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Topic Subject: Age of Empires: The Next Chapter Civ Outlines
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posted 05-28-17 04:17 PM CT (US)   
A few of the civ outlines have already been started, but if anyone wants to provide suggestions or outlines for the others, here is the place to do it!

Civs with outlines:

Commanche

Get +10 of all resources for each destroyed enemy building (This encourages raiding, which was the official Comanche pastime)

Horse Archers fire 10/15/20% faster in 2nd/3rd/4th ages (Comanches, like the Sioux, were badass on the horse)

All units have 2+ attack vs civilian units (Comanches were brutal, even for normally brutal Native American warfare)

Unique Unit: Quahadi (Horse Archer with a large bonus vs buildings. Kinda like a horse siege weapon. The name comes from the last Comanche tribe to remain free on the plains)

Unique Tech: Warrior Culture (All units recieve +1 attack. The Comanches were very warlike, if you haven't gotten the message yet. They were at one time or another at war with almost every tribe on the plains, and any Europeans to venture into their territory)

Raiders - Quahadi receive massive bonus vs villagers

Team Bonus: All units receive +2 damage vs buildings (see above)


Portuguese:



Villagers cost gold instead of food (The Portuguese colonies relied heavily on slave labor for sugar production)

Villagers have -50% less HP, but train 50% faster (Portuguese sugar plantations were brutal on slaves, even by slave plantation standards. One slave died for every ton of Portuguese sugar produced.)

Every villager killed gives 50+ gold (the Portuguese had a heavy reliance on the slave trade. Though they usualy relied on African allied nations to supply slaves, there are no African nations, and this is best for the Portuguese)

Every ship killed gives 100+ gold (Portuguese enforced their naval trade power by stopping trade ships and charging taxes and checking for licenses, slaughtering the crew if they didn't have said licenses)

UUs: Caravel (blazing fast ship with a large line of sight)

Jinete (Fast javelin-armed cavalry which is good against other cavalry.

UTs: Spyglass (All units have +6 line of sight), Cape Good Hope (Towers deal 15+ damage vs ships)

Most of the Portuguese's colonial riches were made off of abusing Indian ocean trade routes, and via the extremely cruel sugar industry. They established relations with African kingdoms to control the slave trade, and conquered Angola and took over Cape Good Hope for the same reasons. The slave trade was very important for the Portuguese, since slaves died faster than they had children, and had to be imported in large quantities.

The Portuguese have many economic bonuses for fighting, but few actual military bonuses besides their longer line of sight, which gives them a slight edge in finding villagers. They must raid early to get their economy going too since they start out with the same resources everyone else does. However, once this is overcome, they can become very strong quickly if they can get at their enemies' economy. They also excel at naval wars, if not for sheer force for their economic strength.

Swedish



All units have 40%+ hitpoints, +4 attack, cost 2 population instead of one (the Swedish in their heyday had the most powerful army in Europe, known for its bravery and discipline. However, Sweden had a tiny population to draw from, and its army was never very big.)

Units become 10% more expensive, train 5% slower every age (Because of Sweden's low population, they could not afford severe losses)

Pikemen deal +3 bonus damage to infantry/whatever class the gunpowder unit line is (the Swedish focused on closing ranks as quick as possible, firing only one or two volleys before descending upon the enemy. As a result, pikes and swords were used in Sweden for a much longer time compared to the rest of Europe)

Town centers give +100 gold when built (the Swedish had a highly efficient bureaucracy, which greatly facilitated the rise of the Swedish state)


UUs: Carolean- a fast swordsman with high pierce armor and area attack (as stated above, the Swedish closed in and initiated close combat early in the battle. If possible, should look a bit like a musketeer)

Hackpell- light cavalry which only costs gold and cost half population (the Swedes used some auxillaries like this, but they weren't too prominent. This is just supposed to be a cheap supplement, so that they have a less pop-heavy choice)


UTs: Shock Tactics- Melee infantry attack 2x as fast (Swedes loved shock tactics, as explained above)

Allotment System- Each villager produced reduces millitary cost (The Swedes had an "allotment system", where small groups of peasants had to pay for a soldier. This allowed the Swedes to arm their soldiers for a fairly cheap price)

Team Bonus: All units attack 10% faster

Houses support 6 population

High conversion resistance


The Swedish were very religious, and pastors were the main source of both moral support and discipline on campaign- they were taught to be brave, since if God wanted them to die they wouldn't be able to do anything to stop it, so some religious Techs are still required.


Canada



New World Architecture - All building cost stone is reduced by 50% but 25% increased in lumber

Woodsman- Receive lumber camp upgades for free

Indian friendship - Canadian native warriors are 20% cheaper and train 10% faster

UU
Trapper-fast infantry unit with great LoS and speed, but low HP (trash UU)

UT
Coureur - Villagers recevie great boosts in attack and HP

Fur Trade - Canadian market rates are unchanged

TB
All infantry units receive +3LoS

Polish



Bonuses

All university techs are 50% cheaper (University of Krakow is one of the oldest in the world, established in 1364)

Polish farms last 10% longer and are 15% cheaper (poland had strong agriculture economy in the middle ages)

Polish units are 75% harder to convert (polish people gained religious freedom)

UU
Winged Hussar- Anti gunpowder cavalry

UT

Copernicus - All techs are researched 100% faster

Golden Liberty - All units receive 10% HP

TB
Villager gather from berries and fish 10% faster


British



Bonuses

Britons have a very small trickle of all resources (representing colonial wealth)

British ships have 15% HP and +2 Armor (naval empire)

British villagers build 60% faster (quick buidling of colonies,...)

UU
Redcoat - a powerful musketeer with a bonus vs other musketeers units

Ocean Class - tough ship with huge health and attack but very slow with decent range

UT

Piracy -British Ship gold cost becomes wood.

