The rules

• Check your email before posting!
  
• Votes must be in bold. If you do not bold your vote, it will not be counted (unless I'm feeling nice).
  
• Please be attentive and unvote, if necessary, before casting a new vote.
  
• Impeachments will require a simple majority of votes. Once a player has reached the necessary majority, his pleas are useless and any attempts to unvote will be unheeded. You may vote: no lynch – majority votes of this kind are necessary to end the day without a death.
  
• The game is not to be discussed outside of the thread unless your role specifically states that you may do so.
  
• Once your death scene has been posted, you’re dead. Stop typing. I don't mind an "I'm dead" post, but please, nothing beyond that.
  
• Don’t edit/delete previously submitted posts
  
• Don’t quote any emails.
  
• If you have a night choice to make, it is due by the posted deadline. I will not wait for you – if you do not submit a choice to me, tough luck. If your role is important to the structure of the game, I will randomly pick a target. If you have an action, but don't wish to use it, a 'nothing' email would be appreciated.
  
• If you anticipate being unavailable for more than a 48-hour period, please post a notice to that effect in the thread. Treat this game as a commitment (however unimportant in the scheme of things it might be). Be considerate – don’t leave us hanging.
  
• You have 60 hours from the time of my "it's now night" post to submit night actions.
  
• Remember, it’s a game. It’s supposed to played. It’s supposed to be fun. So, have fun, and ask if you have questions.
  
• I am god.

As the Senate session began, many Senators were missing. Some were back home campaigning for elections (‘getting paid’), others were visiting foreign countries (‘getting paid’), and still more were out of the office for the day (‘getting paid’). 16 Senators remained, determined to pass legislation that would save the country. Unfortunately they simply couldn’t agree on what to do. Some were in favor of raising taxes, others in favor of decreasing taxes. Still more wanted to balance the budget, cutting social services and education. Others knew that such cuts would be silly. And so, the Senators spent the day talking. Sometimes they read to the other Senators from archaic books to pass the time (and to prevent legislation from being passed), and sometimes they slept at their desks. Then it was time to go home.

The Senators went home, and had dinners with their mistresses and their wives, before retiring to bed. After their dinners, some Senators excused themselves, disappearing for a few hours into the dark of the night. And then, the next morning, they headed to the Senate. When they arrived, one Senator was already there. Dead. Written in blood next to his body were the words, “This is not what politics should be like. This man - and all the rest of you - are damned!” And damned this man was, doomed to spend the rest of his life in eternity.

THYMOLE, playing Richard Durbin, a Democrat mason cop, has been brutally murdered.

It is now day. 8 for a lynch.

[This message has been edited by Adder (edited 04-25-2011 @ 06:20 PM).]

Not good.

Thymole?
Not surprising.
Bet someone from Cold War mafia behind this, saw Thymole as a risk, and zapped him.

Erm, who can be scum here? Quick info session abouT Republicans and Democrats for non-US people?

Well Demos are basically Liberal and favor of bigger government while Republicans are generally conservative and in favor of smaller government.

Here ya go Gillie
http://www.diffen.com/difference/Democrat_vs_Republican

Nuts

That's two in a row

Well, I'm not an American so I'm happy to be corrected on this.

The Democrats and Republicans are the two tribes in US politics and are the rival who contest elections. I'm not sure how ideologically different they really are. As far as the game is concerned, I don't see why our party affiliations are important.

The US Senate comprises two senators from each state with approximately equal numbers from both parties. The flavour text seems to be telling us that everyone is playing one of these senators. It sounds likely to me that everyone is representing different states.

The question of who the scum are is a little mysterious. If we're all senators, it'd have to be some kind of rogue group of senators. Perhaps junior, recently elected senators? The flavour text suggests the murderer is angry with how the senate works. This could be a new senator who's disappointed to discover that the senate is a bunch of decadent old bastards who just piss about all day.

I was hoping it just wasnt me that had that question Don.

While I have no proof the detail of my own flavor and this game in general makes me think Adder is a man of detail and... we've left out a big group in this Mafia. The Independents are a third party in the States no?

Each year its the Republicans/Democrats/Independents.

I dont think we can name claim because a simple Google search would turn up our party. Without the knowledge of the other Victory conditions. Just my thoughts so far.

