Triple HP-inspired tricks - Age of Empires Forums

Topic Subject: Triple HP-inspired tricks

Rasteve
Clubman

posted 10-14-09 11:50 AM ET (US)

Kind of related to this thread

I know that a triple hp map template exists, but was wondering how this was discovered?

In the dat file, the techage "100" has the following lines:

techage_100_name: A01
techage_100_count: 15
techage_100_0_type: 5
techage_100_0_unit: -1
techage_100_0_class: 0
techage_100_0_attribute: 0
techage_100_0_amount: 3
techage_100_1_type: 5
techage_100_1_unit: -1
techage_100_1_class: 21
techage_100_1_attribute: 0
techage_100_1_amount: 3
techage_100_2_type: 5
techage_100_2_unit: -1
techage_100_2_class: 2
techage_100_2_attribute: 0
techage_100_2_amount: 3
techage_100_3_type: 5
techage_100_3_unit: -1
techage_100_3_class: 20
techage_100_3_attribute: 0
techage_100_3_amount: 3
techage_100_4_type: 5
techage_100_4_unit: -1
techage_100_4_class: 22
techage_100_4_attribute: 0
techage_100_4_amount: 3
techage_100_5_type: 5
techage_100_5_unit: -1
techage_100_5_class: 3
techage_100_5_attribute: 0
techage_100_5_amount: 3
techage_100_6_type: 5
techage_100_6_unit: -1
techage_100_6_class: 4
techage_100_6_attribute: 0
techage_100_6_amount: 3
techage_100_7_type: 5
techage_100_7_unit: -1
techage_100_7_class: 26
techage_100_7_attribute: 0
techage_100_7_amount: 3
techage_100_8_type: 5
techage_100_8_unit: -1
techage_100_8_class: 24
techage_100_8_attribute: 0
techage_100_8_amount: 3
techage_100_9_type: 5
techage_100_9_unit: -1
techage_100_9_class: 6
techage_100_9_attribute: 0
techage_100_9_amount: 3
techage_100_10_type: 5
techage_100_10_unit: -1
techage_100_10_class: 12
techage_100_10_attribute: 0
techage_100_10_amount: 3
techage_100_11_type: 5
techage_100_11_unit: -1
techage_100_11_class: 28
techage_100_11_attribute: 0
techage_100_11_amount: 3
techage_100_12_type: 5
techage_100_12_unit: -1
techage_100_12_class: 18
techage_100_12_attribute: 0
techage_100_12_amount: 3
techage_100_13_type: 5
techage_100_13_unit: -1
techage_100_13_class: 13
techage_100_13_attribute: 0
techage_100_13_amount: 3
techage_100_14_type: 5
techage_100_14_unit: -1
techage_100_14_class: 27
techage_100_14_attribute: 0
techage_100_14_amount: 3

Basically, the following "unit classes" have their hit points (attribute 0) multiplied by 3:

Foot Archers Group
Fishing Ships Group
Trade Ships Group
Transport Ships Group
War Ships Group
Buildings Group
Villagers Group
Elephant Archers Group
War Elephants Group
Infantry Group
Cavalry Group
Heavy Infantry Group
Priests Group
Siege Group
Wall Group

I spotted another techage "105" which may possibly turn trading off. If the process/steps required to create the template involve using the number "100" I would like to try a map using the same process but using the number "105".

Author

Replies:

Gumble
Clubman

posted 10-14-09 11:32 PM ET (US) 1 / 26

Gumble was actualy going to ask about this, how exactly does one ust the triple hp template? For example: Gumble wants only one or two units to have triple hp (like Ingo in his Tai gun 2 campaign) but with the template everyone has triple hp???

Too many people say far too much about Gumble. They also claim Gumble says far too much which isnt true.

One man's truth is another man's lie. Seek TRUTH to escape this moral mire.

'Experts' try to analyse human behaviour and the human condition and make grand conclusions. - Its the same as the guy who explains why a joke is funny and kills the joke.

Rasteve
Clubman

posted 10-15-09 03:20 AM ET (US) 2 / 26

I have to try the campaign - I would have guessed all units in the specified group was subject to the triple hp.

Chariot/Chariot Archers/Scythe Chariots/Horse Archers/Heavy Horse Archers are not included in the mentioned techage - maybe this will shed light onto why certain units do not have triple hp.

