Whats the use of having 1 frame of a unit? Building since its just one frame will be useful but a unit.

Besides we have 2 topics to show off concepts and wip mods already.

[This message has been edited by Mahazona (edited 07-03-2015 @ 11:15 AM).]

Theres no need for a new competition just beacause the fourms are splitting. There's not a Modding contest currently nor has there ever being. There are many reasons for this but the main one is that Mods take alot more time than whipping together a screenshot.

I think it's a bit too soon but I don't see why it shouldn't be done. Sure it will be though but I can create a new building in a day and I know people like Matt, Jorgito and Yan(toddler) can make 3D models of units in like a day. Sure these graphics wouldn't immediately be ready for the game but it would be nice if modders could show off their skill. It might create more interested and get more people to test their artistic skills or share their knowledge and resources with the community.

There are many smaller aspects of modding which can be done in a short time span and can give people a place to compete with each other.

I doubt anyone will want to make a unit frame every week. Plus the rounds wouldn't be quite a good touch.

[This message has been edited by Arnas (edited 07-03-2015 @ 01:23 PM).]

Yh not a Continuous Modpack Competition, but some other kinds of competitions which would be for a longer period.

One frame wouldn't be too much work. If someone is up for hosting this, I suggest making it some kind of graphics library, where anyone can download existing entries and continue/edit them as they please. Rounds can both be very widely ranged and very specific, like "Middle Eastern Imperial Barracks" or just "Ranged Cavalry Unit". Whenever a graphics designer is running out of ideas, they can simply browse through the CMC until one of the entries stirs their interest and edit it or just use it as a template for an actual slp. And whenever someone has a brilliant idea but lacks time and/or skill to make a whole slp, they can share their idea in the CMC so that others might be able to continue it.

[This message has been edited by Defibrilator (edited 07-03-2015 @ 01:32 PM).]

Perhaps a Continuous Modpack Screenshot Contest could work, akin to the regular CSC but with screenshots of any released (or possibly even in progress) mods, giving people free choice to use any of them. That might give mods some visibility even when they aren't used much for scenarios. It will also draw in a broader crowd than just modders, as you don't need to make a modpack to submit something, and the results are directly visible to everyone. The screenshots could be along a set theme, just like with the CSC.

How much time would it take to create an entirely new unit/building graphic ? (estimated, obviously.) I know I'm being off-topic here but I was always interested in modding AoE 2 and other games, but I'm always scared by how much time it takes

[This message has been edited by Aristeides (edited 07-03-2015 @ 04:55 PM).]

Creating a single unit frame can be done in 5 minutes. A whole unit can take days, weeks even. A building can take 10 minutes to 2 hours, but you only need one frame and the whole thing is done.

@Kor, I don't think that would stir enough interest, considering that it'd be almost exactly same as the CSC. I think an occasional special CSC round where mods are allowed would work better.

[This message has been edited by Defibrilator (edited 07-03-2015 @ 05:37 PM).]

Thanks for the response Devastator!

Creating a single unit frame can be done in 5 minutes. A whole unit can take days, weeks even. A building can take 10 minutes to 2 hours, but you only need one frame and the whole thing is done.

This is very situational and depends on the artist, the complexity of the unit/building and the tools you use. Learning the skills does take quite some time though. Certainly a few days to just to learn the basics.

@Kor, I don't think that would stir enough interest, considering that it'd be almost exactly same as the CSC. I think an occasional special CSC round where mods are allowed would work better.

Moderators have been a bit reluctant to allow mods in the CSC as far as I know. I think it's worth it to have a CSC for mods but maybe with a longer period in between or have CSC do one week vanilla, one week a modded version. People here have made awesome mods which are excellent for making beautiful screenshots but they just don't get the attention they deserve in my opinion.

A building can take 10 minutes to 2 hours

Creating a decent looking building two hours would be an absolute minimum for me. If you take account of everything, including proper use of perspective, shadows, matching the colours of various buildings, etc, it can easily take 5 hours even without counting research (when basing it on real buildings). That's using copy-paste techniques, but 3d modelling will not be much faster for comparable results.

This is why a Continuous Modpack Screenshot Contest would, imo, be a good idea: I have so little time to mod that I'm certainly not going to make a building or unit for what is in effect a just for fun contest, and I am sure the same is the case for many others. But making a screenshot with graphics you've already made is no effort at all.

The people running the CSC have granted mod packs a grand total of I believe 1 round out of the 310 that have occurred thus far! If we want mods to become visible. a CMSC could be an excellent way of establishing that, as clearly we should not expect this attention from the CSC itself.

It is also by far the most low-level entry contest that you can imagine (which is what should be the case for a contest with no tangible reward) as you can use other people's mods as well as your own. It's simply about making a screenshot using the varied assets that have been made by the mod pack community over the past 15 or so years. It's great to give them some exposure - as Jan dc has said, many have not received the attention they deserve (Age of Chivalry is a lucky exception).