Trade Company - Britsh trade carts, trade cogs and other means of trade move 100% faster

Team Bonus
Gunpowder Infantry move 10% faster and has +1 attack

The 13 Colonies



Bonuses:
Reduced price and training time of all gunpowder units by 35%, but lowering HP for 10% (The minuteman)

Houses have tiny ranged gunpowder attack

Farmers and Plantation workers work 25% faster

UU:
Colonial Militia - Cheap and fast produced weak infantry with minor bonus vs native units

UB
Plantation - Farm that produces gold

UT
"Smugglers (trade units have +4 armor/+4 pierce armor)

Landgrab - Mills, farms and houses are built 100% faster, are cheaper and receive massive HP bonus (Attack bonus for house too)


TB
Technologies research 15% faster

Iroquois



Bonuses:
Villagers/fishing ships/etc gather from all "natural" resources (fish, berries, boars,...) 25% faster
All Iroquois buildings are built from wood only, but have 15% higher price
Iroquois villagers and native units have 15% higher health
Iroquois build longhouses instead of houses. They can be garissoned (3 units) and provide 10pop. However they cost 55% more than a house

UU
Mantlet - Anti building and anti infantry siege unit

*shared special barracks line with other forest natives*

UT
Kinship - Native units have increased HP and attack (20%) as well as attack and movement speed (10%) (Close bonds of the 5 tribes and the oral knowledge passed on)
War allies - Iroquois barracks receive 2 special units, gunpowder infantry (Alliances with French/English/Americans


Team Bonus
Villagers are 5% cheaper

Dutch



Building Health Upgrades give +20% more HP (The Dutch had their own style of architecture.)

Ships move 10% faster +10% HP but transport ships +10 Garrison (Dutch navy used to carry heavy loads. The fluyt was a dutch built ship.)

Markets give 50+ Gold when built (Dutch marketing has lot of investments in gold.)

Unique Unit: Halberider. Strong Pikeman good against other infantry

Fluyt - moderately fast and powerful military ship that is able to garrison soldiers

Unique Techs: Windmills (Farms stay better for longer and produce food faster)

Bank - When researched, markets begin to produce a slow trickle of gold

Team Bonus: Tradecarts/Tradecogs 33% faster (Dutch traded over seas with fluyts and transports)


Germans



Infantry and Siege civ


Bonuses:
Villagers produced twice as fast, but gather 20% slower from natural resources (30 years war, destroyed lands, but quick repopulation)

Cannons fire 25% faster and have +10% HP

Town Centers have double HP

UU

Landknecht - slow and powerful anti infantry swordsman

Uhlan - Fast and weak lancer with bonus vs siege and infantry

UT

Imperial Reforms: All military is produced 20% faster and all gold income sources increased by 10%

Protestantism: German monk receive +1/+1 armor and all units are 50% more resistant to conversions

Team Bonus: Infantry has 20% HP


French



Villagers gather 30% faster, but also get 30% less resources

Cavalry +1/+2 armor per age starting in 2nd age, but cost raised by 5% per age

Ships are created 25% faster but have less hitpoints (trying to compete with British in numbers, but fail)


Town centres and houses built 10% faster

UU

Cuirassier - Expensive and slow armoured cavalry with area attack and high health

UT

French Revolution - Villagers get great boost in speed, health and attack, but lose some gathering effeciency, thus becoming efficient militia units

Napoleonic reforms - Cavalry gains +10% movement speed and cannons are produced 100% faster

Team Bonus
Transport ships (or whatever there shall be to replace it) carry +10 units

Russians



Bonuses
10% villager discount per age, starting in first age (total of 50%)

Military produced 30% faster, but it is weaker.

Technologies take 10% longer to research, but are 40% cheaper

Start with 4 extra villagers

UU
Strelet - Cheap, quickly produced and weak infantry with a minor bonus vs infantry

UT

Cossack Agreement - Russians receive Cossacks in their stables. A quick and reliable cavalry with a bonus vs villagers and gunpowder units

Peter The Great's reforms - Strelets and other infantry receive boost in health and attack, but take longer to create and have slightly higher cost

Team Bonus
Villagers receive +2 attack bonus vs infantry

Lakota



Villagers gather from wild animals and herdables 100% faster

Melee cavalry moves 10% faster and has 10% HP increase per age (starting in second)

Houses are 60% cheaper, but provide 3 pop only

UU
Rifle Cavalry - Quick cavalry with decent attack and health and a bonus vs ranged cavalry

UT
Red Clouds War - Lakota cavalry receive nice bonus damage vs gunpowder infantry and siege

Black Hills - Lakota Cavalry cost no gold

Team Bonus
Cavalry trains 20% faste

Civs without Outlines


Cherokee
Cree

- Creator of Age of Empires 2: The Next Chapter, a total conversion mod. http://aok.heavengames.com/cgi-bin/forums/display.cgi?action=st&fn=9&tn=44365&f=9,44365,0,30

Progress: 37% Complete.

[This message has been edited by Cactiguy (edited 08-27-2017 @ 06:59 AM).]

Replies:
posted 05-28-17 04:49 PM CT (US)     1 / 61  
Polish

Bonuses

All university techs are 50% cheaper (University of Krakow is one of the oldest in the world, established in 1364)

Polish farms last 10% longer and are 15% cheaper (poland had strong agriculture economy in the middle ages)

Polish units are 75% harder to convert (polish people gained religious freedom)

UU
Winged Hussar- Anti gunpowder cavalry

UT

Copernicus - All techs are researched 100% faster

Golden Liberty - All units receive 10% HP

TB
Villager gather from berries and fish 10% faster

Co-creator and leader of Monsoon Studios

You are kneeling with your tongue out? What exactly do you think is going to happen here? - Matt

A drush is not a knockout punch; it is the first punch in a combo - Barbarossa
posted 05-28-17 06:16 PM CT (US)     2 / 61  
This sounds good. I'm not sure if Copernicus or the strong Polish agricultural economy should be referenced (the latter is kinda out of the time period I think), although I'm all for the University bonus- the Polish Commonwealth in its heyday had significant cultural influence. Does Golden Liberty stand for the Polish noble's republic?

