In this thread, Luke will teach you an important lesson.

Topic Subject: In this thread, Luke will teach you an important lesson.

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Luke
Squire

posted 05-17-03 07:28 AM CT (US)

I will try to give you a little insight on my emotions to simplify the lesson I want to teach to both newcomers and oldies in this community. As follows:

When I started designing, way back, I did so because I wanted to give my imagination a place. My fantasy is fertile, and I've always loved developing my own world. The first tons of crap I turned out were what I said: crap. However, as time progressed, I actually became good at it, and when I started with ATW I felt I had the right to say to myself that I was one of the best designers this forum had ever produced. Arrogant? Likely. Foolish? Perhaps. True? You decide.
In any case, work on ATW progressed steadily, and it actually impressed a lot of designers out there, which fed my ego and acknowledged my arrogant stance. And when I had the demo finished, I thought I knew I had processed an instant 5.0 best-of. A controversial demo in many ways, I was the first to add enough music to make a solid RPG cry - music that supported the various cut-scenes which made up for the story.

Boy, was I proven wrong. I ended up at a 4.6... Place yourself in my shoes, and try to understand the blow I received after reading Tanneur's review (which is, certainly after his later correction, more than fair - this to make sure I won't get German hate-mail sooner or later ). "A 4.6? Did those reviewers suffer from a collective loss of mind? What the HELL? This was worth a 5.0, for crying out loud!" That pretty much describes how I felt, and it's also one of the main reasons why I decided against finishing ATW in the first place. Hey, I'm gonna be honest with you folks:

I started out as an innocent designer who loved what he did, and ended up as an arrogant son-of-a-gun who wanted none but to receive a classic instant 5.0 best-of and the respect and status legendary that accompanies it. I wanted to leave my mark on AoK SD history. I wanted to equal the people at the top of the charts, and beat everyone below me.

Now why did I bold that paragraph? Simple, really... I dare to bet that at least 50% of the designers out there have suffered from the same, and quit designing as a result.
Today's lesson: don't let your ambition work against you. It did with me, and this community has lost a promising talent as the result. Indeed - I grew sick of myself, and of designing with it. I, technically, would still be able to finish ATW - I've got everything on my HDD, ready to be worked with - but it's not gonna happen since I single-handedly destroyed the designing magic which is nescessary to be able to embark on a journey to finish a big project, and leave with your sanity intact.

For those of you who don't know what ATW is, you can find it here here. Take a look for yourself, and make your own judgement.

Peace out, folks.

[This message has been edited by Luke (edited 05-17-2003 @ 04:44 PM).]

Author

Replies:

Danielthemaster
Squire

posted 05-17-03 09:23 AM CT (US) 1 / 57

Good Advice.

Kelar
Squire

posted 05-17-03 09:30 AM CT (US) 2 / 57

Good Post.

No. Bad Jarl. Bad Bad Jarl. NO Penis ASCII.
-Andy.

Mechstra
Banned

posted 05-17-03 09:53 AM CT (US) 3 / 57

Heh. That's more or less what happened to me, except I didn't stop designing, and my project didn't get higher than 3.3.

Kept designing, though.

Adder
Fallen Angel
(id: The Adder)

posted 05-17-03 10:50 AM CT (US) 4 / 57

Nice post Luke!

I think that all the people who come here ought to read it. Some great insight.

Adder |
"I would like to wonder if Adder always acts like a stuck up asshole?" - Coldviper

fede_histpop
Squire

posted 05-17-03 11:26 AM CT (US) 5 / 57

True. True. True.
This post should be read by every designer.

I have to say I plyaed ATW and... I was amazed. I loved it.
(Btw you got 4.84, not 4.6)

Quoted from "Luke":

I, technically, would still be able to finish ATW - I've got everything on my HDD, ready to be worked with - but it's not gonna happen since I single-handedly destroyed the designing magic which is nescessary to be able to embark on a journey to finish a big project, and leave with your sanity intact.

But I don't think you destroyed the designing magic inside you. Maybe you put it apart, but it's still here. You, in my opinion, need only a motivation.
And I'm trying to give you one.

I'm sure you remember the content of the *.bmp you put over the scenario instructions of your teaser. Well, restart working to have it over the scenario instructions of the first scenario of one of the most played campaigns ever.

I think this could be a really noble motivation to go on.
Learn from your beloved aunt: Fight.

