Ash's "Journey of Enlightenment"

The start

Quoted from Post 299:

It's simple logic. I'm not convinced. There's been no counterclaim as doc. Every single mafia game has a doc, or some sort of protective role.

The attempt to appear against heir

Quoted from Post 314:

Pretty simple. If Thy is lying, the play makes no sense and he should be vigged. If he's telling the truth, why the hell did he waste an entire night and two days on this?

It's really not rocket science. If there's someone who you know is scum, and can out them. Y revealing your role, always do it no matter what. And if you're telling the truth, for all we know, Herr is a mafia hitman.

Vote: Herr

The Hmm... maybe my scum buddy wont die epiphany

Quoted from Post 321:

Hmmm, you raise a good point. Let's see.

We lynch Thymole, HE was telling the truth as doc. Then we know you're scum.

We lynch Thymole, he was lying. We know he and Gil are quite obviously scum. That's two direct scum hits.

We lynch Herr, he was telling the truth. That's two ultimate scum hits but at the loss of the doc.

We lynch Herr, he was lying. We don't know where to go from there.

Very interesting point you raised there.

Unvote

The costs may actually be greater if we lynch Herr. Same risk, but lower reward. Whereas lynching Thymole has a potentially higher reward, yet the same risk. I need some more input, however, and not the same four people posting.

The, friendly slap on the back to herr

Quoted from Post 328:

Hmmm, very intriguing, very intriguing indeed. I have to say, even if Thy really is the doc, Herr, as scum, deserves to live today because of the excellent points he's made. In other words, either way I won't feel bad.

Vote: Thymole

And then the Down Boy attitude (aimed at me)

Quoted from Post 342:

I'm disregarding why you would do what you do as scum since it's irrelevant, is actually what it boils down to.

That's not to say your play isn't strange.

Other points of interest... A setup early on for rationalizing Herr's survival

Quoted from Post 228:

Agreed, if scum want to win, they will not kill you tonight.

The "Not Herr" Miniseries

Quoted from Posts 181-184:

This doesn't make any sense. I'm not going to vote for Heir just because he said his name wrong or whatever, and we're supposed to take his word for it. Pretty poor thought processes going on here, not to mention the long posts are very distracting and pointless.

And FYI, It's My Death isn't a song by Bon Jovi. Fail. Seriously, do we really believe Gil here?

Sorry for quad-post.
Even if yes, insane results of most of the names aren't really possible/logical. In the end, the role become kinda useles
Insane and paranoid cops are extremely common, and in the grand scheme of things they are useless too. Not convinced in the slightest that Heir is scum.

Now does anyone think Ash might have a connection to herr?

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Town Crier's 400,000th Post: The Ultimate Sig Post

yawn...

maybe that was a bit overdone :P

mass prod please ferret

Ferret, can cops investigate themselves?

Maybe.

---

Bast, Plaid, Buffy & Bingo need to post some. VC, send Buffy on over our way... I'll email the others when I have time tomo.rrow

I've never seen this gibberish for a lynch, with a cop result and doc coming out.
Will read this later.

If you guys discuss this much before blindly lynching a VT, then it'd be very good.



Herr is scum! He even confessed!

Herr, I also want the flavor for your role

Quoted from Thymole:

AND I concede that i was wrong. Upon rechecking it is the RIVAL songs that are the enemies. Not the NEW ones. Although this does also support my argument.

Rival songs?

Quoted from Thymole:

Yes but thats just not worth it. The most important roles are the cop and the doc. I wouldnt be so rash as to risk such a strategy.

It is hardly rashness, the time period that you would have needed to take them out doesn't get extended, neither does your group's exposure to the cop if you can get me lynched today.

Quoted from Thymole:

No one i have seen, other than you and ash has supported this random cop disruptor theory.

What? Gil himself said something that effectively amounted to "Since anything can happen in Ferret's games I am not fully convinced about the validity of my results" yesterday. And I shall just proceed to demonstrate how it makes sense for there to be a disruptor of some kind.

The fact is. Ash is blatantly siding with you herr. So if you're scum, then he is 99% likely to be scum as well. Thus, all of these are attached to two scum hits.

I know Ash fantasizes about me in his dreams, but he doesn't love me so much so as to put himself that far out there as a mafia mate.

1) yes a name cop. Who came out of nowhere to contradict you name. With no other motivation other than to share a result. What scum would do that? Whats the motivation?