Since Polish hussars were used as powerful shock troops, how about having them have a strong area attack instead? Or, even cooler, it could have a special attack where it did large amounts of damage when it "charges", like a heavy cavalry unit from the Realms mod.

Also, cossacks played an important part in both Russian and Polish history. Do you think cossacks should be a shared unit between them?

[This message has been edited by Dr Roach (edited 05-28-2017 @ 06:41 PM).]

posted 05-28-17 07:21 PM CT (US)     3 / 61  
Questions:

how does the UUs work? Are they additional units or replacing common units?

Where are they trained in? Barrack/Stable or in a Castle-like building?

In which age will the UU become available? Do they all become available in Age3 or have different available age depend on what unit is it?

AoK Unit Graphics:
Landsknechts (Doppelsöldner) - 5 variations

RoN Unit Graphics:
Landsknechts

[This message has been edited by Ivenend (edited 05-28-2017 @ 07:22 PM).]

posted 05-28-17 08:42 PM CT (US)     4 / 61  
how does the UUs work? Are they additional units or replacing common units?
Yes and no. For example the British UU is a very strong rifleman, and so the british are not able to train the 3rd unit in the rifleman line, and have the UU instead, but can still train the 1st and 2nd.
Where are they trained in? Barrack/Stable or in a Castle-like building?
Most likely both. Infantry UU's in the barracks, cavalry in the stable, and the UU will also be trained in the fort (castle) along with say 2 or 3 other common units (similar to the fort in AOE3)
In which age will the UU become available? Do they all become available in Age3 or have different available age depend on what unit is it?
They will be different ages depending on the Unit.

- Creator of Age of Empires 2: The Next Chapter, a total conversion mod. http://aok.heavengames.com/cgi-bin/forums/display.cgi?action=st&fn=9&tn=44365&f=9,44365,0,30

Progress: 37% Complete.
posted 05-28-17 10:09 PM CT (US)     5 / 61  
I think I should note which age the units are available:

Quahadi: available in the 3rd age/whenever other civs receive artillery

Carolean: 2nd or 3rd age.

Caraval: first age

Jinete: 2nd age/whenever ranged cavalry are available for other nations
posted 06-01-17 03:58 PM CT (US)     6 / 61  
It's Brits time!

Bonuses

Britons have a very small trickle of all resources (representing colonial wealth)

British ships have 15% HP and +2 Armor (naval empire)

British villagers build 60% faster (quick buidling of colonies,...)

UU
Redcoat - a powerful musketeer with a bonus vs other musketeers units

Ocean Class - tough ship with huge health and attack but very slow with decent range

UT

Piracy -British receive gold for every enemy ship destroyed

Trade Company - Britsh trade carts, trade cogs and other means of trade move 100% faster

Team Bonus
Gunpowder Infantry move 10% faster and has +1 attack

Co-creator and leader of Monsoon Studios

You are kneeling with your tongue out? What exactly do you think is going to happen here? - Matt

A drush is not a knockout punch; it is the first punch in a combo - Barbarossa
posted 06-11-17 04:15 PM CT (US)     7 / 61  
The 13 Colonies

Bonuses:
Reduced price and training time of all gunpowder units by 35%, but lowering HP for 10% (The minuteman)

Houses have tiny ranged gunpowder attack

Farmers and Plantation workers work 25% faster

UU:
Colonial Militia - Cheap and fast produced weak infantry with minor bonus vs native units

UB
Plantation - Farm that produces gold

UT
Slavery - Plantation cost changed from wood to tiny gold amount, the plantations are permanent (still could be destroyed) and the income is increased

Landgrab - Mills, farms and houses are built 100% faster, are cheaper and receive massive HP bonus (Attack bonus for house too)


TB
Reduced unit gold cost by 10%

Co-creator and leader of Monsoon Studios

You are kneeling with your tongue out? What exactly do you think is going to happen here? - Matt

A drush is not a knockout punch; it is the first punch in a combo - Barbarossa

[This message has been edited by Great_Artiste (edited 06-12-2017 @ 09:55 AM).]

posted 06-12-17 00:25 AM CT (US)     8 / 61  
All units have 40%+ hitpoints, +4 attack, cost 2 population instead of one (the Swedish in their heyday had the most powerful army in Europe, known for its bravery and discipline. However, Sweden had a tiny population to draw from, and its army was never very big.)
You should also make the town centers and houses support 6 population, perhaps making their houses cost 36 wood to make up for the bonus. Having to sometimes make a new house after only training 2 units would be annoying. Making houses and town centers support an even number would work better. Or you could make them support 10 pop instead of 6.

Also, this bonus, even with the small cost and training time increases, will likely make the Swedish quite powerful early on because making units cost 2 pop is really only a negative thing when you're approaching your pop limit. I'd increase the current costs or training time that you currently have set for Swedish units.

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posted 06-12-17 10:01 AM CT (US)     9 / 61  
The "original Swedish civ outline by Dr Roach:
And now for a Swedish civ outline:

All units have 40%+ hitpoints, +4 attack, cost 2 population instead of one (the Swedish in their heyday had the most powerful army in Europe, known for its bravery and discipline. However, Sweden had a tiny population to draw from, and its army was never very big.)