.: Fede_histpop 0 A.D. historian, game designer and scenario designer :.
.: working on TLA Map Editor :.
Co-founder and leader of Historiae Populorum

-DGDN member and Admin-

Philip Dunscombe
Squire

posted 05-17-03 01:08 PM CT (US) 6 / 57

Everyone is different and reacts in different manners.

The most pressure comes from your self, instead of fighting with your mind forcing your self to work on something so it will be the best, one might try to think of how it will feel once it is completed.

You have some incite into the creative process don't let the work outgrow the designer.

This has worked for me and Luke, stop avoiding my messages.

[This message has been edited by Philip Dunscombe (edited 05-17-2003 @ 01:09 PM).]

AnastasiaKafka
Squire

posted 05-17-03 01:18 PM CT (US) 7 / 57

*tears*

"I take it that this is the Anastasia Scud pines for?" - Epic Commander
"What Ana said. Use sugar and the whip." - aka the Pilot
"I think you will realize the emphasis was on Ana and Cake." - Monk

Firebird
OD Core Group

posted 05-17-03 02:56 PM CT (US) 8 / 57

yes, good advice...

Help HG get rid of Firebird

Larmir
Squire

posted 05-17-03 05:19 PM CT (US) 9 / 57

Yeah, when the ego gets the best part of you, it's time to reconsider what you are doing and why you are doing it. As we all know, I have the biggest ego in HG, but I don't feel like changing or anything so I just feed it.

Area 42
EE Studio | AoM ZooM Editor
11 Relics Modpack(4.8) | Soccer Scenario(4.2) | SWGB Casino(4.7)
Quand un athl�te fait cent fois l'salaire d'un m�decin Moi j'dis qu'c'est �a l'd�clin d'l'empire am�ricain - Cowboys Fringants
The artist formerly known as Prin...errm...EO

kevo
Squire
(id: kevingamer prime)

posted 05-17-03 06:12 PM CT (US) 10 / 57

True.... so true

�\^/_\_\evo'_____________________________________
��/^/��
"i get more IM's from AOL System Message than from everyone else"-Anonymous

Clayperboy
Squire

posted 05-17-03 08:01 PM CT (US) 11 / 57

Nice ,, thanks for sharing that with us.
My problem tho,, lies on the other side of the coin.

Tanneur99
HG Alumnus

posted 05-17-03 11:23 PM CT (US) 12 / 57

Hi Luke,

Thank you for saying that my review is fair even if you feel disapointed. Like you I was not content with my original one of ATW, it was written under the first impression and I tried to explain that in the edit. I take reviewing very serious and before posting the final version I asked the opinions of Ingo and AngelSpineman and I would like to thank both of them for their advice.

I really do hope that you finish ATW, not primarily to share it whith this wonderful community and to entertain us, but for yourself and the memory of your aunt.

Ralf

Cobra the Mediocre
Squire
(id: The_Cobra_81)

posted 05-17-03 11:44 PM CT (US) 13 / 57

Quoted from Luke:

I wanted to leave my mark on AoK SD history.

You most certainly have. Don't feel too sorry for yourself; you were a cherub, angel, and seraph of AoKH, all under a year's time, and that's better than I can attest to. I might add you're the first of a few AoKH to come out of SD more than anywhere else.

I try to not have too much ambition in the first place, and I myself will try to avoid the same thing.

If ATW comes out in a different medium, let us know. I'm curious as to what happens. I'll not ask you to design again, that's what you've decided, and you've already talked about that decision. You have good judgement, don't let it be compromised by anybody's thoughts.

Cobra the Mediocre
SteadilY working up to Average
If you're not part of the solution, you're part of the precipitate.
(Age of Kings Heaven) (The Renegades)

crasher
Squire

posted 05-18-03 01:07 AM CT (US) 14 / 57

Quoted from Luke:

I started out as an innocent designer who loved what he did, and ended up as an arrogant son-of-a-gun who wanted none but to receive a classic instant 5.0 best-of and the respect and status legendary that accompanies it. I wanted to leave my mark on AoK SD history. I wanted to equal the people at the top of the charts, and beat everyone below me.

Whoa, mind reader Luke. Seriously.

