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Topic Subject: Tundra - A Map Guide
posted 23 January 2004 09:29 PM EDT (US)   
After looking at the map guides on Heaven, and finding them a little wanting- sorry admins- I thought sharing this tundra map guide may be useful. It was originally prepared for a little map of the month feature we have on our clan's site, and as the cut and paste feature is a beautiful thing, I thought why not share it here? Please take the time to share your experiences on this map as your input would add to the topic.
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Tundra

Although erroneously named, tundra is one of three new additions to ES's AOMTT RM family. Having been installed with The Titans expansion, tundra- along with highland and marsh- brings the RM total to 11. Misnamed, as tundra actually describes a vast and level treeless Artic region characterized by frozen soil. In ES's version of tundra, in addition to having trees, players are free to farm- have you ever tried to hoe frozen soil!? Nonetheless, the map is a hunter's and miner's paradise. Speckled with generous gold piles, a distinct brown and yellow-coloured terrain, scrawny but plentiful trees and unique rock formations, a harsh and rugged landscape back dropped by a magical veil of falling snow best describes this map. The snow adds a distinct ambience and is an imaginative addition to the respectable inventory of atmospheric effects ES has already accumulated in the mythology editions: including mist, sand storms, clouds, smoke, lightning and many others. Because if its ubiquitous, easy-to-get-at resources, the map promotes fast and aggressive play. So let's put on our animal hide ponchos and booties, and venture into the snow to get a better look at this month's map, tundra.

Generalities

Although not illustrated here, a high overhead view of a 1 v 1 tundra map reveals little by way of striking features. Basically it's a land map with the usual six settlements and copious amounts of resources. Note the ponds that dot the map: although holding water, they do not contain any fish patches.

This high oblique angle reveals the rugged terrain, comprised of continuous, gently rolling elevations that create a graceful undulating pattern across the entire landscape.

The map has these unique features:

1. Rock formations.

The following picture shows what the rock formations typically look like, but be aware that their placement is somewhat random, usually in the vicinity of the first TC- and in other places around the map- but not always conveniently located. Depending on their placement, because they're impassable (although some units can sometimes fit in between the rocks), using walls and buildings to augment the formations can create good defensive positions.

2. A large opening herd of goats.

The large opening herd of goats is a unique benefit to tundra, and some uses are less obvious than others. For any scout-starved civy, Eggies or Norse for example, the little gaggle of goats presents a miniature army of scouts. They're slow, have a tiny LOS, and are vulnerable to rustling. but there are a lot of them, and they are free- average number is about six. If a player has mastered his/her micro, the sheep provide a nifty little resource not found in many of the RMs. Note: according to forum posters, about 10 -15% of the time the RM scripting will replace a patch of berry bushes for the goats. Although seldom, it does occur.*

3. The terrain colours make gold piles a bit hard to indentify.

Is it just me, or do other people have this problem? (Refer to the picture below) The point is, be aware of this little quirk, and use the expanded mini map (TAB key) to help locate gold piles.

4. Scraggy trees.

Not exactly a secret new stategic weapon, but a unique feature. Although the trees look sickly, they yield just as much wood as do more lush looking RM forests like in alfeim or oasis. This is important since when judging stand size it's easy to assume you have less wood than is actually there. Look at the two pictures below. The top shot is a stand of alfeim trees and bottom is a stand of tundra trees. The prior looks more lush, but both types of trees are 150 wood each, and each stand holds exactly the same amount of wood.


5. Snowfall

Again, the snow is purely a visual aesthetic feature, but it's kinda neat, and is unique to the RM group. Although not depicted in this article, anyone who has played the map is familiar with this atmospheric effect.

6. Amazing Hunting

A veritable cornucopia of hunting awaits players in this map. In this example, there were 15 aurochs, 33 caribou and elk combined, and 11 artic wolves for a whopping 12,775 in available huntable food. The generous wildlife means players should get their hunting dogs upgrade early, and should hunt for as long as possible. Farming can therefore start later, and the ease on early game wood demand is especially appreciated by Atties. But the raiders also know a great opportunity when they see it!


Games played on this map generally revolve around a race for the huntables, and raids to deter hunting. That's why, despite the huge amount of natural food on this map, you will still see many top players using farms as a primary, late-game food source.

Ah. let it snow, let it snow, let it snow.

*Contributed by EvilCat_Knight and Dealer. Thanks guys!

[This message has been edited by tbarak (edited 01-29-2004 @ 06:51 AM).]

Replies:
posted 23 January 2004 09:43 PM EDT (US)     1 / 31  
very nice guide, i never reall noticed the rocks, and this one of my favorite maps, but it might only be my comp but most of the time, when i play this map, i get all the food, and another large patch of huntable is right next to a FB postion, very good for rushes
one more question: are u gonna be doing any more map guides? because i really would like to have a valley of the kings guide.