This is a prime example of a game where name claiming is essentially useless. I sincerely hope we won't see any argument about John McCain making sense for a Tracker, or what have you.

This is a prime example of a game where name claiming is essentially useless. I sincerely hope we won't see any argument about John McCain making sense for a Tracker, or what have you.

I kind of disagree with you there. Dick Durbin was/is the second highest ranking democrat in the senate, serving as the minority whip from 2007-20010 (A position I thought was reserved for the House)
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dick_Durbin

It would strike me that Durbin+Harry Reid would make for excellent candidates for mason group

The United States is dominated by two-party politics. There are independent parties that spring up, but the Democratic and Republican parties virtually always come out on top. There's been only one presidential election where an independent party politician received more votes than one of the major two parties. I've never seen more than one independent politician in the Senate in my life. So, I doubt there will be any Independents here in the game.

As was already stated, the Republican party represents the conservative government. They're in favor of minimal national government control of local and state issues, and they favor relatively unregulated private business, believing that close government control is inefficient. Also, Republicans are often more sympathetic the moral argument of an issue, and many Christians are Republicans as a result.

The Democratic party represents liberal government, with a more powerful national government, since they believe that the national government is really the only one that can cause effective changes across the country. To solve social problems, they often support solutions of a more socialist nature, though not as much as a number of European countries. In general, though not unanimously, they view moral arguments as an impediment to progress and equality.

I hope that description is accurate and gives both parties justice.

As to how the parties have an impact on the game, I'm not entirely sure. I doubt that Adder assigned one party as scum and the other party as town. My sense was that the Senate is town, and a small group of aggressive politicians are the mafia. According to my role email, I'm guessing that the parties are unimportant until a war occurs in the Senate. Then, only one party can win.

I dont think we can name claim because a simple Google search would turn up our party. Without the knowledge of the other Victory conditions. Just my thoughts so far.

I kind of disagree with you there. Dick Durbin was/is the second highest ranking democrat in the senate, serving as the minority whip from 2007-20010 (A position I thought was reserved for the House)

Judging from Thymole's role and my role, it seems like many of the characters will be the more important politicians. However, there are so many senators to choose from that it would be very easy for the mafia to come up with a fakeclaim. I doubt even random voting would be that effective in this game. Since the game is just starting, I say we let everyone arrive and post their opinions of what happened or any thoughts they have. We might have a direction we can go from there.

From the night post, the mafia seem to be composed of senators who are tired of the filibusters and the slow progress of the Senate. From current events, such as approving the 2011 budget, I would've assumed that these men would've been Democrats, but Thymole's character was a Democrat. At the moment, I'm guessing that the mafia includes men of both political parties, but that's hardly certain.

Is it possible that the game is balanced similarly to Von's old Chess Mafia, with two fairly even and competing sides?

It would make sense, given that American politics is basically split down the middle right/left.

That wouldn't explain the one kill; although I think one kill isn't enough and wouldn't be surprised if there was a failed kill out there somewhere... either a doc or RBer got lucky.

Ferrets suggestion makes sense to me, But how would lynches work with even teams. I dont quite understand that part.

My take so far is that the Independent Party(s) are probably survivors, or at least third-party.
Another possibility is that all the Senators are town and the mafia are lobbyists or something like that.
Very likely that it won't be too confusing, but I don't think we can jump to any conclusions too quickly.
Especially since we're not sure what the structure is.
Reading through the thread so far, Reid sounds like he could be Thymole's mason, but I don't think we can assume that yet.
I agree that it would be a good idea for everyone to stop in and share before we try making to many conclusions.
Considering the flavor, it seems like there's a possibility that we may see non-senators or at the very least senators who dislike the current state of affairs, as has been suggested earlier.
K' I think that's all for now.

Oh, and I suggest that people clarify their factions with Adder.
It might clear things up a little.
I've already got a few suspicions, but I'll wait a little before voicing them.

There has been select confusion with some of you about your win conditions. If my email to you was confusing at all, I suggest you email me and I will specify more specifically. I am happy to answer any questions, though my answer may be somewhat cryptic if you pry too far into the game mechanics. One thing I have clarified that is general knowledge: everyone has an alignment.

