The main difference between Battle of Wesnoth and the rest of turn-based strategy games is not really a mechanics, but the balance. All the units have quite weak defence and huge random factor in the attack, so a weakest unit always have a good chance to kill maximum level unit. The random factor dominate unit-to-unit combat and make high-level units vulnerables to hordes of low-level units. So if you have attachment to elite units as opposite to mass-producing tons of weak units the game can be extremly frustrating (in single player). Also the game is very hard for newbies. An "easy" level for this game correspond to "hard" level of the other games, and the difference between easy medium and hard not as big. Many people love this game, but it has very specific appeal, and defenitly not for everyone.

[This message has been edited by sdx (edited 12-29-2004 @ 05:28 AM).]

Quoted from sdx:

It's true but with the ZOC you can reduce the casualties.
As it's hard to keep you pipeline of fresh troops feeded, an horde of low-level is unlikely unless you're in a bad position.

Quoted from sdx:

Well if you used to play stategic game (with the ZOC concept) it's not so hard.
As the AI is not very smart (ie don't move its units by groups) you can level quite easily and this is a BIG advantage.

Quoted from sdx:

well I've tried directly the med level with no real problem.
My bigest surprise was about the turns limits as i like crush my ennemy with big armies and the recrutment system, but it's like Fantasy General.

Quoted from sdx:

Definitively true!
Anyway the game worth a try (at least). Not so complex as dom2 quite quick game and rich strategics backgrounds...

[This message has been edited by golem (edited 12-29-2004 @ 06:04 AM).]

So far, I like it. A little hard (but when's the last time I've played anything remotely similar?), but good.

I've been playing BfW for about a year now. It is an excellent game, far deeper than it seems at first, and it is REALLY difficult. The AI is superb. Great community, too.

Thanks for the information Golem,

I installed the game yesterday and played if for some hours. It is very intertesting. Here a brief summary of my first day of playing:

- it is a very easy to learn game
- it has a lot of strategy which gives this easy to learn game a lot of depth. On which pixel do you want to fight. Every unit has different defence on different underground (e.g. Elves have high defence in forests).
- so far I found it challanging which I find motivating. AoW:SM is barely a challange at all compared with this game.
- it is a fast game. A game doesn't take too long so it can be played quickly. This is something that annoys me sometimes when playing AoW:SM. The games take sooooo much time. But this game has the Warlords II feeling "Let's just play a quick game" and the game is finished in less than an hour. I can't yet say if it gets much more complex in later levels though.
- I like that you can keep units from previous missions and recall them in the next ones.
- The units are pretty cool and the combat system is like Empire Earth or other games which have a seperation between piercing and shock weapons.
- There is no tactical combat but you can choose between melee and range attacks when attacking. So if you are a archer and attack an enemy melee unit, you should use the range attack because the enemy might not be able to retaliate while when using melee, our archer would be meat.
- it supports tons of languages (not all the text is translated though). Not essential but nice.
- it even considers day and night. Evil units are stronger at night, while good units are better during the day. Very cool.
- Each unit is strong on one point but has weaknesses. E.g. Cavallery can charge an enemy unit on open area to the ground but cannot defend against range attacks like bows.
- When a unit reaches a new level, it can choose in which direction it wants to go. E.g. when an archer gets a new level, it can even more specialize in archery which would be a unit with even higher range attack values but same melee values, or become a ranger which gets moderate gains in melee and range attacks. Very cool.
- The installation file is only 30MB small.
- The game has several campaigns included.
- Runs even on low-end machines very fast
- Nice sounds
- Useful and quite ok graphic. Not comparable to AoW:SM but still good.

SUMMARY: A great easy-to-learn game with a lot of strategy. Thanks. I will play more.

It was a pleasure Cherusker.
Thanks for your opinion.

I've played (or replayed) some campaigns with the latest release (0.8.8). The new available units( compared to the 0.8) make the AI smarter...
The recall option is essential as toughness of the scenarios increase when you go further...So, try to level up all the troops you can.

BTW with the 0.8.8 you can download additional campaigns from a server, (at least 10+).

Have fun.

I'm playing the first campaign now under 0.8.8...I'm in the scenario where you have to cross the river, heh.

So far, the game's been quite fun. Once I'm done with the campaigns, i'll try it MP.