Units become 10% more expensive, train 5% slower every age (Because of Sweden's low population, they could not afford severe losses)

Pikemen deal +3 bonus damage to infantry/whatever class the gunpowder unit line is (the Swedish focused on closing ranks as quick as possible, firing only one or two volleys before descending upon the enemy. As a result, pikes and swords were used in Sweden for a much longer time compared to the rest of Europe)

Town centers give +100 gold when built (the Swedish had a highly efficient bureaucracy, which greatly facilitated the rise of the Swedish state)


UUs: Carolean- a fast swordsman with high pierce armor and area attack (as stated above, the Swedish closed in and initiated close combat early in the battle. If possible, should look a bit like a musketeer)

Vlach Auxillary- light cavalry which only costs gold and cost half population (the Swedes used some auxillaries like this, but they weren't too prominent. This is just supposed to be a cheap supplement, so that they have a less pop-heavy choice)


UTs: Shock Tactics- Melee infantry attack 2x as fast (Swedes loved shock tactics, as explained above)

Allotment System- Villagers support 4 population, and your population limit increases by 50 (The Swedes had an "allotment system", where small groups of peasants had to pay for a soldier. This allowed the Swedes to arm their soldiers for a fairly cheap price)

Team Bonus: All units attack 10% faster


The Swedish were very religious, and pastors were the main source of both moral support and discipline on campaign- they were taught to be brave, since if God wanted them to die they wouldn't be able to do anything to stop it. However, I'm not sure how monks and religion will be represented if at all, so I'll hold off for now. Also, if anyone who has knowledge of Swedish history could you propose another team bonus?

And my response:
Vlach Auxillary- light cavalry which only costs gold and cost half population (the Swedes used some auxillaries like this, but they weren't too prominent. This is just supposed to be a cheap supplement, so that they have a less pop-heavy choice
Or maybe Hackpell cavalry. They were the royal guard of Gustavus Adolphus and brought havoc to central Europe.

UTs: Shock Tactics- Melee infantry attack 2x as fast (Swedes loved shock tactics, as explained above)

Allotment System- Villagers support 4 population, and your population limit increases by 50 (The Swedes had an "allotment system", where small groups of peasants had to pay for a soldier. This allowed the Swedes to arm their soldiers for a fairly cheap price)



Team Bonus: All units attack 10% faster
As for the bonuses, I do like the faster infantry attack, but dislike the villager one. Maybe reducing the cost of military for every villager present. And if a villager dies the price goes back up a little. Massive villagers => cheap army

I would also change team bonus to faster monk faith regeneration and conversion rate to implement their impact on the 30 years war and the spreading of religion.

So instead of increasing pop cost or the pop houses provide, maybe increasing house cost or make a limit to house production?

As for the team bonus; Strong faith in a current religion <=> great conversion resistance?

And also the town centre bonus is rather weak, with, afaik, players build only 3 to 5 TC per match => total of "just" 500gold

Co-creator and leader of Monsoon Studios

You are kneeling with your tongue out? What exactly do you think is going to happen here? - Matt

A drush is not a knockout punch; it is the first punch in a combo - Barbarossa

[This message has been edited by Great_Artiste (edited 06-12-2017 @ 03:23 PM).]

posted 06-12-17 03:44 PM CT (US)     10 / 61  
Another doublepost from me, this time Iroquois

Bonuses:
Villagers/fishing ships/etc gather from all "natural" resources (fish, berries, boars,...) 25% faster
All Iroquois buildings are built from wood only, but have 15% higher price
Iroquois villagers and native units have 15% higher health
Iroquois build longhouses instead of houses. They can be garissoned (3 units) and provide 10pop. However they cost 55% more than a house

UU
Mantlet - Anti building and anti infantry siege unit

*shared special barracks line with other forest natives*

UT
Kinship - Native units have increased HP and attack (20%) as well as attack and movement speed (10%) (Close bonds of the 5 tribes and the oral knowledge passed on)
War allies - Iroquois barracks receive 2 special units, gunpowder infantry (Alliances with French/English/Americans


Team Bonus
Villagers are 5% cheaper

Co-creator and leader of Monsoon Studios

You are kneeling with your tongue out? What exactly do you think is going to happen here? - Matt

A drush is not a knockout punch; it is the first punch in a combo - Barbarossa

[This message has been edited by Great_Artiste (edited 06-12-2017 @ 03:45 PM).]

posted 06-14-17 01:31 AM CT (US)     11 / 61  
As for the bonuses, I do like the faster infantry attack, but dislike the villager one. Maybe reducing the cost of military for every villager present. And if a villager dies the price goes back up a little. Massive villagers => cheap army
I didn't suggest that because I can imagine that that would be very difficult to do with AGE limitations. On the other hand, making villagers support population is easy. Also, making the Swedish soldiers cheap would kinda defeat the purpose/theme (Stronger, but more expensive and a lot fewer).
So instead of increasing pop cost or the pop houses provide, maybe increasing house cost or make a limit to house production?
I think that increasing house cost would be either be too little to really restrict army size, or too much and really stifle early growth. Making a limit to houses is a bit more complicated than simply doubling the population on everything and achieves the same affect. Also, if everything costs two population that practically means you have half the population limit. I agree with Leif on making the houses hold 6 population- 2 soldiers per house is kinda lame.
*Great Artiste's 13 colonies suggestion*
This is pretty good, though I maybe would leave any unique slavery bonuses to the Portuguese, especially the plantation- they relied MUCH more on slavery than the Americans ever did. Not to minimize the African slave trade, but until about the Revolution a significant (though albeit smaller) portion of unpaid labor done on Southern plantations was done by white indentured servants- George Washington himself issued a reward for two white runaway indentured servants.

Or, we could have certain slavery-related bonuses be shared amongst certain civilizations (America, Portugal, and Spain (sort of) immediately come to mind).

Since after the Revolution, the ideas of the American Revolution spread like wildfire, especially to its poor ally France, might I suggest their team bonus be "Technologies research 15% faster"? Or, villagers could have 10+ hitpoints and +2 attack, to represent the effect of revolutionary ideas.

