This is cool... ill try it out..

I hope it will reignite my passion for the french civ...

This is a bad strat.

First off, know hwo your own strat works. Native treaties gives you your units regardless of when its built, sos hip it asap and you will get some units an then after your new tp is build you will get more, dontr send 3 cdb forward, have explroer get both (unless sonora), if you only get 1 dont get treaties ship in like 8 cbows and you will have a pwning army.

Your on your way to making a good one, but your far from it in being efficient and such.

i sometimes do a variation of this strat but i normally find that people antipicate/defend it really well when they see the native post thingy next to my score. I think i may just be going too late with the attack.

"make exactly 4 CdB, then ship 3 more, leave it at that."

when r u sending the vil card to be able to do this without house? if i can attack a little sooner, and not have to build a house in discovery, that would probably make my rush a little more successful

Edit: nm i guess you just have to send it when you have nine vils, forgot they start with five instead of six

[This message has been edited by TPoW (edited 05-06-2006 @ 11:35 AM).]

I like it. I used to love french, but i'd never rush with them.

How many units does the Native Ally Card ships? Does it variate or its based in the native cost? And when the tribe has more than 1 unit?

Anway, this strat can be kind of predictable, due to the fact you have Native Allies. But I think it can be really effective with some work

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This is incorrect. You get the native reinforcements regardless of when you place the trade post.

Also, I never understood why French were considered good native rushers. They don't get extra wood at the start nor age up super quickly like the best native rushers, the Ottomans. They don't get trade post control like the Spanish with their war dogs.
The mere fact that French have to chop wood to even build trade posts, much less the troops, shows that they aren't any better than the other civs. And certainly alot worse than Spanish and Ottoman.

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I think what he means is ship the native allies while the TP is bieng built so it arrives JUST after you finish the second post. if you send it too early you wont get the troops cause the TP isnt built yet too late and the rush might be prepared for

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They WERE. But then ES nerfed them cause they were OP...

It was sad how the day after i get ATP for my french was the day they nerfed them... :'(

The card is called 'Native American Treaties' (NAT).

France isn't particularly good at Native rushing anymore. Even Portugal can do it better (or at least faster).

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And I'm saying the never were good at Native Rushing. It just became this myth, somehow. Just like at the time people used to think Ottomans were useless for anything but rushing, and that FF was "too risky". People used to say alot of stupid and shortsighted crap in the first couple of months after the game's release.

ES did not do anything to specifically nerf the French native rush. They nerfed native treaties for everyone. Just what, in your opinion, made French such good native rushers before a CdB was taken away from them?

They were faster?

That CDB that got taken away hurt French a lot.

I'm asking what made French with 6 CdBs better than Ottomans with their starting wood and extremely quick age up or Spanish with their trade post control, fast age up and ability to get wood treasure easily?

They had nothing special in regards to natives. That they made good native rushers was a popular but incorrect myth.

Special techs for Natives. I get Natives whenever possible with French, but rushing is only possible with a few native tribes (Seminoles, Maya, Nootka), and with them it's possible for every civ.

But yeah, Ottmans and Spain are better native rushers.

just a player

NAT gives you 600 res worth of troop from each tride. 2 different tribes that is 1200 worth of troops:

6 Seminole bowman
6 nootka clubman
5 cherokee rileman
6 mayan spearman
etc

tribes with 2 different units gets split of the 600 res worth.

but no dog soldiers for lotoka anymore.

for Seminole and cherokee NAT actually got boosted, before it was 4 bowman and 4 rifleman, now it is 6+5

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ok, i stand corrected, i always thought unless you build second TP before NAT arrives you dont get these troops.

[This message has been edited by ultimitsu (edited 05-06-2006 @ 09:02 PM).]

No you dont.

Build 1 tp, shi pcard, then build another, the minute the second is build you get units even if the card has aready come in.

I havenan idea, we test it, loser leaves HG for good? jk

[This message has been edited by Stophon4 (edited 05-06-2006 @ 08:32 PM).]

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The +15% HP & Attack for natives card (FORTRESS).
The +10% HP & Attack for natives (TEAM) card (Colonial).
The +10% HP for Natives, CdB and Skirmishers card (Colonial).

These don't exactly help with a Native rush. Only with usage of natives later on in the game.

