I know we once had a forumer at AOKH who built a trebuchet in his backyard or something.

I have also built one, about 4 foot tall. it can through a baseball almost 200 feet. pretty cool.

I built a small one with 2 friends for a Science experiment testing kinetic and potential energy. We ended up winning second place and smacking a whole bunch of asshats in the face with small rocks. They didn't get really hurt, they just got red spots on their faces for a little while. It was only about 13-14''. Lol, I remember that we had a firing team. My friend set the arm, my other friend loaded it, and checked for any loose parts and I actually aimed and fired it. We got pretty kickass at aiming. We could hit someone in the head almost every time, though we only used rubber, paper, and hollow plastic balls on people we liked.

Someone gave me a broken 6in tall one a few years ago. He also slept over at my house without telling me and stole my bed.

One of the people in my Latin class built an 8 foot tall model trebuchet for a project. It launched a tennis ball tweenty feet.

I'm planning on building one this summer.

There is an episode of the PBS seris secrets of lost empires where they built 2 Trebuchets. They were as far as the 2 designers could tell the demensions of real medieval trebuchets. They were both made with the whole trunk of an english oak for the throwing arm. So thats like 50 foot tall by 4 foot diameter. Also the way AOK showed the trebuchets being packed up and moved is a big steaming pile of bullshite. Secrets of lost empires said that trebuchets were build from scratch on site or the raw materials were brought in.

It's funny how the more I learn about the real middle ages that AOK faction and unit names seems to be microshaft pissing in my ear and telling me it's raining.

Of course Lars, but really, AoK wasn't a realism game, it was a fun game. It wouldn't exactly be fun to take villagers onto a battlefield so you can spend 1 minute building a trebuchet that wouldn't be able to move afterwards.

i used to be in this class called MESA in school and we tried to build a treb (about 9 feet tall). but as you would know it the usual problems occur, money being the biggest, the class didnt get the funds it usually gets from the association that runs it. then tech problems came along, where would we put it? where do we get the shit for it? then there was the most crippling, the moron factor, we had these total retard bastards in the class that would saw the wrong parts thereby weakening it, use the wrong nails (1 1/2 long inches to go through more than 3 inches of wood) and to top it off none of them could tie a decent knot and would try to do heavy lifting with that rope. bless them though, some tried to be helpfull and brought in materials, although most of them were made of aluminum and plastic that i could crush in my hand.

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Stronghold.

TOP

TOP what?
i love stronghold. i build castles so big that i cant make the enemy attack anymore by pressing F1.

"It's funny how the more I learn about the real middle ages that AOK faction and unit names seems to be microshaft pissing in my ear and telling me it's raining."

How the hell do you expect them to make it? i think that they did a really goodjob at making aok realistic, you can make everything perfect man (example: a dude hitting the ground w/ a hammer for a while, then the building pops up) i think putting it in carts is believable enough for a game, and who's to say taht some lord or other never packed a tribuchet up after use to use it over again? if they built it from scratch every time, that would be damn expensive, and would they just leave it there after the battle was done? no, they would PACK IT UP AND USE IT AGAIN!
common sense......

I've made a 10inch model for my nephew, which ranges some 10-15 ft. Just had problems with the tiny sling device.

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The packing of siege weapons arised just to a simple fact:

The forests around the cities had been chopped, so the attacking army had problems to find enough fitting would nearby to build siege weapons from scratch. Therefore, mobile siege weapons have been developed.

In fact, to build them onsite during siege is much easier, and after leaving, you either destroy (or use the wood to burn down the city). Mobile siege weapons reduced the speed of the armies significantly, esp. in difficult territories (Ardennes, Black Forest etc.). Nevertheless, they became state of the art.

Similar thing happened on some coasts, where the Brits and the Dutch chopped of the trees for the masts of their ships. Once those forests had been gone, ship tech developed mobile mast systems (means to have the mast divdided in 3-4 parts, instead of one).

[This message has been edited by Targan Khan (edited 05-09-2004 @ 05:20 AM).]

I have a question. Did the Romans have a Trebuchet?

i dont think so.

they had catapults and mangonels though.

i also think that it was invented about 900ad in china but was meager in power compared to the modified arab and euro ones that had pulleys and counterweights (theres were pulled down by ropes from where the counterweight would later be)

though i could be mistaken...

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That would be me. I believe I had posted pictures of it.