As a suggestion to replace the unique Slavery tech, maybe instead it could be "Smugglers (trade units have +4 armor/+4 pierce armor)", since smuggling of tea and other goods against the wishes of the British government-run corporations was pretty prominent.
posted 06-14-17 01:44 AM CT (US)     12 / 61  
Spain, Portugal and 13Colonies could all share plantation and have different bonuses boosting it

Team Bonus could be 10% villager train time to represent the speed of migration in America?

Co-creator and leader of Monsoon Studios

You are kneeling with your tongue out? What exactly do you think is going to happen here? - Matt

A drush is not a knockout punch; it is the first punch in a combo - Barbarossa
posted 06-14-17 06:14 AM CT (US)     13 / 61  
Hey! I am Brazilian, and I am kind of offended that my ancestors got the title of "vicious slave owners" in this mod!

Nah, just kidding, my country somewhat sucks anyway. But I am thinking: Tactically speaking, would it really be such a good idea to have both villagers costing gold instead of food AND having then be more frail? I mean, in AoE3, the Dutch villagers costing gold instead of food is usually considered as kind of a disadvantage in early game as it means they have to start collecting gold since very early on, thus making their early economy a bit harder to micro-manage( Even if their amazing gold economy more then made up for it later on: If anything, after they start building Banks, it becomes a advantage ). Making villagers more frail would make the Portuguese economy even tougher to deal with early on.

I would have went with something more like "Villagers are 30% cheaper, but gather resources 10% more slowly", which would also make sense: Slaves were good primarially as cheap, unespecialized manual workers: But between their horrible treatment, the fact they rarely had specialized training, and the fact they just generally didnt actually wanted to be there, a slave would rarely be as productive as a paid worker. On top of that, it would give Portugal a powerfull economy early on but make it decay over time, as though they could get their villagers out faster, on late game, they would need more villagers to keep the same overflow of resources. Also, early on in the colonial days, Portugal was a economical power going hand-in-hand with Britain and Spain, but the fact it didnt industrialized properly made it go weaker with time, down to the point where it is today one of the poorest countries in Europe.

Also, since you are making something for the 13 colonies and Canada, would you be willing to make something for Brazil as well? If you dont want to make a entire nation representing Brazil, you could add a farming/Plantation-related bonus to Portugal. Through much of its history, Brazil was-And still is-A farming power.
posted 06-14-17 06:58 AM CT (US)     14 / 61  
draco you are very right! the true calling would be not vicious but 'prolific slave owners'
posted 06-14-17 09:24 AM CT (US)     15 / 61  
As said, all three civs should have bonuses that improve their plantation in a way

ex.
13Colonies - faster gathering
Portugal - lower cost (slaves)
Spain - Bigger gold supply before rebuilding

Co-creator and leader of Monsoon Studios

You are kneeling with your tongue out? What exactly do you think is going to happen here? - Matt

A drush is not a knockout punch; it is the first punch in a combo - Barbarossa
posted 06-14-17 01:42 PM CT (US)     16 / 61  
Hey! I am Brazilian, and I am kind of offended that my ancestors got the title of "vicious slave owners" in this mod!

Nah, just kidding, my country somewhat sucks anyway. But I am thinking: Tactically speaking, would it really be such a good idea to have both villagers costing gold instead of food AND having then be more frail? I mean, in AoE3, the Dutch villagers costing gold instead of food is usually considered as kind of a disadvantage in early game as it means they have to start collecting gold since very early on, thus making their early economy a bit harder to micro-manage( Even if their amazing gold economy more then made up for it later on: If anything, after they start building Banks, it becomes a advantage ). Making villagers more frail would make the Portuguese economy even tougher to deal with early on.

I would have went with something more like "Villagers are 30% cheaper, but gather resources 10% more slowly", which would also make sense: Slaves were good primarially as cheap, unespecialized manual workers: But between their horrible treatment, the fact they rarely had specialized training, and the fact they just generally didnt actually wanted to be there, a slave would rarely be as productive as a paid worker. On top of that, it would give Portugal a powerfull economy early on but make it decay over time, as though they could get their villagers out faster, on late game, they would need more villagers to keep the same overflow of resources. Also, early on in the colonial days, Portugal was a economical power going hand-in-hand with Britain and Spain, but the fact it didnt industrialized properly made it go weaker with time, down to the point where it is today one of the poorest countries in Europe.
Well, I would think that they wouldn't have access to a lot of economic techs (besides farming ones). And to follow up, the sugar plantations had an absurdly high turnover rate- the profit margin was pretty small, and one wrong business move could result in total failure of the plantation.
Also, since you are making something for the 13 colonies and Canada, would you be willing to make something for Brazil as well? If you dont want to make a entire nation representing Brazil, you could add a farming/Plantation-related bonus to Portugal. Through much of its history, Brazil was-And still is-A farming power.
The reason why the 13 Colonies and Canada get their own civilizations is because the British and French in America are a lot different from the British and French in Europe. One reason Cactiguy disliked Age of Empires 3 was because it focused too much on the Americas. The reason why he couldn't add a civilization for Brazil (and the Spanish colonies) is because Age of Empires HD has a civilization limit (18). We'd have to replace one of the civilizations. If anything, I'd replace the Maya civilization with Incas or a Spanish colony civ. Also, Brazilian history is pretty cool, but it only really starts to become interesting after about 1800, which is about where this mod's scope ends
Team Bonus could be 10% villager train time to represent the speed of migration in America?
But if your villagers are going away, shouldn't that be a malus? XD
posted 06-14-17 01:56 PM CT (US)     17 / 61  
But if your villagers are going away, shouldn't that be a malus? XD
And if Town Centre represents Long Island (Isn't this the island where immigrants had to sign up to enter USA?).

