit? It's the same extreme you've been using, with an added risk.

Quoted from Heir:

I am not willing to claim on the pretext that I might crack, simply because there are people who are more liable to crack when under pressure than I am.

Others have been saying you could claim because you have a very high amount of votes on yourself. Clearly, a large amount of votes means people want to hear from you. Whether it means a claim or not is your decision, but you seem fixated on saying you do not want to claim under the premise that you may "crack" rather than their reasons.

Quoted from Rot:

He seems way too quick to dismiss Heir and go after others.

That is what I thought as well - it's a shame ABU isn't in the game. Someone who knows Ashrzr's playstyle better than I could really be a benefit here. I don't mean to point the finger here but it came off to me as a diversion tactic:

1. In his first post, he went after another who had yet to post
2. He's suggesting a large amount of votes on the board, meaning less focus on each person
3. He wants to do these plans without the Heir matter resolved. To me, it should be either "Pressure Heir", or "Back off and do X" - X being his vote strategy.