Get rid of the doc? It's My Life particularly alludes to that possibility. Or he's telling the truth about the result that he got, meaning that the result has been tampered with.

2) I dont think this is unheard of

Ok, now tell me, what's the point of a name cop who can investigate himself? He already knows his name, so it's redundant. Unless, his results can be tampered with. Then it would completely make sense to allow that.

Of course, if Gil is scum he most likely isn't able to investigate anyone, let alone himself.

3) Yes. I have explained this. I was idiotically relying on the SK, which i have shown evidence of doing.

I quite clearly remember asking you why you even thought there was an SK when there was only 1 kill. I don;t remember getting an answer, maybe now you would want to enlighten us?

4)Prove to me there was ever a consensus. Find one person who suggested the doc coming out. One.

I will find that. In the meantime, have a look at this

Quoted from Thymole 188:

If there is no doc, Herr is being truthful
If there is, he is probably lying
And a doc:scum trade isn't the best, but if we end up relying on a scum claiming doc... That's bad.

Again, definitely doesn't look like you are the doc. How do you achieve a consensus when you put stuff this way?

And Veridian supported the doc coming out, if I remember correctly. I am traveling currently and have limited net access so can only check on this tomorrow. Only 15 minutes left on my net pass.

Given referance to a recent, and similar behavior, to prove that it is in fact plausible.

My inspiration theory is equally plausible, if not more, in that case.

Herr, I also want the flavor for your role

Already provided some way back yesterday, give me till later tonight or maybe tomorrow if I'm too tired and I will provide the post number for you.

I have to admit I did not read that entire debate. I have formed an opinion, nonetheless.

I didn't trust Heir yesterday, and I still don't trust him.

We received a cop result on day-1 from Gil which gave a corrupted song name for Heir.
It is extremely unlikely, were there a "cop disruptor," that they would have randomly targeted the cop on night-0.
It is also unlikely Gil would have made the gambit of claiming name/flavor cop as scum on day-1, for reasons discussed at that time.

We received a counterclaim on day-2 from Mole.
It is reasonable for Mole to have thought there is an SK after only a single night of actions.
In retrospect, it would have been preferable for him to have counterclaimed on day-1, at least when it became clear we were moving towards a no lynch. However, I can understand why he was reluctant to do so.

If we lynch Heir, and he turns out to be the doc, we have an immediate target in Mole and a possible target in Gil. (Gil could have legitimately received a skewed result from his investigation of Heir and a normal result for himself.) If Heir is scum, we've confirmed Mole and Gil.
If we lynch Mole, and he turns out to be the doc, we have an immediate target in Heir and we've verified Gil's results. If Mole is scum, we've confirmed Heir.

I think it is perfectly reasonable to think, when Heir was facing a damning cop result on day-1, he would claim as doc with the intent of exposing the real doc for his scum buddies to kill during the night. It is unusual to escape a guilty cop result, and frankly I don't understand how he managed it. Regardless, as a scum player facing the gallows in the face of a guilty cop result, claiming doc is a pretty good play. Worst case scenario, you are counterclaimed and your buddies know who the real doc is. Best case scenario is what happened: No one counterclaims, the town lynches no one, and you stay alive for another night.

I'm inclined to lynch Heir.

Bast, I think I speak for all of us when I say, if you don't read everything on the table, and still form an opinion, GTFO.

Now does anyone think Ash might have a connection to herr?

I'm not really sure what you achieved except that you summed all my points up in one post. So thanks for that.

Really, it's funny how you disregard my points for how you're a better lynch and scramble to try to point out some connection to Herr through my reasoning. Anyone with half a brain cell can read my points and know that you're a better lynch than Herr is.

Where the problem lies if ignorant inactives like Bast don't even read the points and just give up and vote for Herr, and risk a grave mistake.

I've never seen this gibberish for a lynch, with a cop result and doc coming out.

A name cop that can investigate himself.

A doc who wasted a day phase and let a townie die that night before finally counterclaiming.

Not to mention the supposed name cop and doc have been backing each other up blatantly for the entire game trying to get Herr lynched.

I rest my case.

Had a horrible realisation that even though I've left HG, I haven't mentioned it in this thread.

Might be a good idea to get me out and replace me. Sorry for neglecting and not completing such a good game.