Co-creator and leader of Monsoon Studios

You are kneeling with your tongue out? What exactly do you think is going to happen here? - Matt

A drush is not a knockout punch; it is the first punch in a combo - Barbarossa
posted 06-16-17 09:30 AM CT (US)     18 / 61  
Before anything, greetings to everybody!
Second, congratulations to the team working in this MOD!

Now my 2 cents about the civ selection:

- Idont see reason to have Poland as a civ in a MOD about American colonization, specially when the others civ make the MOD an almost just "North American" themed. You can take the Poland slot for some south american colony-country or native people civ.

- Actually Mayans have more right to stay on game that Aztecs, the last mayan kingdom fell in 1697, and yucatec mayans revealed many times even as recent as 1905 (and a big one againts Mexican goberment in 1847).
Also there is not reason to dont give Aztec or Mayans, iron weapons, guns and horses, because even since Cortez time (especially Tlaxcaltecs)they implemented european technologies.

For me the proper way to represent central-south america is:
- Replacing Aztecs with New Spain-Mexico, giving this civ UU based in their early native allies like Tlaxcaltec and Purepechas (this allies accompained the spaniards in their conquest in all central america, southwest USA, and even Phillipines). This way you have a Mexican civ to make Texan and Mex-USA war campaing, since your game time range end at 1850.

- Replace Poland with Brazil.
- Replace Mayans with some of these New Granada-Colombia, Peru or La Plata-Argentina.

What do you think?

[This message has been edited by BuchiTaton (edited 06-16-2017 @ 09:36 AM).]

posted 06-16-17 09:43 AM CT (US)     19 / 61  
Idont see reason to have Poland as a civ in a MOD about American colonization, specially when the others civ make the MOD an almost just "North American" themed. You can take the Poland slot for some south american colony-country or native people civ.
Afaik it is the exact opposite: This mod is set in an age period of AoE3 but implements more of Europe

Co-creator and leader of Monsoon Studios

You are kneeling with your tongue out? What exactly do you think is going to happen here? - Matt

A drush is not a knockout punch; it is the first punch in a combo - Barbarossa

[This message has been edited by Great_Artiste (edited 06-16-2017 @ 09:43 AM).]

posted 06-16-17 03:40 PM CT (US)     20 / 61  
Ok, Europe, so why Poland? Why not Denmark that actually had some small caribean colonies and Greenland?

Also some of the Polish bonus are more apropiate for British:

-"All university techs are 50% cheaper (University of Krakow is one of the oldest in the world, established in 1364)"
University of Oxford is from 1096 and have more impact.

-"Polish units are 75% harder to convert (polish people gained religious freedom)"
Anglican church.

- "Copernicus - All techs are researched 100% faster"
Isaac Newton,Charles Darwin, James Watt and the Industrial Revolution.

I mean this kind of things is what everybody associate with British, even French, Germans or Italians. Im not saying Polish didnt have some merit, but bonus are supposed to be given to the civs that stand out in some area.

[This message has been edited by BuchiTaton (edited 06-16-2017 @ 04:14 PM).]

posted 06-16-17 03:54 PM CT (US)     21 / 61  
Ok, Europe, so why Poland? Why not Denmark that actually had some small caribean colonies and Greenland?
I'm afraid I am not the right person to anwser this. Cactiguy??
Also some of the Polish bonus are more apropiate for British [...]stand out in some area.
Looking at it that way, there is no chance to give a civ unique bonuses/techs. Copernicus, Galileus, Newton, Franklin... It's all the same. But that isn't the purpose. Copernicus was important (so was Newton, yes) and had impact on Poland in that time.
Religious freedom they gained was important due to the wars between Catholics and Protestanism.

Many civs here share stuff (probably due to the connection Europe/World began making in those times) and sometimes you have to compromise


And afterall this are just general outlines and Cactiguy may change a lot when completing his mod in the end

@Cactiguy
Could you add the other "done" civs to the opening message and clean the to-do-list of the done ones

Co-creator and leader of Monsoon Studios

You are kneeling with your tongue out? What exactly do you think is going to happen here? - Matt

A drush is not a knockout punch; it is the first punch in a combo - Barbarossa

[This message has been edited by Great_Artiste (edited 06-16-2017 @ 03:56 PM).]

posted 06-16-17 05:15 PM CT (US)     22 / 61  
This is how I see some of the civs in your list:

>> British (Navy and Technogical, stronger with every age up)
- Privateers and the Royal Navy, strong navy at all ages.
- Since the time range of your MOD is from 1492 to 1850, this correspond with the rise of Bristish Empire, ending at the early Victorian era with Britain as the kings of the sea with colonies all around the world, industrial and technological leaders, and after overcome many times both rivals, Spain and France.
- The Oxford University, Isaac Newton, Charles Darwin, John Dalton, Francis Bacon, Michael Faraday, James Watt, etc.
So the idea is the more you advance in ages with Bristish civ, the more powerfull it becomes, and dont mess with their navy.

>> Americans/13 Colonies (Production and late game growth)
- At the time of the foundation of Jamestown the spaniards had 100 years of adventage in the colonization of America, less that 2 centuries latter the 13 Colonies became the firts Independent colonial nation, free of the British rules they expanded from side to side of the continent, after defead Native peoples and Mexicans, and with the big influx of european colonist.
- So my idea is to make American villagers/coloniest cheaper and faster to make, and this bonus should become higger the more you advance in ages. Also some little base production bonus to all resourses, to represent the higger production by the "owner of their land".
- The American Revolution can be represented giving some bonus like if you loss one building you get back 50% of their cost back.

>> Spaniards (Early power, rush and religious civ)
- Spain was the firts power in the race for the New World, so they need some Unique Units and Bonus to take adventage of early ages (Conquistadores is the obvious option).
- "With the Cross and the Sword!!!" the spaniards had the mission to convert to the Roman Catholic Church the natives of America, the syncretism with native religious and the "Mestizaje" of the European-Native-African blood, the "Sistema de Castas" and the alliance with many native peoples gives the Spanish Empire the adventage in the assimilation and use of the native manpower (both in the production and the millitary), so Spanish civ need not only powerfull missionaries but also native UU.
- As weak side, Spaniards should have weak latter game caracteristics.