Quite good. One thing, though; you think the graphics are good? Have you actually looked at the game? The units are rediculously cartoonish, in my opinion. Terrain graphics, however, is nice, true.

I like the gameplay. Simple, fun, surprisingly unrepititive, and interesting maps.

Too bad there's not a map editor.

Thanks for the heads up Golem. This is a fun game. It reminds me of an old (ancient) QQP computer game some old farts might remeber called 'Conquered Kingdoms' with some elements from other games and nicer graphics and some unique elements thrown in.

I like the cartoonish/anime graphic style of the units.

Who you callin an old fart? Just because "Conquered Kingdoms" was one of the first games I played on my 486sx25 that cost $1349 doesn't mean I'm an old fart. I expect a retraction of your statement now.

hi,
In fact with the 0.8.8 release, at least, there is a map editor.
You should be able to run it from the start menu/Wesnoth or from the directory of the game: "editor.exe"

It's prety simple and a LOT of feature are missings. Well in fact it's just good to show/create a map.

As the maps/scenarios are text files, you can add the details with a text editor. Examine the other scenarios and take a look in this section of the wiki.

Dumb maps (only terrain) are storred in \userdata\editor\maps.
Scenarios are stored in \data\scenarios\multiplayer.

BTW, each time a game is launched, stderr.txt file is created. Each map played is dumped into this file.

Have a nice day.

Quote:

Personally, I think the manga style units make this game ugly and unplayable.

Makes not to self: NO birthday, or Christmas presents for Magog this year.

It's more playable to me than HOI 2.

I had a look at the units. I found it interesting that humans generally have the same alignment that Elves and Dwarves do - although I think I understand it now. Lawfulness does not equate with goodness, but with a preference for daylight, and humans certainly are more competant during the day than during the night.

I'm going to get this game.

It's strange, Golem; I just found the editor a few hours before you posted.

The editor's not bad. Making (and playing, of course) island maps are my favourite, so far.

In any case, does anyone want to play multiplayer over their official server? I'm at GMT-9, just in case.

(My email is eternalspearman@excite.com, if anyone wants to coordinate a one vs. one game.)

I think this is a great little game. A lot of depth to it with some fantastic ideas in it which can make for a really satisfying game.

The graphics are not marvellous, that is true, however you get used to them and they certainly don't detract from the game ( I think they add a little towards it)

I strongly recomend people give it a try - the tutorial is essential and you will need to give yourself enough time to understand it but once you do, you will have a lot of fun!

I'm a convert

The game gets better and better. But unfortunatly the units can not get higher than level 3. The same demotivating limit as in SM. I love to see my units get better and better and as soon as they reach the highest level, I do not have much fun fighting with them.

But beyond that, the small little game is very nice and I play it much more than AoW:SM now. Single player games are finally a challenge again since SM is so easy. The AI of Battle of Wesnoth is very challenging, while the AoW:SM one is ..... (let's not use words for that).

Ok, AoW:SM is much more complex and therefore it is much more difficult to write a good AI code.

Ravinhood - I was basically referring to myself (old fart, with tongue in cheek ) in respect to how long I've been into strategy gaming. Embrace your 'old fartiness'!

I'm glad to hear that someone remembers QQP as they had a great line in their time and CK was a great game. I liked the move where one could teleport a wizard with all the surounding units over a long distance for a surprise attack deep in enemy territory.

I wanted to make mention of an aspect of Battle Of Wesnoth (BoW) that I think is done better than AoW. In AoW ones units, other than hero's, have a simplified experience system that works well enough, but now I see it could be better.

In BoW the units develop more of a character and uniqueness through level adavancement and the experience system is overall superior. In combat units gain 1 point (more if that unit has the 'intelligent' skill) experience each time they fight. If the unit strikes the killing blow it gains 5 points, where in AoW it's feats or famine in regards to experience: make the kill blow or get nothing. It works for AoW but could be better.

At level advancement the BoW player has an option of how the unit will specialise; a 2 choice tree. For example, an elf swordsman can either become a captain or a hero at second level. The AoW system works and is good, but I think this other system is more engrossing and I become more attached to the units as they have more character.

In the first AoW IIRC, one brought some core units along in the campaign game from chapter to chapter. This is the same in BoW and something I miss in AoW2 and AoWsm.