Sane and the Second Army's Coming
- An Upcoming AoE3 Scenario
- 1% Complete
posted 23 January 2004 10:20 PM EDT (US)     2 / 31  
Nice post!

What clan site is that on?

posted 24 January 2004 05:07 PM EDT (US)     3 / 31  
Thanks for checking out the article guys. Although valley of the kings is not an RM it is an interesting map, and may make a good subject for the next guide. I agree that tundra is great for its food, I never seem to run out like I do on other maps and it makes for fast transitions and plenty of food for flooding RCs.
posted 24 January 2004 05:10 PM EDT (US)     4 / 31  
valley of the kigns is a RM, its on the second page of the Rms in Titans

Sane and the Second Army's Coming
- An Upcoming AoE3 Scenario
- 1% Complete
posted 24 January 2004 06:23 PM EDT (US)     5 / 31  
Actually Shrapnel, valley of the kings (VOTK) is not an RM as in the ES definition. That is, if you play on ESO, and play either rated or advanced and stipulate the map to be an RM, you will never see valley of the kings. This is also true in single player if you chose to play RM. As they are defined in the game, the RMS are the more aggressive maps and include: alfheim, oasis, anatolia, savannah, mediterranean, watering holes, tundra, highland, midgard, ghost lake and marsh. The distinction is important especially if you play rated, as knowing the maps will greatly improve your game and rating. Although I do enjoy playing the other maps, I rarely see them because I play on ESO mostly. Thanks for the feedback otherwise.
posted 24 January 2004 06:54 PM EDT (US)     6 / 31  
Tbarak is right. It is NOT a RM... I think u mean that it is a standard map..which it is.
posted 24 January 2004 06:57 PM EDT (US)     7 / 31  
well, i thought u were talking bout RM in general, and since i now have a 28.8k connection, there is no way i can get on ESO anymore due to my dad thinking that the DSL wasn't helping me do work anymore so i forogt about that.
anyhoo, my bad

Sane and the Second Army's Coming
- An Upcoming AoE3 Scenario
- 1% Complete
posted 24 January 2004 07:38 PM EDT (US)     8 / 31  
The amount of work undertaken in the making of this post was evident .

Quote:

usual six settlements

True that, I've found myself screwed of my third TC one too often in this map. Like Highland, Tundra is sometimes prone to giving one of the players one less TC's..to make a total of 5 overall on the map


.¸¸.· · .¸¸.·´ §hïvå | RágeOfHaemòn · .¸¸.· · .¸¸.·
« . ° ¤ Scenario Designer | Woad Creations ¤ º . »
posted 24 January 2004 09:41 PM EDT (US)     9 / 31  
Hopefully the kind of hard work that AOMH considers into making stickies Shiva?

Although unfair map placement seems somewhat prevelant in AOMTT, tundra is particularly notorious. Because of the way the settlements are distributed on this map, uneven placement can create a grossly unfair advantage. Most of the time a player can expect to have at least one settlement near their first TC- located to the rear of the map like is found in anatolia. But I have seen games where a player is given three settlements right nearby, which creates a tremendous disadvantage for the other player.

I think this has to do with either the map scripting or the random number generator. But everytime I try to write about the random generator I am scorned for calling random not random enough. *sighs* The random generator should have protocols after it generates a random event. That's probably better left for another post though.

posted 24 January 2004 11:40 PM EDT (US)     10 / 31  
We dont need more stickies, if anything we need less stickies. No1 reads stickies, not even noobs. It would be nice to gather all these posts and put them on the strategy section so that ppl can read them.

Nice post btw. Could use a little more details. For example on this map, map control is important cause not all your settlements are "safe"(like they are on savanah for example).


ESO name : Relaxing

Eisai ellinas? Tote ela sto www.noobwars.gr.

[This message has been edited by NIB (edited 01-24-2004 @ 11:43 PM).]

posted 24 January 2004 11:57 PM EDT (US)     11 / 31  
When tundra appears on the screen, I know a couple of buddies of mine who jump with joy. The prevalent amount of hunting gives a huge boost to all gods, but overall is best for odin. He can easily raid and boom at the same time with minimal effort. Any player on this map should raid aggresively and seek out hunting parties/gold miners. Most of the time this map has fairly even resource deposits, but I have often seen unfair tc advantages and on some occasions, no wood withing initial stating area. I would always remember that a few well microed RC or even some hops can effectively take away a players food source on this map. This is by far one of the best maps to raid on with players hunting for gold and hunting for food. If your in the map control bunch of guys, I suggest periodically sending rc/camel/hipp/turma to scout out enemy gold/huntables. If your norse and you have extra wood, it is definately worth putting a building of some sort next to the gold mines as this is relatively low micro and takes little to no time to set up. It makes sense to put a rax so you can pump out units near the gold, but any building will work. Basically, if you remember the old days, this technique is called "radar housing" so use it to your greatest potential. Have fun.

