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Topic Subject: A Guide to the Petsuchos
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posted 03 April 2004 02:12 PM EDT (US)   
A Guide to the Petsuchos

I hoped you enjoyed ManticoreKiller's great Einherjar Guide last week. This week I'm starting the Egyptian Myth Units again. After the new and exciting Atlantean MUs, it feels good to be back at home with my favourite culture - Egypt. And what better than to start with the Petsuchos.

Here are there stats:

Cost: 200 Gold, 15 Favour, 4 Pop Spaces
HP: 480
Speed: 3.60
Hack Armour: 40%
Pierce Armour: 44%
Crush Damage: 12
Pierce Damage: 55
Range: 20

x 2 Bonus vs MUs
x 0.25 Bonus vs Heroes

Special attack: None
Special ability: 100% Accuracy
Upgrades available:
Crocodopolis - Increases the Petsuchos' Range and LOS

So mega attack, reasonable HP, slow and weakly armoured, but the cost! Only 15 Favour!
In terms of favour alone, the Petsuchos is the cheapest Heroic MU - even beating the Satyr. Heck the favour cost in the same as the Anubite's and Wadjet's, and cheaper than the Sphinx. So surely this means there's got to be something about the Petsuchos that makes it different from the other ranged units which cost more. Is it easily massable like the Automaton? Or a nice meaty unit that can survive a lot of damage from other units like the Mountain Giant? Let's see how it does against a basic Greek Hoplite.

NOTE: All units have been upgraded with Medium and Heavy line upgrades and Copper and Bronze armoury upgrades. All buildings have been upgraded with the Masons and Architects upgrades. Any other upgrades will be stated

All attack rates are tested per hit, not second. The Petsuchos attacks every 3 seconds, so its base pierce attack each hit is an incredible 165. Or is it?

Test 1: 1 Petsuchos vs 1 Hoplite (Zeus)

Hoplite Stats:
HP: 143
Speed: 4.70
Hack armour: 47%
Pierce armour: 31%
Hack damage: 11

Petsuchos does approximately 39 damage to Hoplite per hit
Hoplite does approximately 8 damage to Petsuchos per hit

Petsuchos kills Hoplite in 10 seconds.

No real surprise that the Petsuchos won, but the amount of damage it did is interesting. Taking that the Petsuchos' base pierce attack per second is 165 (which is an extremely large amount for any MU), then with the Hoplite's armour, the Petsuchos should in theory have an attack per hit of 116 (115.5) - which it clearly doesn't.

By doing some boring maths sums, I've worked out that the Petsuchos' base attack per hit is approximately 55; not 165 like the stats would have you believe. It's no real surprise that it wasn't as high as 165, and 55 is actually a very decent amount - well it would be if the Petsuchos attacked per second. But it doesn't, and so the real base attack has to be divided by 3 (it attacks every seconds).

This makes the Petsuchos' base attack per second 18.

Unfortunately for Petsuchos fans, it does not have a 55 pierce damage per second rate like the stats say it does: either ES are fooling us, they made a mistake, or I made a mistake. I am personally hoping the second option is correct

That said, 18 is not too bad an attack, and considering that the Petsuchos has 100% accuracy all the time and only costs 15 favour, I suppose we can take it with a pinch of salt and check out how well the Petsuchos does against other units.

Test 2: 3 Petsuchos vs 4 Chariot Archers (Set)

Chariot Archer stats:
HP: 108
Speed: 5.00
Range: 20
Hack armour: 43%
Pierce armour: 35%
Pierce damage: 11

Petsuchos win with all 3 still alive.

Due to the Petsuchos' long range, if you are attacked by CAs or Arcus who also have the same amount of range, simply attack back. Don't let the Petsuchos lose too much HP by pesky, long ranged archers while it is busy attacking melée units.
The Petsuchos also has much better accuracy than the CA and Arcus, so while their arrows are missing, the Crocs' sunbeams will always hit their targets.

But what about more "beefy" units?

Test 3: 3 Petsuchos vs 6 Raiding Cavalry (Thor)

Petsuchos win with all 3 alive.