[This message has been edited by BuchiTaton (edited 06-16-2017 @ 05:32 PM).]

posted 06-16-17 05:17 PM CT (US)     23 / 61  
Could you add the other "done" civs to the opening message and clean the to-do-list of the done ones
Just did
Ok, Europe, so why Poland? Why not Denmark that actually had some small caribean colonies and Greenland?
For that exact reason. Neither Greenland or the Carribean are in Europe. There are also not really any other places in this mod where the Caribbean or Greenland are represented, so to only have one civ representing those areas wouldn't really make sense. Also, both Poland and Denmark could work for this mod, but with Poland you can have the conflicts it had with Russia and Sweden, as well as the fact that it was quite an important country in the time of the mod.

- Creator of Age of Empires 2: The Next Chapter, a total conversion mod. http://aok.heavengames.com/cgi-bin/forums/display.cgi?action=st&fn=9&tn=44365&f=9,44365,0,30

Progress: 37% Complete.
posted 06-16-17 05:45 PM CT (US)     24 / 61  
So, if this is not one "Colonization of America" MOD, Aztecs and Mayans have even less reason to be (specially Aztecs). Better to have Ottomans, Austria or some Italian representative, I mean european wars make no sence without Otto and Austria.
posted 06-16-17 06:29 PM CT (US)     25 / 61  
Though I cannot say much more specific, I CAN imagine the Spanish as a bit of a rush civilization with a focus on cavalry and gunpowder units, because... Well, though they were hardly the only civilization to have it, their biggest advantage against the Aztecs was preciselly that. Cavalry and gunpowder.

The Aztecs could start with more resources then most civilizations, to reveal how, by the time the Spanish got there, they were a very prosperous nation, with a technology that in some aspects( Particularly architecture ) could be compared with the Romans on their apex. Actually, with their architecture being by far the most developed of all Native American civilizations( Well, allright, technically you could argue the Mayans about tied with then, before they went nomad for currently unknown reasons ), they should have at least one bonus related to their buildings. I also think they might have a bonus along the lines of "When one of your units kill a enemy military unit in combat, you gain resources equal to X%( I will let you decide on the porcentage ) of its value". Aztec warfare revolved less around-Killing-Your enemy per say and more about capturing it to later sacrifice it: This is one of those things that would be close to impossible to properly portray in-game mechanics, but giving you free resources per each enemy unit killed might be your best bet.

You do plan on implementing then, right? They WERE mentioned in your other thread...

[This message has been edited by Draco_Wolfgand (edited 06-16-2017 @ 08:52 PM).]

posted 06-16-17 06:41 PM CT (US)     26 / 61  
I suppose MOD devs gonna implemented anyway (they are in the list). But I hope they give Aztecs and Mayans some gun and horse units (alt least for the last 2 ages).

I mean if they take the "what if Cortez failed" route, is obvious mesoamerican civs should have incorpored european techs to keep independend until late game age. (They need to avoid this ridiculous 15th century mesoamerican army vs gatling guns we have at latter game in AoE3 :/).
posted 06-16-17 07:09 PM CT (US)     27 / 61  
The Aztecs and Mayans are in here as they are already in the game, and so that will make a little less work for me as I am the only developer. All that they require is a bit of tweaking as Draco_Wolfgand mentioned.
But I hope they give Aztecs and Mayans some gun and horse units
There is a native rifleman which is available in the last age, and I may consider giving the Aztecs and Mayans the Native Cavalry in the last age, though they do do fine without them in the base game.
You do plan on implementing then, right? They WERE mentioned in your other thread...
Yup, everything in the main thread is either already implemented or going to be implemented.

- Creator of Age of Empires 2: The Next Chapter, a total conversion mod. http://aok.heavengames.com/cgi-bin/forums/display.cgi?action=st&fn=9&tn=44365&f=9,44365,0,30

Progress: 37% Complete.
posted 06-16-17 07:45 PM CT (US)     28 / 61  
Suggestion for Iroquois:

For the Iroquois, like most Native American tribes, warfare was a matter of extermination- usually the opposing tribe was totally and utterly annihilated. However, the Iroquois were particularly well known for absorbing many surviving members of conquered tribes. Therefore, I suggest the Kinship tech should give a small amount of resources for each unit killed (maybe 25 of each) OR increase their population limit by 1 for each enemy unit killed. It could also be renamed "Assimilation".

I am against its current bonuses because all the Iroquois get is native units- that is their entire army. It seems like it could be a little OP. Imagine a civ with that bonus all across the board, without any direct drawbacks. That would be quite OP.

Also, should the Canadians have access to the entire range of Native American auxillaries?
posted 06-16-17 07:57 PM CT (US)     29 / 61  
@Dr Roach

All good points, I especially like your idea for the Canadians

- Creator of Age of Empires 2: The Next Chapter, a total conversion mod. http://aok.heavengames.com/cgi-bin/forums/display.cgi?action=st&fn=9&tn=44365&f=9,44365,0,30

Progress: 37% Complete.
posted 06-17-17 02:38 AM CT (US)     30 / 61  
I suggest a change to Swedish techs, replacing Shock Tactics with Adolphus Reforms, increasing attack of all military, slightly reducing their armor and greatly increasing cannon movement speed.

Co-creator and leader of Monsoon Studios

You are kneeling with your tongue out? What exactly do you think is going to happen here? - Matt

A drush is not a knockout punch; it is the first punch in a combo - Barbarossa
posted 06-19-17 06:34 PM CT (US)     31 / 61  
Adolphus Reforms, increasing attack of all military, slightly reducing their armor and greatly increasing cannon movement speed.
Might I ask about your reasoning? Yes, the reforms of Gustavus Adolphus made Sweden a prominent local power, but all the other bonuses reflect his reforms. Also, it is kinda similar to the first bonus on the list. I thin Shock Tactics better represents their entire history.