Quoted from Immortal Prey trailer:

This is odd. I have been writing posts on forums and instructions/articles/tutorials for a long time, designing almost every day, and now I am thinking of how to introduce this story. It seems impossible to convey the work that goes into a scenario; countless hours, days, months, even a year, sometimes. Right now, the campaign is roughly half done. I wanted to write this in advance, and see how it turned out. Anyway. Hours, days, months, even a year might go into the making of this. And then when it is submitted, when everybody plays it, I have no idea what they will think. I love it. Chances are that it will be very good, and very downloaded. But people will be afraid to give it that nice five point zero, so they will hunt down some flaw and give it a four point nine. This is the designer's nightmare, so I'm doing my best to not let you down. I don't know who will be around then. If you are reading this, thank you. It seems we have forgotten the time when we first played a game with triggers, or had to insert an ai into a folder. We just played the game for the love of it, just to see what happens next, to see daedalus and helios reach the end. Now, I cannot play a game without thinking how i could have done it better, or how a tiny flaw in the triggers was detrimental to the whole game... I hope you play with an open mind. Remember this when you go to play any RPG: Close the door and turn off the lights, put on some head phones. Forget what you know about designing. Cove up the minimap. Turn off the timer and the stats. And most importantly, have fun... Thank you...."crasher" matt baldon, 5-31-02

"Crasher" Matthew Saville, proud team member of DGDN.net
The New World - A Different World - A Different World Special Edition - Attack At Dawn - A Lost World

AnastasiaKafka
Squire

posted 05-18-03 09:35 AM CT (US) 15 / 57

Quote:

you were a cherub, angel, and seraph of AoKH, all under a year's time, and that's better than I can attest to.

Hi The_Cobra_81:

Indeed Luke's stellar rise in the ranks of AOKH staff was perhaps unprecedented. What many might fail to realize is this often is a death knoll for design inspiration. On the surface these jobs seem glamorous and wrought with prestige. Beneath the superficial aspects though, is a lot of time consuming work that really is a sacrifice and this sacrifice often spells the end of design goals.

I don't think the post was intended to draw sympathy, rather it was to advise members to choose carefully the path to scenario design prominence, or rather not to choose it at all.

Luke:
You can be proud of your accomplishments here in this forum that effected the entire community as a whole. The forum became the most dynamic under your control. You were instrumental in constructing the new 'Golden Age' for review. Your, 4.0 - 4.6 is excellent for a demonstration scenario. My view had the design slightly higher, and maybe that is because I am a designer myself. I cannot help but know the talent and effort required to create the amazing audio in ATW. As far as returning to it...ah well you've placed that in bold red now haven't you.

Thank you for the good times and the inspiration, Cowboy!

[This message has been edited by AnastasiaKafka (edited 05-18-2003 @ 09:38 AM).]

Luke
Squire

posted 05-18-03 11:09 AM CT (US) 16 / 57

@ Anna:

Thanks, girl.

Quote:

I don't think the post was intended to draw sympathy, rather it was to advise members to choose carefully the path to scenario design prominence, or rather not to choose it at all.

Indeed. My post was meant as advice to others.

LoserWithCoolName
Squire
(id: The Kestrel)

posted 05-18-03 12:58 PM CT (US) 17 / 57

I never really cared what people thought about my work, but I went for quality anyway. Sure, if I got a 3.2 I got a little pissed off, but really, it wasn't a big deal. You can't please everybody. Ya win a few, ya lose a few, nothing else to it.

You want fries with that?

Luke
Squire

posted 05-18-03 02:08 PM CT (US) 18 / 57

Aye, but not everybody is as calm and relaxed as you apparently are. I know I'm not.

Adder
Fallen Angel
(id: The Adder)

posted 05-18-03 02:12 PM CT (US) 19 / 57

Yeah I personally think it would be very degrading to think your going to get a 5.0 and the get a 4.0 . It's a huge drop. Even though I'm only aiming for a 4.0 right now

Adder |
"I would like to wonder if Adder always acts like a stuck up asshole?" - Coldviper

kevo
Squire
(id: kevingamer prime)

posted 05-18-03 04:53 PM CT (US) 20 / 57

I'm aiming for anything over a 2

�\^/_\_\evo'_____________________________________
��/^/��
"i get more IM's from AOL System Message than from everyone else"-Anonymous

crasher
Squire

posted 05-18-03 05:52 PM CT (US) 21 / 57

Kevin, reviews of two and under, if you notice, are mostly given to people who do not frequent the SD forum, but instead just rattle off campaign after campaign. Most anybody who has seen screenshots here, played the best-of, etc, and anybody who puts their mind to it, will get a three easily. Now the 5.0, this is hard to attain. And what is even harder is to get it from a respectful person...

"Crasher" Matthew Saville, proud team member of DGDN.net
The New World - A Different World - A Different World Special Edition - Attack At Dawn - A Lost World

Angel Aro
Squire
(id: Cherub Aro)

posted 05-18-03 06:10 PM CT (US) 22 / 57

I got 3.5+ on campaigns I made close to 2 years ago, so I'm proud.