To be frank, every other contest you can think of will probably draw in fewer contestants if you want to have it run with any regularity. (Of course, other contests might be a good idea as well, but being less regular they would attract attention to the forum less regularly also.)

I was mainly talking about copy/paste graphics, which is still the best way to make them (although probably not the most efficient)

[This message has been edited by Defibrilator (edited 07-03-2015 @ 07:18 PM).]

I have to agree with Jan and Kor on this one. A modded CSC for the modding forum would be very cool, and give mods much more exposure - it would be a very convenient way of advertising current modding projects as well. Additionally, a contest like this would continue to stress the link between SD&M despite the forum split, which is a good thing.

Someone correct me if I'm wrong, but I tend to notice that the people who enter the current CSC are by and large a distinct group from those who develop mods (with a few small exceptions). Whether or not that is due to the current CSC not allowing mods, I'm not sure, but either way it means that a modding CSC will likely not detract from the activity level in the vanilla CSC. Additionally, a modding CSC will draw on folks that primarily play non-vanilla content such as Chivalry, AoF, and ToME, whereas they might not have entered in the vanilla CSC before due to their preferred game versions being disallowed.

[This message has been edited by HockeySam18 (edited 07-03-2015 @ 07:16 PM).]

I'm not sure if a csc duplicate would work. I think having a single frame copy/paste (or modeling, for those who want it) competition would not only require minimum effort, but also allow us to have a constantly updating graphics library. Graphics designers that lack inspiration could take a quick browse through all the entries to edit them, use them as templates or simply get ideas. Others that have brilliant ideas but lack the time to make a complete unit could show off while competing against others without having to spend days to complete a unit that would quickly end up gathering dust in the blacksmith.

That's a good idea worth considering as well. That being said, we're working on revamping the old 'Designer's Tavern' thread and doing a separate one for modding in the modding forum. Those kinds of threads encourage designers and modders to share their work and motivate each other to innovate, so it might be worthwhile for the modding community and the staff member in charge of that thread to encourage something of the like. In the new designer's tavern thread, I'll be featuring design tricks in the OP every so often and encouraging designers to submit their own as well, so something along those lines with graphics in the modding tavern thread might be good.

My one fear about a continuous modding graphic contest is that deadlines would either be too sporadic or too frequent for people to create quality graphics, and thus people would cease to use it as much. But I could very well be wrong.

I was mainly talking about copy/paste graphics, which is still the best way to make them (although probably not the most efficient)

By looking at the modding community there are more copy past modders than 3d modders still so if there is going to be a competition it should have different category's for both.My personal opinion is for a unit it should be a full unit voting for a concept might not be very realistic as some units look great on concept but might not be realistic to complete at least for copy past units.

I don`t see the point of making an unit fully for the competition,It will be just make deadlines too long

Like Defibrilator I also cannot join with the opinion of making a duplicate CSC.As he said early,The graphic library as an output of this competition is the best idea

And in my opinion,The deadline must be same as CSC

I don`t see the point of making an unit fully for the competition,It will be just make deadlines too long

It will give the modding competition some real use other than a place with just pictures.

But don`t you think it will make a simple competition like CSC to a hard one with very few participants?I still stand with 1frame 4 1entry

And won`t you agree that graphic library is a great use?

[This message has been edited by Shyam prasad (edited 07-04-2015 @ 01:27 AM).]

I agree it will be very time consuming and hard but look at the CSC topic also very few people post in it its sometimes hard to get even 2 entries to start the voting.

And won`t you agree that graphic library is a great use?

Maybe for inspiration but I still dont see a real use for it still,but if the majority thinks its a good Idea we should try it.

Quoted from Defibrilator

I think having a single frame copy/paste (or modeling, for those who want it) competition would not only require minimum effort, but also allow us to have a constantly updating graphics library. Graphics designers that lack inspiration could take a quick browse through all the entries to edit them, use them as templates or simply get ideas. Others that have brilliant ideas but lack the time to make a complete unit could show off while competing against others without having to spend days to complete a unit that would quickly end up gathering dust in the blacksmith.

but if the majority thinks its a good Idea we should try it.

Yes we must seek a lot of opinions from a lot of forumers to decide in this subject(a poll maybe???),Because this is a common issue of all modders in this site.

[This message has been edited by Shyam prasad (edited 07-04-2015 @ 01:44 AM).]

Mahazona, I don't think there would be much of a point if the modding library is just another place where you can download stuff. Not to mention that the amount of entries would be about zero, not only because it would take ages, but but also because most people like to work at their own pace.

I am quite uncertain whether 2 CSC-esque competitions would work well. While I like the idea of having 1 round with no mods and 1 with mods taking turns each, I'm also not quite convinced about the feasability.

Don't get me wrong, I'm very much in favour of some kind of modding competition, but not sure about the concept yet. But keep posting your ideas, please!

Mahazona, I don't think there would be much of a point if the modding library is just another place where you can download stuff. Not to mention that the amount of entries would be about zero, not only because it would take ages, but but also because most people like to work at their own pace.