Erik


Veni, Vidi, Vici
Trample the Weak - Hurdle the Dead!
"It's kind of a...persnickety magic." Atzy
End of Nations!
End of Nations Community Manager
posted 25 January 2004 01:05 AM EDT (US)     12 / 31  
NIB, I always hesitate to go into map tactics but your point is well taken. I will improve this in the future. I do agree that some sort of library should be installed, or atleast grow the collection of articles that are already on the site: it seems there have been no additions or revisions is a long, long time. Moreso when I was starting out, but I still enjoy reading informational material on Ages as I always seem to learn something new.

But, to use Myll_Erik's post as an example, if people contribute their unique insights and play styles to the map discussion, I think the learning experience can go beyond anything I can contribute on my own. Thanks you guys!

Sorry Dominique, I didn't answer your question. The articles are found in the Training Hall section of the forums at:

www.dov.ca

We just started this project so there are only two maps so far, tundra and anatolia. You may have to register an account to enter the Training Hall Section. If you don't have access to it, be patient, as I will probably be posting the anatolia article here soon with more to follow if there is interest in them.

[This message has been edited by tbarak (edited 01-25-2004 @ 01:12 AM).]

posted 25 January 2004 03:26 AM EDT (US)     13 / 31  
good article. I have a small correction for you.

"2. A large opening herd of goats.

The large opening herd of goats is a unique benefit to tundra"

Sometimes you will get zero goats on Tundra. Your article gives the impression that you always get them. I would estimate from my gameplay that I get zero goats about 15-20% of the time. Whenever I do get a herd of goats, it's always relatively large.

posted 25 January 2004 03:40 AM EDT (US)     14 / 31  
I love Tundra and Marsh there amazing hunting maps.

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Leader of The VnX clan!


ESO Name: Rulezzz
posted 25 January 2004 04:12 AM EDT (US)     15 / 31  
If I look at the new TT maps, I get the feeling that ES has n00biefied the game. First off, the Atlanteans... everybody knows why. Second, both Marsh and Tundra are huge hunting maps, which is good for n00bs, since they don't know anything about when to switch etc. Highland is more challenging, because of the water and land, but even there you'll mostly see a herd of deer next to you're tc, with some Aurochs close to it...

I must say, all nice maps and stuff, but n00bified. Is ES affraid of making a harder game?

Just my 2 cents


God created the world, but the Dutch created Holland
posted 25 January 2004 04:23 AM EDT (US)     16 / 31  
Well, firstly, "noobifying" the game means a greater market for the game, therefore more sales = good for ES.

Although I agree with you OutlawZ, I think that making hunting increased, for example, leaves you more time to think about military strategies (which is probably what they wanted to focus on, considering the addition of the "Auto-Queue Button"). Many people love the military aspect of the game - it's the most fun, and making economy easier to manage means more fun for the player.

Just look back to the days of AOE/ROR:

- No "Gather Points"
- No Queues (Only one unit/technology allowed to be trained/researched at a time) - In ROR X-Pack, queueing units was allowed, but only if all units were the same (e.g. You could queue 5 Axemen, but not 2 Axemen and 3 Slingers).
- Villagers MUCH slower gatherers, and MUCH slower walkers. (max. villagers made was normally 24 since pop cap was 50), and Persians and Macedonians were never played because they didn't get the "Wheel" Tech (+30% Villager Gather Speed, ~+50% Villager Move Speed)
- Can only select one building at a time (including barracks etc.) - this meant even more use of the mouse!

Economy is soooo much more managable now, and military is the main aspect of the game, as it should be.

[This message has been edited by Quircus (edited 01-26-2004 @ 12:24 PM).]

posted 25 January 2004 01:11 PM EDT (US)     17 / 31  
Dealer- I have never seen a goat adsent tundra map but that's not to say it can't happen. I always thought that since RMs are based on scripting, that the elements within each map would be consistent, only that their placement is random. I know sometimes the goats are not in the opening LOS. However, your experience has shown otherwise so duly noted.

In terms of noobifying the maps, that's also an interesting point. The only thing is, you have a diminished return aspect. That is, what good is tons of hunting if your opponent raids you? In my experiences with tundra and marsh, either myself or my opponents always raid the food supply so one cannot simply merrily hunt without having to constantly be on the lookout for marauders. Given that ghost lake and oasis are so short of hunting, adding another map devoid of hunting would have probably drawn as many howls of protest. But I know that even good players breath a sigh of relieve when tundra comes up on the random map selection as at least for the first six minutes of the game, food income is assured.

posted 25 January 2004 02:36 PM EDT (US)     18 / 31  
This is the coolest post I have seen this year. Awesome!! More more!!
posted 25 January 2004 06:36 PM EDT (US)     19 / 31  
Very nice post. Guides that investigate one small part of the game in depth are great. ArtemisChimera has the MU guides, keep rolling with Map guides Tbarak.