Although one Petsuchos was close to being killed, it was an easy victory for the Crocodiles. With micro, these laser-gators can make easy work of raiders attacking your gold villagers, although I wouldn't advise you use them for this.

Notice that the Petsuchos has 12 Crush Damage? I tested out 3 Petsuchos against an Oranos Manor, but it really wasn't worth the effort. The crocs do more damage then a Manticore or Satyr would, but it's really not worth using them for seige unless you're finishing an enemy off or you need ranged seige to take out nearby buildings while you're at a stand off.

Unless you have the:

Crocodopolis upgrade:

Petusuchos are now called Petsuchos Ra
+ 6 Range
+ 4 LOS

This now gives the Petsuchos a masimum range of an impressive 26. Not only does this give them an advantage over long ranged units like the CA, Arcus and Chieroballista, but it means they will outrange towers and other fortified building such as the Palace and Migdol Stronghold.
This gives the Petsuchos a great new way to harrass the enemy. Because the Egyptians don't receive any ranged seige weapons until the Mythic Age, the Petsuchos can actually be used as a sort of seige. In a stand off, keep the Petsuchos behind your towers and buildings, and attack the enemy's towers or fortified buildings. Against the Norse it may not be wise due to the fact that their infantry will rebuild the damage done easily, but against Greece, Egypt and Atlantis it could work well; that's if there are no heroes around.

How Eclipse affects the Petsuchos:

Original stats:
HP: 480
Speed: 3.60
Hack Armour: 40%
Pierce Armour: 44%
Crush Damage: 12
Pierce Damage: 55

Eclipsed stats:
HP: 480
Speed: 4.32
Hack Armour: 49%
Pierce Armour: 44%
Crush Damage: 12
Pierce Damage: 82

Now that's one beefed up unit. An amazing 82 attack per hit, or 27 per second; not too shabby at all. Eclipse is definitely worth saving for the Petsuchos, instead of getting it just for Ancestors. If you've massed a few of these crocs, I'd definitely say you should cast Eclipse with a large assault with your army and Petsuchos. Without a lot of heroes (especially ranged) you should do some serious damage to your enemy with these lazer-crocs

Further Notes

The Petsuchos defeats all Heroic and Classical units one on one except for:
Jarl (even though it was very close)
War Elephant

The Petsuchos is defeated by all Heroic heroes (including all Atlantean heroes and the Heroic Priest)

The Petsuchos defeats the following Heroic MUs one on one:

  • Manticore
  • Dryad
  • Satyr
  • Stymphalian Bird

    The Petsuchos is defeated one on one by the following Heroic MUs:

  • Battle Boar
  • Hydra
  • Frost Giant
  • Mountain Giant
  • Scorpion Man
  • Nemean Lion
  • Behemoth
  • Scarab

    But with Eclipse, it defeats all other Heroic MUs one on one except for:

  • Nemean Lion
  • Frost Giant

    Petsuchos are affected by:

  • Medusa Stone Gaze
  • Perseus Stone Gaze
  • Mummy's Minion Change
  • Argus' Toxic Acid
  • Lampades' Chaos
  • Frost Giant's Ice Breath

    Suggested Usage

    Petsuchos are much more versatile than Scarabs, and a lot more powerful than Scorpion Men. Using them as backup is their main strength, and with a meatshield of elephants or Sphinxes they're nearly unstopabble. With ther extra range that Crocodoplis gives them, they can really sort out the CAs or Toxotes harrasing your infantry units, and can also take care of melée units pretty well themselves.

    They also can be used for raiding and a weak form of seige, although Roc drops are probably a better option. They can raid pretty nicely though. It only takes a few hits to kill a villager, and with a group of these gators you're opponents gold miners will be in chaos.

    A few Petsuchos around your main base is handy to deter raiders or scouts. But only having one or two doesn't really show the power of the crocodile at its full strength. When massed, Petsuchos are incredibley hard to touch without heroes, and can stand up to most units.

