i wouldnt argue that iro is very strong, i think they are one of the best 3 in this patch, but i think you are slightly over-stating their power.
- Free map control.
the only true free one is possibly the first tavios. well it is a good advantage and i hate it, it doesnt exactly control the whole map, every other travios either cost them VS to dance, or come from age up where they dont get as good politicians as euros (wise woman VS quatermaster?) - Very strong and fast rush. Iroquois are actually very strong in colonial, it is just that their FF is even more OP.
iro rush is not strong, really it is not. I mean all you really get from it it 11 fast tomas, after that its just a normal muskts rush that any euro civ can pull off. while it is decent enough to kill someone without decent defense, it is not the same class of jan rush or strelet rush.
- Best Turtle in the game. 3 Great House TC + firepit + agrarian ways =GG.
the problem with iro turtle, if you actually tried it against decent players, is that you opponent goes semi-FI and bombard you with mortars, while his eco is weaker, he has stronger units, and you will have a very hard time killing his mortars if you didnt go into age4 quickly - which you wouldnt have done if you choose to turtle boom with ag ways + farm/plantations.
- Skirmisher that can become invisible = legal map hack + best villager killer in the game. EK actually requires a card to become a good villager killer, FP requires nothing at all.
while this is good, i generally only lose 1~2 vils per game to the invisibles, stealth requires a lot of effort in mid game its just not worth it, i dont see any iro use stealth non-stop. i fear ruthless ERK a lot more, because i have nothing to kill them when they come for my villagers.
- Extremely strong late game. Light cannon + Toma shield + Hussars that cost no gold = GG.
that only last till the euro player reaches his own late game, native late game are muich weaker than euros it is a bit crazy, their plantations only produce about 60% of what euro's do, aztec have the best late game eco out of the natives yet still cant catch up with euros.
tomas suffer same problem most native units suuffer - lack of upgrades in late game, euro core infantry generally get 60% from vet + RG, 30% from cards, then 10% from AA.
I agree with other bits that i didnt quote, to an extend.
you also have to realise iro have some weaknesses as well:
1~2 less starting vil compared to euros
lack of decent cavalry
very gold heavy ranged cavalry, becomes un-cost-effictive once mines run out.
lack of canon counter in age3
weak late game eco
as for the iro nerf, as many had said in the past GH nerf is all thats needed.
starting wood has to stay because longhouse cost more than 100 wood and become unbuildable with 100 wood start. (should british have some starts with just 100 wood?)
Travois dance shouldnt recieve a plain nerf, because that'd make it not feasible for some buildings, and their point is to make buildings cheaper. instead travios dance should change into 3 types - militery building , farm and plantation, with dancing time adjusted, still at an advantage than chopping wood but not as broken and one has to plan ahead before the dance. (make the starting travios a farm travios would actually solve a lot of the problems)
Light cannons range shouldnt change, it has to be able to shoot at culverins other wise 5 culverins own all LC. if a nerf is needed, it is better to reduce infantry damage, making it a culv+mortar, instead of culv+mortar+falc.
[This message has been edited by ultimitsu (edited 04-28-2007 @ 04:45 PM).]
posted 04-28-07 04:03 PM EDT (US)