Hmmm... One kill seems strange for a 16 player mafia. If the two politcal parties were two different sides, I'd expect one person on both sides to be killed. Though theferret could be right, a doc or a roleblocker could be the case. If we have a roleblocker, I'd suggest roleblocking the same person to block a kill again (but I havn't played before so I'm not sure about this).

I do not find it implausible that there is currently only one scum kill in the game. If 'war' breaks out that would change the character of the game dramatically, and probably make it much harder for anyone who isn't scum to start with to win. The game may look deceptively gentle at this point. Adder didn't specify a failed kill, although it's possible he just doesn't do that.

Quoted from Muzta:

I kind of disagree with you there.

If you jeopardise the chances of everyone whose interests you share by going claim-crazy again so help me I will vig you at every opportunity for the rest of time. In this case your speculation may well be right but if you start 'analysing' claims and voting for people because you think their Senator sounds a bit scummy you will just be a liability.

According to my role email, I'm guessing that the parties are unimportant until a war occurs in the Senate

If 'war' breaks out that would change the character of the game dramatically, and probably make it much harder for anyone who isn't scum to start with to win.

My question is, what is this war?
Even my role mail talks about this, certain war breaking out in Senate.


And no, name claim won't help here. Out of question.

I think the kill here was done by an SK, since an anti-government SK fits the description of who would kill in such a way and write that message. I don't really know though.

Also, in the games I've looked at, there is usually a random vote stage, where people vote randomly, so I will do exactly that.

Vote: Abhass Peragil for being the first poster

Dude, really?


I'd bring to your attention this,

I doubt even random voting would be that effective in this game. Since the game is just starting, I say we let everyone arrive and post their opinions of what happened or any thoughts they have.

Just 9 out of the present 15 have posted. I'd think its better we wait for the others to post, and unless we get some lead, then we proceed to random voting.

Unvotethen

To be honest I've never really seen the point of random voting. It's something to do when we run out of ideas but it's a bit half-arsed as a strategy.

Quoted from ferret:

Is it possible that the game is balanced similarly to Von's old Chess Mafia, with two fairly even and competing sides?

Does your win condition refer to your party affiliation?

This game seems very complicated. My guess is that the kill was done by an SK or something, and that there are very few scum members this early on because of this "war" that might happen.

Maybe there are even no mafia in this game.

If you jeopardise the chances of everyone whose interests you share by going claim-crazy again so help me I will vig you at every opportunity for the rest of time. In this case your speculation may well be right but if you start 'analysing' claims and voting for people because you think their Senator sounds a bit scummy you will just be a liability.

Keep ignoring basic logic and refuse to make a role claim, see how far that gets you this time

I'm not going to rise to that, because I will explain in that thread why you were wrong, when that game is finished. If that game is representative you are a dreadful liability as a townie. I'm only not voting for you now because I suspect my judgement is clouded and it is possible that you have a useful role.

It was probably the SK who killed Thymole as he was BRUTALLY murdered. And I belive there is no mafia just two different parties who want the other parties dead. And maybe third parties like SK,survivers,etc. Sad we lost a mason cop as his friend mason could have confirmed him and prevented a lynch. The only advantage that this has done is that now if someone claims a 'Mason Doctor' or 'Mason Rolebloker' we will not think it a strange claim and lynch a powerful town role (If there is a town that is).Though scum might take advantage of this. At this mode of the game we can only confirm ourselfs.Random lynches and mass role claims are of no use. And what is this 'WAR' that everybody is discussing about? When will it happen? any idea anyone?

Mason doctors or mason roleblockers are fairly unusual roles. Why did you use them as examples?

I think the idea of an SK being Mole's killer seems reasonable. I don't much like these early debates about game mechanics. Maybe I just haven't played enough games to feel comfortable speculating on game setup. I cannot offer any particular insight on setup or mechanics without more information.

I'm curious what may trigger this "war" that was mentioned and what changes it would make to the game.

I don't think the scum will be designated by particular parties. I suspect we have a nearly even split of Dems and Reps, like the current US Senate. (If that is the model, there may be one more Dem than Rep.) The current RL US Senate includes 51 Dems, 47 Reps, and 2 Indies.

Adder didn't specify a failed kill, although it's possible he just doesn't do that.

That is correct.