Good advice, Luke.

Angel Aro
Age of Kings Heaven Angel | Empires Heaven Angel
Events:

Phoenix II
Guest

posted 05-18-03 09:41 PM CT (US) 23 / 57

I don't know how it affected your perception of scn design, but-

You used to be an arrogant ****. You're a nice guy now.

Filthydelphia
Squire
(id: Al_Kharn the Great)

posted 05-18-03 09:44 PM CT (US) 24 / 57

well damn... you complained and whined about a 4.8?

LoserWithCoolName
Squire
(id: The Kestrel)

posted 05-18-03 09:53 PM CT (US) 25 / 57

Holy ****, it's Phoenix!

You want fries with that?

Clayperboy
Squire

posted 05-18-03 11:49 PM CT (US) 26 / 57

Anything over a 3 is an achivement, your up there.
Anything over a 4 (except demos from here on) is talent.
Anything over a 4 is gifted.
A five is who we copy from.

zyxomma100
Squire

posted 05-19-03 00:29 AM CT (US) 27 / 57

*walks past thread for 100^th time*
*finally reads it*
Well said.
*sighs*

zyxomma100- Age of Kings Heaven forumer
Proudly thwarting Dark_Aro's evil plans since 2002
"There is nothing more sad than watching a teutonic knight chasing a petard."

Deathmatch
Squire
(id: Darkmaster)

posted 05-19-03 00:45 AM CT (US) 28 / 57

Quote:

*reads thread for 100th time*

Fixed (for me).

I agree that it is certainly put in perspective and well stated.

The cause of me being drawn away from designing has been loss of interest. I still like the game, but I haven't been able to think of something inspiring. If I do get inspired or motivated, I'd design for AoK again, even with AoM and other newer games out, with advanced scenario editors.

-1

Luke
Squire

posted 05-19-03 02:16 AM CT (US) 29 / 57

Quote:

You used to be an arrogant ****. You're a nice guy now.

Haha, so true.

Wok
Squire

posted 05-19-03 04:26 AM CT (US) 30 / 57

Excellent thread Luke. Really hit home, too. If anything, it's tempted me back into designing...

Wok?

Jr_Capablanca
Squire

posted 05-19-03 07:34 AM CT (US) 31 / 57

HI luke.If this can help your ego, I really liked your ATW teaser.
/Capa

http://www.gurka.se/gurk.php/svenska/id14200.php

Surge
Squire
(id: Lt_Surge99)

posted 05-19-03 07:38 AM CT (US) 32 / 57

I've always stopped creating projects because I realised I can never get a fair 5.0 :O

I've even gotten 1.6 and 2.2 for my campaigns

After those rates I haven't released anything in Blacksmith.

Let me tell you Luke, you talked so realistically about yourself

"Especially awe-inspiring is the fact that any single brain is made up of atoms that were forged in the hearts of countless stars billions of years ago... These atoms now form a conglomerate � your brain � that can not only ponder the very stars that gave it birth but can also think about its own ability to think and wonder about its own ability to wonder. With the arrival of humans�the universe has suddenly become conscious of itself. This, truly, is the greatest mystery of all." - Rama

Luke
Squire

posted 05-19-03 09:35 AM CT (US) 33 / 57

Quote:

Let me tell you Luke, you talked so realistically about yourself

*Sips coffee*

How am I supposed to take that?

Philip Dunscombe
Squire

posted 05-19-03 10:46 AM CT (US) 34 / 57

Quote:

You used to be an arrogant ****. You're a nice guy now.

Quote:

Haha, so true.

Matters of opinion :-P.

Jayhawk
Eminence Grise

posted 05-19-03 04:13 PM CT (US) 35 / 57

If you're happy with what you've done and feel you've done the best you could it doesn't really matter how it's rated.

Then again, maybe I'm different. I design for the pure fact that I enjoy designing it. Though I admit getting full marks occasionally makes one feel good.

In case you're wondering what I designed for AoK, the answer is zilch. I do(did) design for Stronghold, though...and there's some CB and AoW stuff.

Angel Jayhawk
Eyrie � Caesar 4 Heaven � Children of the Nile Heaven � Stronghold Heaven � Caesar 3 Heaven � Emperor Heaven � Pharaoh Heaven � Zeus Heaven � My Deviations
Support your local Heaven � My Recommendations � EXCO � HALO
I believe violence will only increase the cycle of violence. � The Dalai Lama

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