I believe that the techage also contains the "full tech tree" code - where fire galley is restricted in favour of catapult trirmees/juggernaughts - this will be very useful for AoH

PhatFish
Mr. Beta

posted 10-15-09 10:07 AM ET (US) 3 / 26

I know that a triple hp map template exists, but was wondering how this was discovered?

This thread is when I announced my discovery, back then the original template still had a few nasty bugs which were fixed quickly by Trisolo.

This is the first method which allowed partial control of painting hidden terrains (using AoK), which appear in AoE when converted using Lloyd Kinsella's cmp manager. It didn't always work properly (usually you'd end up with a 'glitched' map), and would cause frequent crashes when trying to open the converted scenario. The triple hp mode was activated on most occasions, but not always.

It affects nearly all units, with the exception of Gaia and few heroes and RoR units (not sure about Armored Ele).

It's officially called the "Lengthen Combat Mode" like Trisolo mentioned earlier, and is accessable in the "Options" menu in the scn Editor of the alpha versions.

If the process/steps required to create the template involve using the number "100" I would like to try a map using the same process but using the number "105".

I'm not sure if it's possible to activate the Lengthen combat mode somehow using a custom .dat, but it can be done using the above outdated method or hex-editing. The boolean which controls the mode is activated by adding a small piece of hex-code, which can be copied from any template/scenario which has the mode included.

Gumble wants only one or two units to have triple hp (like Ingo in his Tai gun 2 campaign) but with the template everyone has triple hp???

I'm pretty sure he never used the mode in any of his great campaigns, it's probably a civ bonus.

The Heavenly Escort � Night of the Dragon � Corlis (DE) � Dark Forest 2v2 (DE) � New Random Maps � Night Mode � Lengthen Combat Mode � The Big Hill � 512x512, 768x768, 1024x1024 map sizes � All Map Sizes � All Map Sizes (AoK) � BTI Soundtrack

[This message has been edited by PhatFish (edited 10-15-2009 @ 10:12 AM).]

Rasteve
Clubman

posted 10-15-09 11:22 AM ET (US) 4 / 26

Ok I see. Basically it was something that didn't make it to the final game - a feature to make units/buildings with triple hp (possibly to make games longer).

Just scanning the opening thread, this ties in with the techage 100. If you wanted to have chariots etc also subject to the triple hp bonus via the templates you could use a modified dat file, adding chariots etc to the techage 100.

The boolean which controls the mode is activated by adding a small piece of hex-code, which can be copied from any template/scenario which has the mode included.

When I have some spare time I will take a look at this. I may be able to create "no trade" templates.

On another note, because the triple hp bonus effects are set in the dat file, I may do something different for AoH. I am open to suggestions!

- Unlimited population templates (no pop cap)
- Zero unit/building cost templates
- All units with max LOS templates

PhatFish
Mr. Beta

posted 10-15-09 02:57 PM ET (US) 5 / 26

I experimented with the mode in the past trying to create something like a double hp mode by hex-editing, but to no avail.

techage_100_0_amount: 3

Does this control the amount/times of HP? If it does, what will happen if you set a negative amount like -3?

I can make a small tutorial on how to activate the LCM if needed, it's pretty simple though. You can also download my "extra small scenarios pack" and compare the hex data between the templates, the small size should help a lot identifying the part which activates the mode.

I may be able to create "no trade" templates.

- Unlimited population templates (no pop cap)
- Zero unit/building cost templates
- All units with max LOS templates

Wait, you don't need enhanced .dats for the templates?

Rasteve
Clubman

posted 10-15-09 03:38 PM ET (US) 6 / 26

I experimented with the mode in the past trying to create something like a double hp mode by hex-editing, but to no avail.

I need to see the hex code which kicks off the triple hp mode, but I am guessing that the code simply kicks off a process in the game which in turn looks for the techage 100 and executes the effects. In order to do a double hp map, you would need to change the dat file (techage 100) - with all the "amount: 3" values changed to 2 i.e. you will need an edited dat file. In fact, changing the values to 2 in the dat file and running them against the current "triple hp templates" will actually create double hp maps.

Does this control the amount/times of HP? If it does, what will happen if you set a negative amount like -3?