I will reply as of now to the above statement, since I haven't been able to sit up and read due to my predicament.

Quoted from Ash:

A name cop that can investigate himself.

I wasn't really sure of it, so I asked if I can be investigated myself, then I'd like to investigate myself, or else investigate Xenophone.
And yes, I have seen cop investigate themselves. Most recently at double dethy at Spore, which gave me the idea.

Quoted from Ash:

A doc who wasted a day phase and let a townie die that night before finally counterclaiming.

And have himself killed last night.
It was good he didn't claim. A doc over a VT anyday.

Quoted from Ash:

Not to mention the supposed name cop and doc have been backing each other up blatantly for the entire game trying to get Herr lynched.

Because herr has a damning cop result and a counter claim against him.
If not backing up together is the thing that a cop and a doc will do, then advise what to do.

---

There's no place I can be, since I found Serenity.

Stop playing so erotic, dammit! - theferret
Well, that's like wanting to get raped by a nine-inch dick instead of a ten-inch. - Moff
I was being stupid. - Herr

@Bingo: thanks for not letting me quadruple post.

From the previous day:

Quoted from Heir:

You're lynching a claimed full doc who has not been counterclaimed

It started going without saying that a counterclaim was necessary or any evidence on Herr would not be considered.

Quoted from Xeno:

Im defintely not one to lynch a claimed doc.

Someone else indicating that they would not lynch Herr unless he was counterclaimed and his claim as doc would, in such a case, be rendered useless.

Quoted from Ash:

It's part of town psyche to take [an important role's] word for it or let him be counterclaimed, like we're doing with Heir as doctor.

More indication that unless Herr was going to be counterclaimed, he wouldn't be lynched.

Besides Thy, when VC voted for a No Lynch, and Bast unvoted Herr, it should've been clear at that point that the majority of people were not going to lynch Herr without a counterclaim. Yet, for some reason, you thought it ok to go into the night phase and let a townie die. It should've been elementary to realize that scum do not kill those who are scummy (in this case, Herr).

All of these posts [from Heir, Xeno, VC, Bast, Catabre who posted several times but never voted, and myself] we are assuming you read these knowing that Herr was scum. Anyone who would really be doc, and thus know that someone else was scum, would counterclaim them. It just doesn't fly with me and doesn't make a whole lot of sense that you'd just let things float by, and let us all go into a no-lynch, KNOWING that Herr was scum. It just isn't rational when you look back on the day and your behavior.

And thank you too, Gil.

I wasn't really sure of it, so I asked if I can be investigated myself, then I'd like to investigate myself, or else investigate Xenophone.
And yes, I have seen cop investigate themselves. Most recently at double dethy at Spore, which gave me the idea.

Cops. Not name cops.

And have himself killed last night.
It was good he didn't claim. A doc over a VT anyday.

But we could've lynched Herr THAT DAY and gotten scum rooted out. And for all we know, he could've been a mafia hitman, and we wouldn't have to worry about kills anymore. In the large scale, what Thy theoretically did was a VT+Doc for Scum trade. Because, if we believed him, he would be killed TONIGHT, instead of last night. And, of course, a VT died because he never counterclaimed. That translates into a VT+Doc:Scum trade as opposed to a Doc:Scum trade. Think about it.

Because herr has a damning cop result and a counter claim against him.

You're just moving in circles. I say, "Evidence from a name cop that can investigate himself and a completely irrational doctor that keep scummily backing each other up?" Then you just say, Herr has damning evidence. Repeat.

Quoted from Ash:

Bast, I think I speak for all of us when I say, if you don't read everything on the table, and still form an opinion, GTFO.

You know ash, Bast really summarizes it up perfectly.
Anyway, its a total win win for scum here, even after we lynch herr[Which I don't see coming, thanks to certain few]

You know ash, Bast really summarizes it up perfectly.

He neglects a few things, most notably that, in certain situations, we've confirmed that you lied about your result.

But he didn't even read the debate, so we can't blame him.

Even I haven't read the pointless result.

Care explaining where I lied?

And explain clearly why you think Herr is doc, when I don't see him giving us flavor, or even telling us in which post he did, since he's supposedly tired, but can post a massive argument.

I think Herr is doc because I don't think Thy is doc, based on the way he was acting.

But the actual lynching of Thy I place on my reasoning about risk vs reward which I've posted enough times already.