Nameclaiming right now is nearly useless. There are 100 senators, and 16 of us. The odds of scum successfully picking a senator that isn't in the game are ridiculously high, and that's assuming that the scum aren't already senators. We also cannot determine if a claim is good or bad or anything else because we don't know what criteria the scum have. They could be junior senators, radical senators, conservative senators, independent senators, or not senators. Each possibility places a different group of senators as scummy, and we don't know which it is.

So, a mass nameclaim won't help us, at least not unless and until we get a scummy, which will give us something to go on. Even then, it will be very easy to fakeclaim. Muzta, please don't accuse Julius of trying to hide something simply because he has a grain of common sense. Nameclaims are simply not a viable option (yet).

On another note, I'm suspicious of Ferret and Diamond Diamondo, and a little less of Ville. They posted things already that make me suspicious. Once everyone has posted, I'll elaborate.

And also,

Quoted from Adder:

Adder didn't specify a failed kill, although it's possible he just doesn't do that.

That is correct.

Which is correct? The fact that you didn't specify a failed kill last night or that you do not specify any failed kills?

Would I tell you the former if the latter were true? I don't post anything aside from successful kills.

I used them as examples as we had a mason cop which I have never heard of so there can be such roles.
And Sarn suspicious of me? why?

So, a mass nameclaim won't help us, at least not unless and until we get a scummy, which will give us something to go on. Even then, it will be very easy to fakeclaim. Muzta, please don't accuse Julius of trying to hide something simply because he has a grain of common sense. Nameclaims are simply not a viable option (yet).

I would like to know how you could possibly take that away from what I said

Quoted from Muzta:

Keep ignoring basic logic and refuse to make a role claim, see how far that gets you this time

You're claiming he's ignoring basic logic, and implying that by refusing to claim, he has something to hide (like last time), when in fact, he is actually correct in his conclusions. I'm not saying you're suspicious because of it, I'm just saying that you were unnecessarily making something personal and making some unwarranted assumptions.

Diamond, I'll explain once everyone has posted, as I said earlier.

@ Adder - It was worth a shot Thank you for the confirmation.

So, we may have multiple killing factions. I agree that the RB(s) should block the same people, but don't announce yourself yet. In fact, don't announce anything unless and until we get confirmation that there are actually 2 (or more) killing factions. Otherwise, a townie could get lynched because he was blocked and there was no kill.

In other news, keep the players coming. I think we only have about half(?) so far.

Just to remind everyone everywhere that I will start posting normally in 4-5 hours.

Quoted from Sarn:

Very likely that it won't be too confusing, but I don't think we can jump to any conclusions too quickly.
Especially since we're not sure what the structure is.

Agreed.

To be honest I've never really seen the point of random voting. It's something to do when we run out of ideas but it's a bit half-arsed as a strategy.

Random voting is really only useful when it's placed on a player who is slightly suspicious in some way, or there is something about the player that spikes everyone's interest. If there isn't a risk of the pressured player getting lynched, a player can rightfully blow it off without consequence, like Gil did.

I think the idea of an SK being Mole's killer seems reasonable. I don't much like these early debates about game mechanics. Maybe I just haven't played enough games to feel comfortable speculating on game setup. I cannot offer any particular insight on setup or mechanics without more information.

Well, at the beginning of the game there isn't much else to discuss, besides the night writeup. I find them okay as long as players don't settle on one possible setup, because that can leave players blind to other possibilities and be more vulnerable to whatever plans the scum could come up with. Once the game is going, it's not usually an important thing to discuss.

About the SK being the killer, it does seem to fit, but there could just as easily have been another kill that was unsuccessful, so there's still a lot of possibilities out there.

Also, Muzta, I hope now that you've seen enough reasons now that claiming won't be a very good option in this game, at least with the very limited information we have right now. Even in normal games, claims can be somewhat blinding if a player tries to decipher scum from the list of claims already out there. There are games where hosts give scum players safeclaims, or the host might have decided to use a more obscure character. Thus, it sometimes allows a town player to be lynched when their behavior is good, or it allows a scum player to slip by. In my opinion, the game is a lot more about analyzing behavior than analyzing claims, though only focusing on behavior can be bad too.

Due to Adder not mentioning failed kills the SK theory is a bit more unlikely but still very plausible.