Negative HPs I guess - not sure how the game would cope. If you changed the numbers to 0.5 you will get hps reduced by half in the template maps.

I can make a small tutorial on how to activate the LCM if needed, it's pretty simple though. You can also download my "extra small scenarios pack" and compare the hex data between the templates, the small size should help a lot identifying the part which activates the mode.

Okay I will take a look soon. If you have the code at hand please post it up

Wait, you don't need enhanced .dats for the templates?

Yes, what I mean was to change the techage 100 to do something different (such as all units counting as zero towards pop count). Then I can create special maps (via the methods used to create triple hp maps) and packing them into the AoH release.

PhatFish
Mr. Beta

posted 10-16-09 10:54 AM ET (US) 7 / 26

I wonder if buildings would appear as foundations when setting a negative amount, gotta try it out sometime

I made a tutorial on how to activate the LCM, it features the Hex-code you wanted to see.

what I mean was to change the techage 100 to do something different

I thought you found a way of generating new templates at first, which seemed rather impossible considering the features they would have

I'm looking forward to seeing these new .dat enhanced templates in action.

Rasteve
Clubman

posted 10-16-09 01:08 PM ET (US) 8 / 26

Thanks for the code - just did a quick scan and I cannot see the techage 100 being activated directly - it must be trigged in the exe itself.

But this hasn't been a waste - as I will introduce "special" template maps for AoH. Not sure what yet, I will have to think of some good ideas and then test them out. No population cap could be interesting for multiplayer games, and could be something I plug into one of the campaigns.

Units with zero cost could be another?

Let me think about this, as I may be able to come up with a very good feature.

Axoren
Clubman

posted 10-17-09 02:00 PM ET (US) 9 / 26

What's the point of 3x HP? All that does is make already unbearably long combat longer. That priests will have an incredible advantage, hunting elephants can be done solo. It completely unbalances things.

[/Your Reign]
Take that, Player 2!

Rasteve
Clubman

posted 10-17-09 02:08 PM ET (US) 10 / 26

(PhatFish correct me if I am wrong)

The triple hp was intended to be an optional feature, as you say, to make combat longer. The code is still contained in the game, and if the opening of a scenario picks up the code as shown by PhatFish's tutorial, the mode is activated.

I agree with you, the change in balance doesn't look like a good idea, and must be the reason it was never included as an option in the full game.

Axoren
Clubman

posted 10-17-09 02:44 PM ET (US) 11 / 26

So my question is, how do you activate a techage from the beginning? I only know how to modify techages hooked up to research options in buildings.

[/Your Reign]
Take that, Player 2!

Fisk
Champion of AoEH
(id: Fruktfisk)

posted 10-17-09 04:06 PM ET (US) 12 / 26

Wait, so if this techage could be activated without research from the beginning of a scenario, would it be possible with others as well? I.e enabling legions to a stone age civ or similar?

//The warrior of Isola

"I lack quotes that demonstrate Humor Intelligence or anything about me."

Pineapplefish
Cleidopus gloriamaris

Rasteve
Clubman

posted 10-18-09 05:50 AM ET (US) 13 / 26

So my question is, how do you activate a techage from the beginning? I only know how to modify techages hooked up to research options in buildings.

The stone age techage is activated from the beginning of all games - so simply modify the techage 94.

Wait, so if this techage could be activated without research from the beginning of a scenario, would it be possible with others as well? I.e enabling legions to a stone age civ or similar?

This is a little more complex, as the legion is dependant on prerequisites (long sword, iron age, fanaticism) - but you could delete this technology (legion) and add the techage effects of "enable legion", for example (you still need to decide what you want done with short sword etc - maybe delete these).

BTW - both of these questions are not relevant to the triple-hp templates as these are to do with an additional set of tech effects which are actioned only in the template (and not in say random map, or death match, basically anything that doesnt use the templates).

Nacht Jaeger
Clubman
(id: RCM7525)

posted 10-18-09 06:43 PM ET (US) 14 / 26

I wish I had written down all I had discovered when I managed to create a new technology.