    If you do plan to mass them, the favour shouldn't really be an issue if you have enough monuments up. But don't get too carried away; at 200 gold a unit, you can end up spending a big chunk of your gold supply which could have been put to better use building TCs or Migdols.

    Another drawback of the Petsuchos, and I think their main flaw, is their recharge time to attack: 3 seconds may not seem like a long time, but when the pressure's on and you have Jarls charging towards your crocs it can seem like an eternity. If you do see enemies coming towards the gators, don't leave them to fire slowly and die, try and get back under tower fire and put them in a Roc and move them to a better position; even though the Petsuchos are quite tough and withstanding units, they still need a meatshield to be used at their full potential.

    Conclusion

    Don't be fooled that Petsuchos are undefeatable; they're not, but IMO they are definitely Egypt's best heroic, and aside from the Mummy, possibly Egypt's strongest MU alltogether. When massed and used as support units they can cause nightmares for your enemy, who is trying to shoot them down with all the ranged units they can find. When used to raid, you can say goodbye to the enemy's miners and wood choppers. When used against towers, the crocs do ok, and you might as well take advantage of the undefended buildings when their arrows are out of your Petsuchos' range.

    Just don't think that Petsuchos will be able to defeat anything the opponent throws at you. Heroes will eat them up for breakfast and most other units will do the same if they get the chance. Luckily due to the Petsuchos range this shouldn't be too much of a problem against units like the Scorpion Man or Battle Boar if there are units blocking the enemy's path.

    Against Greece: Mass them to take care of their heavily armoured and high-HPed units. They also work nicely against Hades' Sentinels and Poseidon's Milita. Just mind out for Bellerophon, Perseus and the Greek ranged Heroes unless you want your crocs to turn into handbags.
    Against Egypt: Not the best civ to use Petsuchos against due to their ranged priests who can take them out easily. Also War elephants are extremely hard to take down with Petsuchos. Use them to take care of weak infantry and archer units, but don't mass too many.
    Against Norse: Perfect against Loki/Heimdall tower spammers, and very nice to raid Thor's dwarves. Also use them for great clashes between your armies for extra support. Just mind out for fast Jarls, Trolls and high pierce armour Huskarls
    Against Alantis: Nice to raid a small group of Atlantean wood cutters who have strayed too far from home. But if the Atlantean opponent has a Valor or decides to start massing ranged heroes, your crocs are in BIG trouble.

    Costing only 15 favour you'd think the Petsuchos would have a major flaw; well it does have a few - slow, recharge time - but balancing that against their amazing attack and accuracy, there's no contest. Along with Rocs, Petsuchos are the main reason for choosing Hathor as a heroic god. Is it worth having a few techs which improve the already powerful Egyptian seige or having getting an army of units that are slaughtered by heroes and only last a minute when you could use these lazer-crocs for pretty much any task you want your MU to do? I'll let you decide

    Thanks for reading the guide guys.

    Next week ManticoreKiller will be doing a guide on another Greek or Norse unit. The Shade is winning so far which certainly will be an interesting read. The week after I will be continuing with the Egyptian MUs

    Please vote for the Egyptian Myth Unit I should do in 2 weeks:


      Sphinx
      Anubite
      Leviathan/Roc
      Avenger
      Mummy
      War Turtle

    EDIT: Changed a few colours, and a big thank you to HeavenGames for the pictures!
    Also changed stupid mistakes and added the range. I had it written down on my bit of paper but forgot to add it in Thanks RazyCay for noticing.


    ESO user name - ChimeraArtemis
    Favourite Major Gods: Isis, Hades, Gaia, Loki, Ra, Thor

    Creator of the Egyptian Myth Unit Guides - Phoenix, Wadjet, Scorpion Man, Scarab, Petsuchos
    And the Atlantean Myth Unit Guides: Stymphalian Bird, Satyr, Lampades, Heka-Gigantes, Man O'War, Dryad, Automaton

    [This message has been edited by ChimeraArtemis (edited 04-05-2004 @ 06:59 AM).]