Care explaining where I lied?

I don't know if you have yet. And if you didn't read my posts, that's on you.

I think its perfect the way Thy has been acting.
Would you really like to have the doc outed on first day? Unless you are scum, of course.

About lying, I'll read your reasons.

First time I see the town not trusting the cop and doc, and trusting a scum claiming doc who has cop results against him.

I think its perfect the way Thy has been acting.
Would you really like to have the doc outed on first day? Unless you are scum, of course.

I already said why Thy made a mistake, if he is the doc. Try reading my last few posts and see if you can find why he should've counterclaimed yesterday.

First time I see the town not trusting the cop and doc, and trusting a scum claiming doc who has cop results against him.

You're doing that circular argument I just pointed out earlier.

Quoted from Ash post 366:

we've confirmed that you lied about your result.

Quoted from Ash post 368:

I don't know if you have yet.

Decide Ash,
contradicting statements won't do.

I'll put forward my case against Herr summarized after I get my leg some rest. Can't stay typing all time.

If you lynch Herr by then, I'd be glad and happy.

Decide Ash,
contradicting statements won't do.

That's not a contradiction. I said in certain situations based on whether we lynch Thy or Herr, depending on who's lying, we've confirmed that you lied.

Quoted from Ash:

Where the problem lies if ignorant inactives like Bast don't even read the points and just give up and vote for Herr, and risk a grave mistake.

Rather than snap back at your absurd ad hominem with more of the same, I'll just assume that you misunderstood my post. I did not mean that I had not read any of the debate, only that I skipped 6-8 posts at the end when everyone was just repeating themselves. You'll also notice that I did not vote for Heir; I simply stated my opinion, open to change with new information. (BTW, I skipped some of the posts of that debate, because there was no new information being presented.)

That being said, if you still want me to "GTFO," I am willing to be replaced. I do not want to play, if people want me "TFO."

Bast, I would love for you to continue to play. You've proven yourself to be an intelligent person which is why I made you Emerson in Invisible Man, but I am just slightly annoyed when I hear people admit to not reading posts and still forming an opinion.

OK, what I mistakenly left out.

If Gil is lying, which I doubt because (as stated in my earlier post) we addressed the irrationality of him lying to get Heir lynched yesterday and determined it unlikely.

Actually, if Gil is lying or not doesn't affect my summary of the possibilities, unless you're suggesting we lynch Gil. Maybe that's an idea.

We lynch Gil and he is town, we could be confirming Mole and have a scum target in Heir. However, we won't be told whether he is sane or not; so if we lynch Gil and he is town, we have killed our cop and have confirmed nothing.
We lynch Gil and he is scum, we have likely confirmed Heir and have a scum target in Mole.

Now, I'm going to quote myself here:

If we lynch Heir, and he turns out to be the doc, we have an immediate target in Mole and a possible target in Gil. (Gil could have legitimately received a skewed result from his investigation of Heir and a normal result for himself.) If Heir is scum, we've confirmed Mole and Gil.
If we lynch Mole, and he turns out to be the doc, we have an immediate target in Heir and we've verified Gil's results. If Mole is scum, we've confirmed Heir.

And say again, there is more to be gained from lynching Heir in this situation than Mole or Gil.

there is more to be gained from lynching Heir in this situation than Mole or Gil.

more information to be gained

Fixed

Ash, I'm the resident douchebag around here. Cut it out.

Anyone who's spoken to me on MSN knows I'm a very nice, cuddly person. But in mafia there's no room for that. I'll try to cut out my sarcastic humor a bit though, I suppose.

(Gil could have legitimately received a skewed result from his investigation of Heir and a normal result for himself.)

Why?

Conditions? Someone's role, like Heir keeps claiming? I don't know, but why is irrelevant in context. My point was only that, if Heir turns up town, it has not been confirmed that Gil is scum. I also noted that he would be high on the list of scum candidates, but the situation would not be the same as Mole in that scenario whose scum alignment would be a near certainty.

THank you bast

Just think about it? Why would, if we were scum, Gil randomly come at Herr with a result that would get him killed, and why would I, then double the risk to counter claim Herr? It's not logical. More opinions please

Conditions? Someone's role, like Heir keeps claiming? I don't know, but why is irrelevant in context. My point was only that, if Heir turns up town, it has not been confirmed that Gil is scum. I also noted that he would be high on the list of scum candidates, but the situation w

1)I don't think ferret likes conditions, and for good reason.