I only brought up random voting because knowing the game setup benefits the mafia as well as the town after a while, (so they will know to look for and kill SK's, mutiple mafias etc.) and discussing the game setup isn't going to help us find who we're meant to lynch, wherever it a Mafia, SK etc. while random voting gives us some scumtells and simulates disscussion. Although disscussing the game setup at the start is very useful (which is why I suggested the SK theory) it doesn't help directly to kill those scum while at least random voting gives us a few scumtells. I now see why random voting won't work in this game though.

On another note, I'm suspicious of Ferret and Diamond Diamondo, and a little less of Ville. They posted things already that make me suspicious. Once everyone has posted, I'll elaborate.

Sarn is always suspicious of me Lmao.

Would I tell you the former if the latter were true? I don't post anything aside from successful kills.

So I'd say its very likely we have two killing parties at least. 16 Man Mafia, with 2 kills a night, 1 lynch during the day. That sounds about right no?

So any healers could random heal tonight and all Roleblocks the same. Then we could see from 2 nights of blocks and the results. If there is two kills then those people blocked would be cleared? Does that make sense?

Also I had a thought about the nameclaim thing I mean to post in the last post.

We cant even narrow it down to 100 Senators because alot of senators serve more than one 2 year term. So just knowing the year of election there could be hundreds of different combinations. Maybe after we figure out more about the party system we can use it but still a name claim is pretty useless.

Roleclaiming towards the late game would be helpful thou. But thats way down the road from now.

We cant even narrow it down to 100 Senators because alot of senators serve more than one 2 year term. So just knowing the year of election there could be hundreds of different combinations. Maybe after we figure out more about the party system we can use it but still a name claim is pretty useless.

I'm pretty sure this game is taken from the present time, so there would still be 100 to choose from. All US senators have 6-year terms, but new senators aren't elected all at once. 33 senators are elected every three years.

Roleclaiming towards the late game would be helpful thou. But thats way down the road from now.

Roleclaiming will be useful, yes, and that's the time when I favor claiming. I doubt nameclaiming will ever be useful during this game though. We can't even be sure if Harry Reid is in this game, though it seems likely.

Harry Reid is in this game, though it seems likely.

If the chap who suggested Reid will be here, is correct, then Mole's partner would be him. BUt I'd say he stay covered. We don't want to give the scum a confirmed townie.

Quoted from Ville:

Sarn is always suspicious of me Lmao.

Not quite always; MK mafia was a good one, aside from that one though...yeah, pretty much.

Quoted from offwo:

Although disscussing the game setup at the start is very useful (which is why I suggested the SK theory) it doesn't help directly to kill those scum while at least random voting gives us a few scumtells. I now see why random voting won't work in this game though.

How is discussing the game setup useful? I thought you just said that it helped the mafia.

(I'm new, so nothing I say makes sense.)It does help town in foiling fakecalims made by scum. But too much and the scum will be able to target PRs instead of townies and there is no point in knowing they exist if they're dead. (*hopes that makes sense*)

Damn Lief youre right. 2 Years is house, Im so silly.

It would make sense theyre all the presently elected members.
Too bad thats still too many to be useful.

Sounds like we still dont have much, but we do have a night plan! Or at least part of one so thats a plus.

**Sits to wait.

And thus we wait for the few that havent posted.

Quoted from Lief:

Random voting is really only useful when it's placed on a player who is slightly suspicious in some way, or there is something about the player that spikes everyone's interest. If there isn't a risk of the pressured player getting lynched, a player can rightfully blow it off without consequence, like Gil did.

I wouldn't call that situation random anymore but, pedantry aside, I agree.

It's sensible to wait and let everyone have a chance to say something. By my reckoning, we're still yet to hear from:
Herr Elessar (pretty much anyway), Henrz and GillB.

Of course the thread's only been up a day so people could easily have got bogged down with having a life or some such nonsense.

I wouldn't call that situation random anymore but, pedantry aside, I agree.

True, it's not random anymore. Whenever I see someone random vote, I usually think they have a reason, but they're not ready to lynch them for it. It's like an FoS but with teeth.

I've been reading the thread but, tbh, have nothing useful to add. I'm kind of agreeing there may not be scum as such ... but I think we'll have to wait for the game to pan out a bit more to be certain of the set-up.