  • Replies:
    posted 05 April 2004 01:32 PM EDT (US)     76 / 100  
    I think what people are saying is that we would like you to do more then just have one lazer croc fight a hoplite and call that informative. You seem very eggy savy. You know full well how to use the lazer croc, then. You park them behind elephants/spears and protect them with chariots.

    Why not, then, compare an equal pop heroic army (no upgrades to keep it simple), of eggy with 3 crocs, 3 elephants, 5 chariots and 2 priests (or something like that) vs variations of armies you would tend to meet in heroic age from different civs (give them all equivalent pop.)

    For example, a heroic age greek army will usually consist of peltasts, hoplites, toxotes, prodromos and hippikons. Perhaps throw a myth unit in there as well. A norse army will consist of Jarls, TA, RC and huskarls (throw a frost giant in there as well)

    You get the idea. These would actually be usefull tests because they show you that adding a certain myth unit (or 2 or 3) will make your army more battle effective then an equal pop army of your opponent.

    Thats a lot to ask, but I think if you concentrated your efforts on just those tests rather then all the other stuff you do, you would spend about the same amount of time and give much more useful information.

    For example, I have been massing mummies lately in some games. Its a riot. Why not show an example army with 4 mummies, 10 chariots and a few eles vs an equal pop mythic enemy army. Then, try the test over with eclipse. Its really something to watch and I think people's eyes would be opened to the mummie's power with tests like that.

    posted 05 April 2004 01:46 PM EDT (US)     77 / 100  
    Mummy

    I think FOG.
    posted 05 April 2004 03:18 PM EDT (US)     78 / 100  

    Quote:

    These are unit guides. They describe most aspects of the unit themselves. If I didn't include the one on one results, I guarantee you someone would want to know how the unit did against another unit one on one. Something along the lines of "How does the Petsuchos do against the Manticore?" etc.

    But the point is, why would you want to know that? When will that happen? Now of course you could say that it gives an idea of how well the unit does, but couldn't you just simply have something like "Petsuchos beats Manticore, 200 HP left", and leave out all the excess text and pictures?

    Quote:


    From doing these guides I've learned a lot about MUs. For example, I'm not going to waste my time using Satyr's.

    I disagree though; Satyrs are decent vs. normal units, but the main reason to make them is because they get an attack bonus vs. MUs. Heroic on, Atlanteans have a tough time getting heroes, so they need to rely on their MUs to take out other MUs.

    Quote:

    And being an expert isn't all knowledge, it's being able to play the game well and effectively.

    I'd consider it 50-50 importance. You can have perfect micro abilites but know very little about the game itself, and thus be a bad player.

    And what badger says is exactly correct; you should really test using situations as near as possible to reality.

    posted 05 April 2004 04:35 PM EDT (US)     79 / 100  
    [b/]mummy[b]
    nice guide!

    "Play the game,
    but don't let the game play you" -me

    We are the Noobs Eternal: We shall conquer the world
    Rating: 1620 (finnaly in 1600's)
    Eso ID: Lordie_Fadawah
    posted 05 April 2004 04:36 PM EDT (US)     80 / 100  
    oh come on what did I do wrong now?!

    "Play the game,
    but don't let the game play you" -me

    We are the Noobs Eternal: We shall conquer the world
    Rating: 1620 (finnaly in 1600's)
    Eso ID: Lordie_Fadawah
    posted 05 April 2004 05:04 PM EDT (US)     81 / 100  
    posted 06 April 2004 01:42 AM EDT (US)     82 / 100  
    Great guide, I vote Anubite
    posted 06 April 2004 03:12 AM EDT (US)     83 / 100  
    well done great guide once again and nice to see some
    illustrations in there too.

    this week, the elite greek votes for
    *DRUM ROLL PLEASE*

    AVENGER
    AVENGER
    AVENGER


    -----MOLON LAVE-----
    posted 06 April 2004 07:49 AM EDT (US)     84 / 100  
    mummy
    Yes success!