2)Why would the brain surgeon not target Gil again the next night? If he's one-shot, why would he risk using it night 0? On that note, that's quite a lucky shot that he hit a cop Night 0.

Besides, think of it this way, in such a case, the cop could investigate Gil that night and there would at least be a potential lead.

Just think about it? Why would, if we were scum, Gil randomly come at Herr with a result that would get him killed, and why would I, then double the risk to counter claim Herr? It's not logical. More opinions please

WIFOM won't help you.

Not to mention, it's not like you've done much logical play as town either.

I don't understand why you would invsitage yourself on night 1 instead of night 0?

Actually, now that I'm thinking more on it too.
With Buffy and I mason partners why didn't you investigate one of us?
Look at it this way,

You investigate us and claim your result
--You say you get opposite result on us (in case lying) we know your scum and have three confirmed townies (Herr, Me, Buffy)
--You say you get the correct results (which you may lye about but w/e) we believe you town and lynch Herr (again the potentional HERE for three confirmed townies of Gil, Me, Buffy)
--You say w/e and lynch Me/Buffy because of it, we know your lying/truthful because of that and STILL end up with Two confirmed townies (U and Buffy or Me and U or Me and Herr or Buffy and Herr)

Quoted from Ash:

Just think about it? Why would, if we were scum, Gil randomly come at Herr with a result that would get him killed, and why would I, then double the risk to counter claim Herr? It's not logical. More opinions please

WIFOM won't help you.

WIFOM, yeah,
But try getting this into your mind, why out of nowhere I'd try jump in on a player like Herr. If I were scum, I could've targeted a less experienced player like Xeno.

Quoted from VC:

I don't understand why you would invsitage yourself on night 1 instead of night 0?

Actually, now that I'm thinking more on it too.
With Buffy and I mason partners why didn't you investigate one of us?
Look at it this way,

You investigate us and claim your result
--You say you get opposite result on us (in case lying) we know your scum and have three confirmed townies (Herr, Me, Buffy)
--You say you get the correct results (which you may lye about but w/e) we believe you town and lynch Herr (again the potentional HERE for three confirmed townies of Gil, Me, Buffy)
--You say w/e and lynch Me/Buffy because of it, we know your lying/truthful because of that and STILL end up with Two confirmed townies (U and Buffy or Me and U or Me and Herr or Buffy and Herr)

Interesting point. I was about to send in your name.

Even I kinda doubted whether I was insane or paranoid name cop.
If I investigated you, your song had chances of getting an inverse result, Living on a prayer- Dying on a prayer.
I needed a townie result, an innocent sort of, that'd implicate Herr further.
Then I saw at Spore dethy that Brighty had investigated himself, so I thought, lemme try investigate myself.
I sent another mail to ferret if investigating myself wasn't possible, investigate Xeno, since Wanted dead or alive doesn't really have inverse name[ Wanted alive or dead doesn't count, we're talking different words.]

Hence, my action. I sent in mine just hours before day started.

Lynch Scenarios

Lynch Mole
G One scum down, and you'll allege I'm scum as well.
One townie down, mafia kills cop, mafia wins

Lynch Me.
G One scum down, Mole killed.
I Cop killed, doc killed by mafia, mafia wins

Lynch Herr.
I If he's innocent, scum in me and Mole.[ Mafia claiming both as doc and cop. SERIOUSLY!] vig kills one, town lynches other, town wins next day.
G If he's guilty, we have one scum down, another found in Ash[Its clear, either you're masons or mafia mates] and 2 townie confirmed.[Me and mole]
Town will definitely win.
ADDITIONAL FACTORS: Cop result, Counter claimed.


Now see, whose lynch is preferable.

But try getting this into your mind, why out of nowhere I'd try jump in on a player like Herr. If I were scum, I could've targeted a less experienced player like Xeno.

Leaving aside the point that this is again WIFOM, yes, but Xenophone isn't the doctor, you have the same exposure for less reward.

I sent another mail to ferret if investigating myself wasn't possible, investigate Xeno, since Wanted dead or alive doesn't really have inverse name[ Wanted alive or dead doesn't count, we're talking different words.]