This attachment feeling reminds me of X-Com, where after time you have an elite group of units that have survived and excelled, in this case space marines, that are essential to future success. If one of them is lost in battle one really feels the pain of that loss.

The only reason I mention this is that AoW is my favorite game and I am aware that Triumph is in game development. Bottom line, character development and that 'attachment' feeling in fantasy strategy games is a good thing.
Cheers!

[This message has been edited by Fubarno (edited 01-12-2005 @ 04:39 PM).]

Agree. Unit development and reusing the same units in next scenarios and even naming units creates a completely new feeling instead of just another Orcish Infantery. It feels more like a fellowship that comes together every scenario and you can choose which unit to "recall" - this is how this process is being called.

And I also agree that the choice system is very good. When leveling up, you can choose if they should get more specialized or more general. E.g. when an archer gets a new level, then he can get his range attack skills improved a lot while his melee improves only little or it can become a ranger which is a jack-in-all-trades and is good in melee and range attacks compared with the marksman who is excellent in range attacks but only average in melee. Very nice.

And I also like that every unit gets XP for a battle. This is so easy to program. Every time a unit attended a battle and hit a blow, you get 1 XP. When hitting the final blow, this game gives 8XP per level of target level. This sounds like a much better system as the "winner takes it all" system of AoW and most other games who handle XPs.

In fact for each battle, the unit gain Target's level in XP. Also for the killing blow you gain Target's level*8 XP.
More info there (search the word Experience)

AI know this very well!
As you are fully healed/cured when you level up, AI don't engage troops about to level up (except when it can kill it obviously!) & engage high level troops with its nearly leveled up troops.
Also AI like gambit when one of your troop is about to level. Be warned.

Quote:

Actually, my ArchMage is gaining experience to be a lvl4. But yes, in general, units can't get past lvl3 (or 2, like griffin riders).

Yes there are a few level 4 units.

Hey Harle, are you playing online yet - if so drop me an email and we should arrange to play a game (with no simultaneous turns, things should go just fine )

An update; I've changed my email address to eternalspearman@gmail.com.

By the way, JME, could I join in as well? I'm by no means expert player, but after playing Wesnoth (some one vs. one games, and campaigns) for a few days, I feel like playing a largish multiplayer game.

[This message has been edited by Squeeky_Dragon (edited 01-13-2005 @ 11:42 PM).]

Sure, Dragon - I won't be playing it for the next week, however, after that I will give you a shout!

Hey Jamie, I'm still playing the campaign. I'll play MP once im done with it, though. I'm sure Gol and Lal will play as well.

Cheers

I'm liable to make maps with this. This looks cool!

Quoted from Harlequin:

with pleasure.

I'm playing sunday afternoon (02h00pm GMT) & sometimes at 07h00pm in the week.

BTW harle Where are you in the 1st campaigns?
I'm curently blocked in "the siege of Elensefar". 1st time not enought leveled up units 2nd time a full set of good units but no $!
This one is a real chalenge as your previous exploits are VERY important...

Have a nice day.

Oh goodness! My am I going to make maps with this!

Can't wait to see what you come up with, Beren. I think I might just do some mapmaking, too, seeing as I still can't find my SM CD. I'm considering buying a new one, because I'm starting to miss AoW.

Indeed, a very nice game! About 70% Fantasy General and 30% Warlords. The music is 100% Atari video console, but you can always mute it and play mp3's in the background.

The strategic AI is a little simplistic so far. It reminds me of the old Battle Isle games, where you get the huge rush at the beginning. If you survive that you usually just have to mop up some stragglers and accomplish the scenario goals. In the Merman scenario, I got overrun the first time. The second time around I bought my Units in a different order and the AI also changed it's Unit allocation. I wonder if it was reacting to my purchases or if it was making it easier for me intentionally.

On a tactical level the AI is pretty good. Deciding which Units to attack, what works well in a given battle, taking advantage of fortifications, all this works well enough.

I have just beaten up the Undead in the "go over land" branch, I think that's campaign scenario #4. I'll be playing this for a while, I'm sure.

I'd definitely recommend this to anyone who likes TBS games. It's free and it's easy to learn, so if you have a couple hours to spare give this one a try!

[This message has been edited by ZombieEater (edited 01-31-2005 @ 06:34 PM).]