    "Play the game,
    but don't let the game play you" -me

    We are the Noobs Eternal: We shall conquer the world
    Rating: 1620 (finnaly in 1600's)
    Eso ID: Lordie_Fadawah

    [This message has been edited by The Hunter666 (edited 04-06-2004 @ 07:49 AM).]

    posted 06 April 2004 10:02 AM EDT (US)     85 / 100  
    I'll vote for leviathan.
    posted 06 April 2004 02:12 PM EDT (US)     86 / 100  
    Nice guide
    I'd like to see what you can do about the Leviathans and Rocs
    posted 06 April 2004 05:00 PM EDT (US)     87 / 100  
    Personally, I think people posting some of these replies don't realize that if they think the guide was not worth reading, they don't need to post harsh messages. Some people have said that experts don't bother with 1v1s, so then if you're the expert we can see of you can make a guide. The 1v1s are useful because it can show what myth units to use against other myth units that are harassing your human troops.1v1s can also be used as simple examples for countering certain units.

    Note: It's either a bug of mine, or that the pictures everybody is talking about are only the unit icons.Weird that I can't see the images.

    Edit:I already voted, just to remind you: Avenger


    Loki: I must stop eating Thor's servants for dinner!!
    Odin: Hey, at least its not like the day you took too much ex-lax!
    Loki: Don't remind me!.....URGHF!

    [This message has been edited by LoonyEvilDoer (edited 04-06-2004 @ 05:02 PM).]

    posted 06 April 2004 08:48 PM EDT (US)     88 / 100  
    Is it really worth reading these guides? I mean, its like a reserch report on an animal. Should we really be going into this much detail on just a video game? This is in fact as long as a real reserch report, even longer. I dont think ES made AOM for in-dept reserching. I just enjoy a nice game, without care. You dont remember much just by ready, you have to do it.

    Top 15 RAF Ladder: [RoR]Acamas
    "Macs are the computing equivalent of a dumb blond. " - Silk
    Formally known as Acamas, Acamas_Samaca and Hero_Acamas
    If you are interested in the [RoR] clan visit our website
    posted 06 April 2004 11:10 PM EDT (US)     89 / 100  

    Hi Athen.

    NASA dude's they talked about rocket, mosquito net etc. Teacher's daily argument is about that kid and that and that and that... Kurt Angle argue wether his 'Angle Slam' should be +25% more to the left, dog barks about life, HG Angels always talked about "WHO IS NEXT?" ...ES Sandyman with his weekly 'dodging' etc.

    Talk about RTS... You will get? WHAT? Huh...? I can't hear youuuuuuuuu! Hello are you still there...? HALLLLLOOOOOOO!

    ... Oh regards.

    posted 07 April 2004 05:54 PM EDT (US)     90 / 100  
    I vote anubite. Nice guide.

    "but first you must know your enemy if you are to defeat him..."
    -Ender's Game
    posted 07 April 2004 10:24 PM EDT (US)     91 / 100  
    Once again, a great guide. Im going with avenger

    "Wisdom begins in wonder."
    -Socrates
    posted 07 April 2004 10:34 PM EDT (US)     92 / 100  
    Personally I found the Petsuchos kinda weak. That and I always managed to somehow glitch it. Anyways I vote for the Roc.
    posted 09 April 2004 02:11 PM EDT (US)     93 / 100  
    Sphinx - 1
    Anubite - 17
    Leviathan/Roc - 5
    Avenger - 22
    Mummy - 11
    War Turtle - 2

    Voting's now closed and the guide next week will be on the Avenger

    Quote:

    I think what people are saying is that we would like you to do more then just have one lazer croc fight a hoplite and call that informative. You seem very eggy savy. You know full well how to use the lazer croc, then. You park them behind elephants/spears and protect them with chariots.

    I understand that you want more info then the unit tests, which is why I actually do have more information. The unit tests are purely there for statistical purposes and for me to see what units the MU does best against. I never claimed that part was strategy.

    Quote:

    But the point is, why would you want to know that? When will that happen? Now of course you could say that it gives an idea of how well the unit does, but couldn't you just simply have something like "Petsuchos beats Manticore, 200 HP left", and leave out all the excess text and pictures?