Again, a name cop who can investigate himself is absolutely redundant unless there is some way his results can be tampered with. So, if we are to believe that you are a name cop who can investigate himself, then we must also believe the above.

Lynch Mole
G One scum down, and you'll allege I'm scum as well.
One townie down, mafia kills cop, mafia wins

Firstly, what format are you using here?

Secondly, how wrong is this analysis? Firstly, with Mole being scum, the cop is still protected for another night, even if it's you. And we would have a clear cut scum in you anyway, I do not see how the mafia "wins" if we catch two of them at one go.

Lynch Me.
G One scum down, Mole killed.
I Cop killed, doc killed by mafia, mafia wins

The same goes for lynching me. I get killed, the doc dies, the cop dies that night plus Ashrzr becomes a major target for being the only definitely confirmed townie around.

Lynch Herr.
I If he's innocent, scum in me and Mole.[ Mafia claiming both as doc and cop. SERIOUSLY!] vig kills one, town lynches other, town wins next day.
G If he's guilty, we have one scum down, another found in Ash[Its clear, either you're masons or mafia mates] and 2 townie confirmed.[Me and mole]
Town will definitely win.

Again, if we lynch Thymole, if he's guilty (and he will be), we kill you tonight, town wins the next dayh. Your scenario doesn't really establish me as a clear choice to be lynched at all.

Replies to Bast's posts in next post.

It is also unlikely Gil would have made the gambit of claiming name/flavor cop as scum on day-1, for reasons discussed at that time.

I don't remember this being expressly discussed, but once he'd made everyone name claim you'd think it would make sense to claim as name cop?

If we lynch Heir, and he turns out to be the doc, we have an immediate target in Mole and a possible target in Gil. (Gil could have legitimately received a skewed result from his investigation of Heir and a normal result for himself.) If Heir is scum, we've confirmed Mole and Gil.
If we lynch Mole, and he turns out to be the doc, we have an immediate target in Heir and we've verified Gil's results. If Mole is scum, we've confirmed Heir.

If Mole is scum, you've confirmed that Ashrzr is town because there's no way he's going to go after his scum partner like that. And we still have a possible target in Gil. Confirming two people and giving you a lead for tonight/the next day? I think you'll find that that's just as good if not better than any of the scenarios that you provide above.

Flavor is in the middle of post 205.

Again, see this:

Quoted from Thymole 188:

And a doc:scum trade isn't the best, but if we end up relying on a scum claiming doc... That's bad.

So, he himself acknowledges that a doc counterclaiming scum in that case would be worth it, and yet fails to counterclaim me yesterday? Leaving aside everything else, how on Earth is he accusing anyone of illogical play?

One townie down, mafia kills cop, mafia wins

Mafia kills name cop. Please quit calling yourself cop to trying and fool everyone else into thinking your more important than you actually are, and call yourself by your real name.

I If he's innocent, scum in me and Mole.[ Mafia claiming both as doc and cop. SERIOUSLY!] vig kills one, town lynches other, town wins next day.

If there is a vig?

You're assuming the mafia is too powerful. We already know of three VTs, I'm sure the town has some powerful tricks up their sleeve.

If he's guilty, we have one scum down, another found in Ash[Its clear, either you're masons or mafia mates]

How is it clear?

I like you deliberately neglect some stuff and paint the lynch of Herr in a favorable light. It's CLEAR he and I are mafia? But it's not clear you and Mole are? Plus, you assume we have a vig. And you also neglect that there's two highly probable townies if Thy is lying (one completely probable). In the end, both of the lynches are nearly identical in outcome except Thy is a lot scummier than Herr is (don't ask me to say why, I've told you a million times if you've even read my posts) and you're a lot more likely to be scum in his lie than I am in Herr's lie.

Secondly, how wrong is this analysis? Firstly, with Mole being scum, the cop is still protected for another night, even if it's you.

And we would have a clear cut scum in you anyway, I do not see how the mafia "wins" if we catch two of them at one go. [especially since only VTs have died so far]

If Mole is scum, you've confirmed that Ashrzr is town because there's no way he's going to go after his scum partner like that. And we still have a possible target in Gil. Confirming two people and giving you a lead for tonight/the next day? I think you'll find that that's just as good if not better than any of the scenarios that you provide above.

Plus there's some stuff I didn't even catch that Herr found.

Interesting point. I was about to send in your name.