The largest I had was a 16ft beam, only because 16ft was the longest board I could find without special ordering it. I could get a 9lb ball of lead about 100 yards. (estimated) It only lasted about twenty shots before it started snapping parts, and my dad wouldnt let me fire it because it was too dangerous. I'll have to pull up a pic of it.

I've also had a few catapults and a balista, and have worked on a cannon a few times but cant get it to fire safely.

(I'm the one in black armour. The treb has a 12ft beam with a 190lb counterweight. In the background is a balista)
http://uploaded.interestingnonetheless.net/Stoffel/josh with trebuchet.bmp
[BMP, (285.99 KB)]

Is that a mid century mooning. Are you actually founding your own barrel, that's got to be amazing.

[This message has been edited by Barbarosa (edited 05-14-2004 @ 04:40 AM).]

Your counterpoise engine look like more a mangoneau (mangonel in english ?)than a trebuchet Stoffel. Both are counterpoise siege engine family.

Quote:

Define what you mean by mangonel. I have always seen a mangonel as essentially what most people think of as a catapult. A treb I see as a beam rotating by means of a counterweight(rather than torsion) mounted on an axle in a semi-central possition, with a sling to fire the projectile.

Both are counterpoise siege engine, but for mangonel counterpoise is directly attached to the beam when it's not for the trebuchet. Other this technical difference, it implie the bolt trajectory was slightly different. It requiered also different skill and training for both engineers and crews. Mostly in case of mangonel crew were present and pull on rope attached to the counterpoise when the beam was released to increase movement speed. That wasn't for the trebuchet, of course, where the counterpoise wasn't in the beam axe, but it's rotated on his own axe in a balancing/rolling movement semi independant to the beam.

I'm sorry if I'm not too clear.

Here picture one a catapult, picture two a trebuchet, picture three a mangonel.

http://www.cathares.org/mma.html

(Click on the picture for better view)

Probably difference seems insignifiant, but for the few I know they are not.

Last for those who are interested in build and use mangonel and trebuchet, be careful at start.
Even with skilled crews, there was accident with these engines in medieval warfare. Most common was the engine throwed bolt(s) verticaly that falled back on the crews. Using dangerous projectiles could not be advised especially for first tests.

Edit : other pictures (just what I was looking for)

http://perso.club-internet.fr/glecornu/gdtrebuchet.htm

http://perso.club-internet.fr/glecornu/mangonneau.htm

[This message has been edited by Jalis (edited 05-14-2004 @ 05:18 PM).]

I understand what you mean. Essentially, a treb has a free swinging counterweight, while a mangonel has a fixed swing counterweight, and like you said, excluding the numerouse technical details.

Even by that definition, mine is deffinatly a trebuchet. You just cannot tell because the beam is relaxed.

I am also planning to build a trebuchet this summer, with a few of my friends, I have decided to make it about 10-15 feet tall, any helpful suggestions.

So, technically, are mangonels more effective then a trebuchet? Or are the the smae given their similarity in design?

Trebuchet tended to be more imposant than mangonel, but it's not the main difference. Main difference was probably the projectile trajectory. It was the result of a difference of conception between trebuchet and mangonel. For counterpoise system, Stoffel explained it with more simplicity and efficienty that I did. Point this counterpoise system difference directly affected the balistic of the engine. In "rest" position the trebuchet beam was vertical, when he was slightly inclined toward the target for the trebuchet. System to release the sling was also different for the treb and the mangonel, always because the projectile wasn't intended to have the same course. Methode to calcul the shot was also different, mangonel played on the lenght of the sling rope as well as the impulsion exerced by crew on the counterpoise when the beam was released ect ...

Trebuchet was possibly a dangerous engine (for crews) but mangonel was more it seems. Mangonel requiered also more skilled crew (training in team for traction on the counterweight to increase swinging movement) and more skilled engineers. Probably the mangonel was more accurate than the trebuchet, but requiered more training and skilled crews. It's perhaps expectation but the trebuchet had perhaps better range.

To finish with projectile trajectory difference it implied that trebuchet were used both to attack and defend strongholds, when mostly mangonels were used to attack, Because of the relativly low course of the projectile for the last. Trebuchets with a more like "bell" course could be used behind walls to harass besiegers.

Compared effictness of both engine is not really the question. Did the design made a difference : certainly yes. It's a bit like to said a flail is a mace with a slightly different design, use and effect are the same as well as skill and training to master the weapon.

Its great that so many people are building trebuchets!

yeah but they could get the treb to go to a lower trajectory by changing on the slack rope net that holds in the stone