Not that I'd ever want to waste a valuable shipment on a "unique" card that boosts native attack by 1 - 2 points and HP by 10-15 points.

[This message has been edited by Ender_Ward (edited 05-06-2006 @ 09:17 PM).]

imo french should ~200 res worh of natives of each alied tribe from these card, like 1/3 of NAT, its effect would be minute in later game and it would help french in native rush in age2 and yet still be within reasonable standard.

Ports are better at native rushing imo. The french are good at native booming with thier good cards. My fav native strat with french is an aztec chocolate coin fi turtle. Garland warriors pwn .

[This message has been edited by Yobbo (edited 05-06-2006 @ 11:51 PM).]

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I wonder why you guys think of this, can you explain it a bit?

port's only advantage is 0.75 more starting vil and saving 100 wood on second house. but french can not build first house in age1 at all, and with 8.75 vil card it definitely gets stronger eco than port in first 7~9 minutes.

spanish's only advantage is 3 vils come in a bit faster and the dog can protect TP. yet its overall eco in early game is not really better and the dog cant protect every TP on maos with 3~4 TPs (bayou, carolina, sagaunay).

one side point, i find tupi blackwood archers are very powerful, at similar price of a longbow, it does 19 dmg with 1.5 ROF AND 2 x bonus on heavy infantry, that is astonishingly high 76 dmg per 3 sec, range is pretty good at 18, possibly the most powerful unit in age2.

I don't consider Portuguese any better than other civs at Native Rushing.

As for Spanish, now that they've been nerfed to 6 starting villagers, they're only abit better than other civs at native rushing, mostly due to easier time gettin wood treasures in discovery and their ability to control trade posts when you have one very powerful native on a map (think Sonora).

See, French saving 100 wood by not building a house in discovery, is already eclipsed by Spanish being able to get one or more wood treasure. And if they don't get wood treasure, they can get other resource/villager treasures and chop wood.

But ofcourse no civ compares with the Ottomans for native rushing. Even if you only start with 400 wood, building an early Trade Post and house leaves you with 50 wood, but shipments will come so much faster than for anyone else (aside from Spain). And you're stil 50 wood ahead. Then you get 400 wood age up, chop 50 wood more and you got two Trade posts.
700 wood shipped in and you can pump natives from two Trade Posts with about 4-5 vills continuing to chop wood.

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Not more powerful than Abus Guns, which do their 40 damage against every unit type (except Cavalry) and ignore ranged resistance. The Blackwood Archers also have much less HP and resistance.

yeah i know ottoman is the best at any rushing, mostly due to the wood etc.

but while spanish can get treasure faster, french can find right treasure faster with scout uncovering maps faster than spanish dog, and scout can also help in beating guardians. and scout's ability of getting herdables is only equalled by evony.

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abus is quite a broken unit but never the less:

250w TP gives 15(?) blackwood.
300w found + 300w house gives 15 abus.
building requirement cost, black wood wins by huge margin.

50w 50f for blackwood
100g 50f for abus
make cost, blackwood wins by OK margin.

against heavy infantry in ranged/hand
blackwood 76dmg/ 32dmg -resistance
abus 40 dmg / 10 dmg -resisatnce
black wood wins by huge margin, especially if forced into melee.

against light infantry
black wood 38 dmg - resisatnce
abus 40 dmg
abus wins with OK margin.

against cavalry in ranged/melee
black wood 34 (all age2 cavalry has 10% resistance)/ 32
abus 20 dmg / 10
black wood wins with huge margin especially in forced into melee, again

taking ranged/hand damage
black wood 89 / 80 hp
abus 260 / 130hp
abus wins with huge/OK margin.

seems like black wood wins in every scenarios except against light infantry, which it still keep up well.

against heavy cavalry it is uncertain because although black wood do has less hp, but it does way more damage, and you wouldnt be just sending them alone without heavy infantry support, on pampas where you also get inca spearman, he has the best anti-cavalry damage in all age2 units except dopp.

[This message has been edited by ultimitsu (edited 05-07-2006 @ 04:26 PM).]

Ottoman native rush>Spanish native rush>French Native Rush

Unless the Spaniard takes tp control with dogs and stops the Otto getting any natives.

Quoted from Stophon4:

After all this time and I had no idea it worked that way!