Even I kinda doubted whether I was insane or paranoid name cop.
If I investigated you, your song had chances of getting an inverse result, Living on a prayer- Dying on a prayer.
I needed a townie result, an innocent sort of, that'd implicate Herr further.
Then I saw at Spore dethy that Brighty had investigated himself, so I thought, lemme try investigate myself.
I sent another mail to ferret if investigating myself wasn't possible, investigate Xeno, since Wanted dead or alive doesn't really have inverse name[ Wanted alive or dead doesn't count, we're talking different words.]

Hence, my action. I sent in mine just hours before day started.

But VC was making the point that he would've been a better target, and he's right. Changing your mind just because you saw Brighty do it doesn't really make a whole lot of sense. Cops don't investigate people because they're inspired from other games, they do to catch scum, and in some cases, to strategically find their sanity. It would've been more beneficial to do both if you didn't investigate yourself.

Ferret, I think we need a replacement for the likes of Catabre too.

There is no way town loses this even if the wrong lynch is made today. Whoever is lynched, you have at least two confirmed townies plus a mason group. Scum will have nowhere to hide. So stop pretending as if this decision is make or break, Gil.

I'd like to point out that if Herr is scum then Gils results are equally valuable, if not greater than a normal cops's.

And this is an important lynch

Indeed they are, but the fact that he investigated himself, both behavior and technicality-wise, really added a lot of disbelief on my part.

Let's go back to Gil's investigation methods as described by flavor again. He apparently questions people in taverns about other people and hence gleans gossip. How does he get information about himself through this?

Oh, and Vote: Thymole

Although the more I think about Gil;'s claim the less sense it seems to make.

A name cop in a game based on songs, where scum potentially have warped song names makes sense and it sounds an awful lot like something ferret would do. But the problem is Gil's behavior makes no sense nor does a name cop being allowed to investigate himself.

Stop

All you guys keep doing is restating that we are playing strangely.

Let me start with Gil.

He got a ba result on you. He pursued it. He admittedthe possibility that his result may be skewed. He tried investigating himself to find the answer, something which ferret said could possibly be allowed. Gil has since, tried to get the person who he had a bad result on lynched.

He came forward with no motivations, an presented a result on Herr before he claimed doctor.

---

Myself

I saw Herr claimed doctor. I did my best to get the town's opinion without exposing myself as the doc. As I showed, I repeated this behavior in Lolcatz mafia very recently. I then realized that no one would lynch Herr unless I exposed myself. So I did.

Again, I had no particular reason to do this if I were scum.

You guys seem to base all of your evidence on me on my subtle asking if the town would like to out the doc. Well guess what? That's the point. I don't need to explain why I'd want to appear to not be the doc. Anything you quote that makes me appear to not have a clue who the doc was, was exactly what I was trying to do.

Ash and Herr are blatantly working together. Just lynch Herr.

And no, there was no consensus for me to come out.

And again, I refer you to my demonstration of how a name cop who can investigate himself is pointless unless he could get skewed results. The lack of motivation is the only thing that is stopping me from going for him first instead of you, I suppose we will find that out in due course of time once you're lynched and turn out to be scum.

As for yourself, forget pretending not to know who the doc was, I myself referred to your quote about you yourself acknowledging how relying on a scum claiming doc was worse than a doc:scum trade. And yet I wasn't counterclaimed yesterday? Not strange?

As for no particular reason to do this, how about getting rid of the doc through a lynch so that you have a free shot during night?

Ash and Herr are blatantly working together. Just lynch Herr.

And you were accusing me of making annoying statements as arguments earlier? We're working together only because we see flaws in your arguments.

Gil and Thymole are both basically using flawed logic to get me lynched. Just lynch Thymole.

And no, there was no consensus for me to come out.

No openly stated consensus, but certainly it was quite clearly implied that I wouldn't be lynched unless there was a counterclaim. There was none until today, a wasted day, night and another innocent townie's death later.

If you're scum, Gil can be considered a cop. He is by useless

Myself. No, there was no implied consensus. After I saw no general calling for my claim I realized the potential for you to be killed by the SK. I have already gone over this.

The evidence against me is "strange" behavior

The evidence against you is a counterclaim and a guilty result!

The evidence against Gil is that he investigated himself. Which ferret pseudo implied was possible

We need a prod

There is nothing more to be said. The whole argument has been recycled through the last three pages.