ESO: Orion_Zorn

Proud Member of the Orion Clan!

"makes sense because if your running a race against a monkey and you die from a heart attack i don't think it should be a draw. the monkey actaully wins by default" - Sirgrayhorn

posted 25 January 2004 11:36 PM EDT (US)     20 / 31  
great job. nicely detailed and good grammar.

Auron: || Aurons Site || Aurons AoM:TT Creations || MY POETRY WEBSITE ||
posted 26 January 2004 06:03 AM EDT (US)     21 / 31  
Very nice guide tbarak.

GLORYOFSPARTA | RTWH and M2TWH Site Director, AoMH Game Information Admin, HeavenGames LLC
AoMH | RTWH | M2TWH | Ancient Greek Festival - 3rd to 4th of June in Watford, UK, 2006.
"Whoever obeys the gods, to him they particularly listen." - Homer
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posted 26 January 2004 12:12 PM EDT (US)     22 / 31  
Hey tbarak -

Can you e-mail me at iforgotmyname@mindless.com. I have some things I would like to talk to you about. If you prefer, thats my MSN screenname as well. Thanks

Erik


Veni, Vidi, Vici
Trample the Weak - Hurdle the Dead!
"It's kind of a...persnickety magic." Atzy
End of Nations!
End of Nations Community Manager

[This message has been edited by Myll_Erik (edited 01-26-2004 @ 12:30 PM).]

posted 26 January 2004 01:55 PM EDT (US)     23 / 31  
Now...wait a sec....How did you get those wierd screen angles?
posted 26 January 2004 02:20 PM EDT (US)     24 / 31  
Nice post. Tundra is one of my fav maps. I've also checked out your clan site, it has a bunch of good articles giving lots of gameplay tips. People, especially newbies, check it out
posted 26 January 2004 03:30 PM EDT (US)     25 / 31  
Good guide.

Check out all my recorded games, strategy articles, and other great features at http://ksjoseywales.nodecam.com/index.php?cat=1 I know it's ugly as anything, but it works.
posted 26 January 2004 05:32 PM EDT (US)     26 / 31  
Thanks Josey. While I really get a kick out of everyone's replies, a kind word from a player of your caliber is especially nice. Thanks for allowing us to use quotes from your site on our anatolia article and if it would be okay I would like to email you some time for a few words to include on future map articles we do- I think hearing input from top players would really improve the presentations. We will polish the anatolia article and publish it here next, then go back to one of the newer maps. And thank you Phat Fish for the kind words about our site. We have a long way to go, and unfortunately when we changed servers, many of the strat articles we wrote were lost. We plan to build them up again.

To reply to Miso;
While a magician who reveals his tricks doesn't stay employed for very long, in the spirit of helping, pressing the ctr-alt-c keys in the editor allows you to move the camera point-of-view. After pressing ctr-alt-c, use the - and + keys to zoom in and out, pressing ctl-arrow keys to change height, the arrow keys alone to move in the indicated direction and the mouse wheel to spin. Pressing the ctr-alt-c keys twice will return you to the original viewpoint. If such things interest you, I may suggest chilling in the scenario design forums where people discuss issues like this all the time.

posted 26 January 2004 05:34 PM EDT (US)     27 / 31  
Well done im impressed. Excellent guide.

~*S c a r f a c E*~
posted 26 January 2004 09:18 PM EDT (US)     28 / 31  

Quote:

Sometimes you will get zero goats on Tundra. Your article gives the impression that you always get them. I would estimate from my gameplay that I get zero goats about 15-20% of the time. Whenever I do get a herd of goats, it's always relatively large.

when you don't get any goats, you get berry bushes instead


Vigilance_ca
It's all about vigilance
Humans are both the smartest and dumbest organisms on the planet
posted 27 January 2004 02:10 PM EDT (US)     29 / 31  
Thanks Scarface!

EvilCat, nice observation about the goats and berry bushes-man, you learn something new every day here. I may have to revise my guide a bit! Although I myself have never seen a tundra map without goats, a few people have now told me their experiences with that. I sense that it happens rarely. Too bad those darn berry bushes don't walk around and scout.

posted 27 January 2004 09:16 PM EDT (US)     30 / 31  
Great guide! Even better with all the people posting things about it themselves.

Why don't those berry bushes walk around and scout
I mean, it is the age of mythology, of course they should walk around, haven't you ever heard of walking bushes in your religion?


Nick: Eten.
Gods: All of them!
Vanilla.
posted 27 January 2004 10:10 PM EDT (US)     31 / 31  
That really is the best map guide I've ever seen. Great job.
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