I agree people mod at their own pace and the amount of entries will be very less but shouldn't a modding library be a place where people can download stuff easily with out having to go through each and every topic in the blacksmith much like the really outdated one in civi 3 forum?

John I totally agree with you it should be something feasible and sparks interest in modders,a competition always brings up good things and improves quality imho.

I agree people mod at their own pace and the amount of entries will be very less but shouldn't a modding library be a place where people can download stuff easily with out having to go through each and every topic in the blacksmith much like the really outdated one in civi 3 forum?

It won't be as inactive if all that people need to do is make a single frame. As for the downloading, I think it should look a bit like the CSC archives. For convenience, an imgur album with all the entries could be useful too.

[This message has been edited by Defibrilator (edited 07-04-2015 @ 03:22 AM).]

But why would they even bother making a single frame they'll then not use anymore? And what even is the point of a contest of single-frame graphics that have no application in the game? I find the idea frankly bizarre, it doesn't seem appealing to either modders or players.

Well what's the point of making a screenshot then if it won't be used in any scenario anyways?

[This message has been edited by Defibrilator (edited 07-04-2015 @ 05:05 AM).]

The purpose of a screenshot contest is to allow people to show off both map designing and modding skills (either their own or those of others, considering you wouldn't have to use your own mod) in one go, and make something that looks appealing for other people to admire and that might even inspire them. Obviously, as people would be allowed to use already published mods, a lot of the assets on display could actually be used by people in scenarios right away.

Quoted from Kor:

The purpose of a screenshot contest is to allow people to show off both map designing and modding skills (either their own or those of others, considering you wouldn't have to use your own mod) in one go, and make something that looks appealing for other people to admire and that might even inspire them.

That is also the purpose of making a one frame entry

That is also the purpose of making a one frame entry

Yes, and unlike with screenshots, people can actually edit/continue one frame entries later.

But unlike one frame contests, with developed screenshots you end up with something that looks unique and interesting to people who don't use or make mods, is different from the regular mod project threads (which usually already show one-frame previews of units and buildings, rather than placing them in-game), which requires only a little time and only a little dedicated work, which allows people who don't make mods themselves to participate, and shows how mods can be integrated into the game.

Like I said, I'm not going to enter any one-frame modding contests, because I don't have the time. But I certainly would enter some screenshot contests, as I've regularly been tempted by regular CSC contests and didn't submit due to the no mod restriction. Of course, Defibrillator, I am looking forward to seeing you contribute all your no doubt numerous high quality graphics to the one frame contest Shyam Prasad is apparently going to host.

But unlike one frame contests, with developed screenshots you end up with something that looks unique and interesting to people who don't use or make mods, is different from the regular mod project threads (which usually already show one-frame previews of units and buildings, rather than placing them in-game), which requires only a little time and only a little dedicated work, which allows people who don't make mods themselves to participate, and shows how mods can be integrated into the game.

And with one frame units, you end up with something that also looks unique and interesting to people who aren't into scenario design, is different from regular scenario project threads (which usually already show screenshot previews of their map design), which requires only a little time and only a little dedicated work, which allows people who don't make scenarios themselves to participate, and gives modders that need inspiration an ever growing database to chose from

I'm not saying that a modded screenshot contest is a bad idea. However I do think that making it a seperate thing that is almost identical to the CSC wouldn't be able to spark enough interest, and should therefore be integrated into the CSC somehow.

[This message has been edited by Defibrilator (edited 07-04-2015 @ 09:18 AM).]

From my end, every screenshot I've entered into the CSC has also been added to a scenario of mine. I tend to take inspiration from the theme and then come up with something that would fit in my scenarios as well. Double-dipping in this manner is a great way to maximize efficiency. Given my busy RL schedule, I doubt I'd be nearly as motivated to participate in the CSC if the double-dipping I described were for some reason not allowed.

One other idea is to remove the restriction on mods from the CSC altogether. I've stated my opinion several times in the contest discussion thread that I don't believe that having a mod necessarily makes your design better. As a compromise, the winner of a CSC round would be able to decide whether or not mods are allowed in the next round for the theme that they have decreed. The CSC thread would stay in the SD forum because it's about designing a screenshot, after all, but that's fine anyway because the forum split in no way precludes users from checking both forums, and it would still be a nice way to keep a tangible link between SD&M. That being said, I'd also be in favor of two simultaneous CSCs running in the separate forums as per my above posts, though I fear this may end up being more divisive than not and cause less of a crossover between the forums.

Defibrilator,you hit the nail right on the head there

Quoted from HockeySam18:

As a compromise, the winner of a CSC round would be able...

No compromises.We need not the CSC,But a CMC,
and by this sentence...

The CSC thread would stay in the SD forum because it's about designing a screenshot

...You already have said that "moddable CSC" can`t substuite a competition for modders

[This message has been edited by Shyam prasad (edited 07-04-2015 @ 09:51 AM).]