    Actually I put it more simply than that, and the colours are used because I like them....

    Quote:

    Is it really worth reading these guides? I mean, its like a reserch report on an animal.

    If that's your opinion then there's one simple solution; don't read them

    After reading many responses similar to "This isn't strategy; it's just tests" I have decided to include more detail in the guides concerning groups, armies and more suggested usage. However, unit tests and 1v1 results will still be included because I feel they are still important, even if others do not. Yes this means they'll take more time and energy from me, which means less game-time. Hopefully I'll be on a lot during the week.

    Also we need a new Greek/Norse MU Guide writer, after the sad news that Manticore is leaving AoM for a while. Anybody is welcome to write them, but if you just want to get on the front page; don't bother. They need to be well written, clear and you have to have taken some time to write them, otherwise you'll be flamed (see previous examples; it's not pretty)

    Good luck


    ESO user name - ChimeraArtemis
    Favourite Major Gods: Isis, Hades, Gaia, Loki, Ra, Thor

    Creator of the Egyptian Myth Unit Guides - Phoenix, Wadjet, Scorpion Man, Scarab, Petsuchos
    And the Atlantean Myth Unit Guides: Stymphalian Bird, Satyr, Lampades, Heka-Gigantes, Man O'War, Dryad, Automaton

    [This message has been edited by ChimeraArtemis (edited 04-09-2004 @ 02:13 PM).]

    posted 11 April 2004 11:28 AM EDT (US)     94 / 100  
    Well done. I vote Anubite

    Do not think that you think,
    Because if you think that you think,
    You just think that you think.
    posted 11 April 2004 01:38 PM EDT (US)     95 / 100  
    The damage system seemed to always be confusing, but I think I know how it works.

    This got something to do with the animation of the unit while it is attacking. For melee units, the damage aren't really dealt when the animation shows that the unit's sword/spear/hand/whatever is shown hitting the target, but by an attack tagged to a sequence of the animation. So if the attacks are tagged to more than one sequence of the animation, the damage dealt will be more too.

    This apply to the Heka Gigantes where there are two attack tagged to the same sequence of the animation, exactly when the animation already runs about 58% of it so the damage dealt is twice of what listed. The above also means that eventhough the unit is shown lifting hand ready to hit, it maybe already dealing it's damage to the target.

    As for ranged unit, tagging another attack will make the unit fires another set of projectiles listed in the proto.

    These animation also have their own length. In the case of the Petsuchos, the animation lasted somewhere around 3 seconds.

    posted 13 April 2004 02:09 AM EDT (US)     96 / 100  
    D161 dude.

    HPS (Hit Per Second) > FRPS (Frame Rate Per Second)

    Occasionally HPS overide FRPS due to stress in 3D graphics meaning attack tagged based on unit 'cooling off' period and only then animation comes next. HPS value constant (based on real time) and FRPS subjected numerous affecting 'outside' value i.e graphic card, processors, hot-wiring etc.

    (OT) Slower PC may experience greater ">" value due to weak 'outside' VS 'above PC minimum requirement' -- server's will experience more 'task' in synchronizing amongst plugged-PC's or risk abrupt termination of play sometimes crash. Get P4 with 'Hyper-Threading'.

    ...

    posted 13 April 2004 11:09 AM EDT (US)     97 / 100  
    --King Of The Hill--
    Sorry, but I can't really get what did you mean.
    posted 14 April 2004 08:59 AM EDT (US)     98 / 100  
    (Quote) "for melee units, the damage aren't really dealt when the animation shows that the unit's weapon is shown hitting the target"

    I'm stating the reason behind it also slower PC may experience more of these.

    ...

    posted 14 April 2004 11:11 AM EDT (US)     99 / 100  
    Oh, I see.
    posted 15 April 2004 07:31 AM EDT (US)     100 / 100  
    Anubite! Anubite! Anubite!
    (does this count as 3 votes?)

    Time is like a drug - too much of it kills you
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