Also, I think faster artillery movement might be better for the European French.
posted 06-20-17 02:27 AM CT (US)     32 / 61  
Also, I think faster artillery movement might be better for the European French.
It could be the French bonus and Swedish UT. I suggest a compromise: Melee infantry attack 2x as fast AND artillery moves 25úster
They need some powerful tech due to their "bonus"
Units become 10% more expensive, train 5% slower every age

Co-creator and leader of Monsoon Studios

You are kneeling with your tongue out? What exactly do you think is going to happen here? - Matt

A drush is not a knockout punch; it is the first punch in a combo - Barbarossa
posted 06-21-17 03:04 PM CT (US)     33 / 61  
I don't know about much dutch history but heres my take on the dutch

Dutch

Building Health Upgrades give +20% more HP (Because the Dutch had their own style of architecture.)

Ships move 10% faster +10% HP but transport ships +10 Garrison (Dutch navy used to carry heavy loads. The fluyt was a dutch built ship.)

Markets give 100+ Gold when built (Dutch marketing has lot of investments in gold.)

Unique Unit: Ruyter (Dutch Light ranged cavalry armed with two pistols.The name reiter/ruyter means rider in dutch.)

Unique Building: Bank (Low health building that Produces/stores gold)

Unique Tech: Windmills (Produces food over time 30% more health 10% cheaper but produces 5 food every 15 seconds)

Team Bonus: Tradecarts/Tradecogs 10% faster (Dutch traded over seas with fluyts and transports)

The dutch traded a lot of resources over seas and were a naval experts too but had good strength on sea and land)
posted 06-22-17 11:23 PM CT (US)     34 / 61  
Ships move 10% faster +10% HP but transport ship +10 Garrison (Dutch navy used to carry heavy loads. The fluyt was a dutch built ship.)
Hmm... This sounds good, but I think a more specific bonus might be better. This just makes them slightly better than regular boats. I'll do some research first
Markets give 100+ Gold when built (Dutch marketing has lot of investments in gold.)
This is a bit overpowered. 100 gold for each town center is fine because they are fairly expensive buildings which rely on stone. 175 wood for 100 gold is a WAY better rate than the market in the late game.
Unique Unit: Ruyter (Dutch Light ranged cavalry armed with two pistols.The name reiter/ruyter means rider in dutch.)
Reiters were more German than Dutch, and would be better as mercenaries than as a UU. The Netherlands are also a terrible place for horses. Instead, a better idea would be to have the Halberdier as a unique unit, probably a replacement for the pikeman. Dutch halberds historically beat Spanish pikemen, so they should have a bonus against regular pikemen.
Unique Building: Bank (Low health building that Produces/stores gold)
A bit like the plantation, but if you could make it actually trickle gold it would be pretty unique
Unique Tech: Windmills (Produces food over time 30% more health 10% cheaper but produces 5 food every 15 seconds)

This doesn't really make much sense, both because windmills were everywhere and because the affect is confusingly described.
Team Bonus: Tradecarts/Tradecogs 10% faster (Dutch traded over seas with fluyts and transports)
Why not 33% faster? The Spanish have a similar bonus, and no one is calling them OP.

Historically, the two big wars you would want to look at for the Dutch are the Anglo-Dutch wars and the Eighty Years War, AKA the Dutch War of Independence, and maybe the Thirty Years Wars. One of the greatest generals of the Wars of Independence was Maurice of Nassau, who's strategy was to drill his army until they could reorganize positions at a moment's notice, and then do everything he could to keep that army safe, fighting only two pitched battles in 20 years of war, mostly laying siege to enemy towns, and winning those two battles. Therefore, I would imagine them to be somewhat like the Celts, with fast-moving infantry to avoid conflict and ease micromanaging and good artillery, but with a good navy.

Also, while everyone thinks of the terrible failures of the Dutch colonial empire in the Americas, a better example for their colonial reign would be their rule in Indonesia, then called Batavia. The Dutch, rather than settle the entire archipelago, controlled from the largest city centers, manipulating local princes and nobles into keeping relative order, only really enforcing the spice trade, which they did with an iron fist.

Idea! The Dutch could have Southwest Asian skins for their native units because their only colonies that they held for very long were in Asia. The stats wouldn't have to be any different- it would only be something special for them.

However, I would hold off doing any of the more naval-oriented nations because the naval unit tree hasn't been decided yet. Yes, I know the Portuguese are very naval-oriented, but I was thinking that the civilization would probably be redone once the naval tree has been decided.

[This message has been edited by Dr Roach (edited 08-03-2017 @ 08:42 PM).]

posted 08-23-17 08:58 AM CT (US)     35 / 61  
I'll try to do the Germans.

Infantry and Siege civ


Bonuses:
Villagers produced twice as fast, but gather 20% slower from natural resources (30 years war, destroyed lands, but quick repopulation)

Cannons fire 25% faster and have +10% HP

Town Centers have double HP

UU

Landknecht - slow and powerful anti infantry swordsman

Uhlan - Fast and weak lancer with bonus vs siege and infantry

UT

Imperial Reforms: All military is produced 20% faster and all gold income sources increased by 10%

Protestantism: German monk receive +1/+1 armor and all units are 50% more resistant to conversions

Team Bonus: Infantry has 20% HP


I was relying on AoE3 Germans here though

Co-creator and leader of Monsoon Studios

You are kneeling with your tongue out? What exactly do you think is going to happen here? - Matt

A drush is not a knockout punch; it is the first punch in a combo - Barbarossa

[This message has been edited by Great_Artiste (edited 08-23-2017 @ 09:17 AM).]

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