Nacht Jaeger - Ex AoEH Angel

Gumble
Clubman

posted 10-19-09 06:41 PM ET (US) 15 / 26

Original question, Ingo DID use triple-hp units, second (third?) scernario of Tai Gun II, it features two legions with 480 hp, and you have to use an allied priest to find out which is the fake character. The rest of the units have regular hps so how did he do this? or better yet, how can we reproduce this effect of only having selective units with triple hps?

Rasteve
Clubman

posted 10-20-09 02:28 PM ET (US) 16 / 26

Gumble - I will take a look at the campaign shortly.

One way to have certain units with different hps would be to hex-edit the scenario itself.

Gumble
Clubman

posted 10-20-09 02:54 PM ET (US) 17 / 26

No wait, Gumble was mistaken, he checked himself it was just a civ bonus. The question remains though: Is it possible to have triple hp and regular hp units on the same map?

Rasteve
Clubman

posted 10-21-09 08:09 AM ET (US) 18 / 26

The short answer would be yes.

- decompress the scenario file (via the util PhatFish recently uploaded)
- locate the units within the scenario file
- alter hp for selected units

But of course, you will need to understand the hex code (which is no easy task).

AoKH does have a utility named "Trigger Studio" which can open scenario files - and you may be able to use this.

PhatFish
Mr. Beta

posted 10-21-09 10:48 AM ET (US) 19 / 26

Trisolo has done this before (player owned building foundations) so yeah it is possible. I don't know the exact part of a unit string which controls HP yet, I should be able to find this out sometime I guess.

I do know where the unit strings are and how they work (for the most part). I can change any object/unit into other objects (e.g. a Gold Mine to a Wonder and vice-versa), just to name an example. This is what I did to create buildings which would go beyond the edge of the map, when designing my campaign. The Composite editor was not released yet at that point so the only option was to hex-edit to create the wanted effects.

Nacht Jaeger
Clubman
(id: RCM7525)

posted 10-21-09 10:54 AM ET (US) 20 / 26

From my experience with AoK, you can open a scenario with Trigger Studio but you can't do a whole lot with it.

Nacht Jaeger - Ex AoEH Angel

Ilmarinen
Clubman
(id: Cilibinarii)

posted 11-07-09 02:46 PM ET (US) 21 / 26

You can do a lot with AoK scenarios in trig studio, you can, in fact, do very much with AoK scenarios in trig studio. Only that you dont know the tricks ^^

If you 'mistyped' and meant you cant do much with AoE scenarios, thats rite.

Cilibinarii
My AOK Maps

Basse
Clubman

posted 11-07-09 03:31 PM ET (US) 22 / 26

But can you do anything with aoe scenarios?

Triple-HP would be awesome as DM games. Imagine Hittite Heavy Catapults, 300*3=900 and Babs towers 400*3=1200

Trisolo
Clubman
(id: scenario_t_c)

posted 12-30-09 10:00 AM ET (US) 23 / 26

Is it possible to have triple hp and regular hp units on the same map?

No.

Member of Tsunami Studios
Scenario T.C.: �Yes, the traitors can�t be terminated.�
Richard Ames: �Scenario_t_c should take care of them in a succinct but humorous fashion.�
Don Jorge de Leon: �Ave Trisolo! Vive Trisolo!�

Fisk
Champion of AoEH
(id: Fruktfisk)

posted 12-30-09 11:21 AM ET (US) 24 / 26

Triple-HP would be awesome as DM games. Imagine Hittite Heavy Catapults, 300*3=900 and Babs towers 400*3=1200

No way, Everything would get pwned by Carth 2250 hp war Eles.

//The warrior of Isola

"I lack quotes that demonstrate Humor Intelligence or anything about me."

Pineapplefish
Cleidopus gloriamaris

MrCheeze
Clubman

posted 12-30-09 11:23 AM ET (US) 25 / 26

@Trisolo: Unless you use the units that aren't affected.

"Mrcheeze your genius but not quite a Gumble-kind-of genius." - Gumble
"We're all friendly here except MrCheeze but he means well" - Ninetales (Not exact words)
"Gumble has no words for you, you’re boring now. -underrated- that’s a joke, Gumble is OVERSTATED." - Gumble
(Not even sure what he was saying there)

Trisolo
Clubman
(id: scenario_t_c)

posted 12-30-09 11:27 AM ET (US) 26 / 26

Okay, you pwned me...

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