Mod of Old Britain -- Need Ideas! - Age of Kings Heaven Forums

Topic Subject: Mod of Old Britain -- Need Ideas!

DengDezhou
Squire

posted 08-04-18 11:31 PM CT (US)

Building Graphics of Britons:
https://prntscr.com/kgz5am
---------------
I am inspired by games: Mount&Blade: Brytenwalda(it is a mod), Totalwar: Throne of Britannia, and Age of Chivalry: Hegemony (a popular mod of AoE2, :P).

The mod is based on old Britain( 6^th century to 1066), reappearing the scene of battles in old Brittish Isles.

Now I have an idea of 8 factions(those may be changed):
Gael(replace Celts), Picts(replace Aztecs), Anglo-Saxons(replace Teutons), Denish(replace Vikings), Norwegians(Replace Huns), Jutes(Replace Saracens), Britons(Replace Britons), and Normans(Replace Franks).

p.s.1: The Britons of the mod is referring the ancestors of today's Welsh people.
p.s.2: The Gael of the mod is referring the ancestors of today's Irish people.

My partners and I have come out with some ideas about units and techs, but we still hope to receive more suggestions or help (like graphics!). After all, I am not very familiar with that historic period (but I love it, of course).

The following part is showing the ideas now I have already had( welcome suggestions and criticisms):

1. Unique units and techs:
-Picts:
Unique unit(s):
Picts woman warrior. (Inspired by Aztecs' unique unit)
Picts crossbowman. (Inspired by Brytenwalda)
Unique tech(s): Picts big round shield. (Spear units +2 pierce armor)

Picts will be a faction which is having good spears. Picts units are cheap but weak.

-Gael:
Unique units:
Gaelic landlord(Originally Celts unique unit)
Unique tech(s):
Spear Formation ( spear unit +20hp, +1 at), Gaelic Siege Work ( siege units+ 20%)

Gael will be a faction which is having good price cavalry and fast-moving infantry units.

-Anglo-Saxons:
Unique units:
Anglo landlord( Goths unique unit)
Unique tech(s):
Sage Parliament ( Cav units are cheaper, villager carries resource +5), Shield Wall ( Sword infantry +2 pierce armor), King Arthur's Horn ( Infantry units attacking speed +15%)

Anglo-Saxons have good quality infantry and cavalry, but they are all expensive.

-Britons:
Longbowman
Unique tech(s):
Gwynedd Longbow (Longbowman and archers +2 range)

Britons have good archers and full-tech of siege work which is inherited from Romans.

-Jutes:
Unique unit(s):
Jutish Warrior(Throwing axeman without range)
Unique tech(s):
Frankish throwing ax (Jutish Warrior has +2 attack range)
Wolf mail chain (Jutish Warrior has +2/2 armor)

Jutes have very strong unique units, though they are very expensive.

-Normans:
Unique unit(s):
Norman Heavy Cavalry (Cavalry good at vs. infantry)
Norman Crossbowman
Unique tech(s):
Normandy warhorse(Norman Heavy Cavalry can lead to AOE damage)

Normans have high-quality cavalry, and they also have a crossbow. The infantry is lacking armor.

-Denes:
Unique unit(s):
Berserker (Infantry who can heal himself)
Unique tech(s):
Vikings' hegemony (Villagers +6 attack and 20% hp)

Other factions are still under discussing...

2. New buildings and units
I plan to add some new buildings:

-Tavern for hiring assassins, spies, and other, mercenaries.
-Trade Center for Viking factions, which can hire slaves warriors.

New units:

-Noble cavalry
Most factions have noble cavalry, which can be created in the castle. The cavalry can strengthen the army obviously.

-Spy
Spies have a broad vision. Their appearance is like a common male villager. They are very fragile. Spies can be used to scout enemies, or just deployed around the base ro provide vision like mobile-outposts.

-Assassin
Assassins have high attack, high speed, but low hitpoints. They can be used to kill villagers or destroy siege weapon.

3. Ages
1. Age of Migration 2. Age of Tribes 3. Age of Vassals 4. Age of Kings

4. Others
The monastery will be changed. Players can choose a different religious school to have a different bonus.

There are three religions: Druid, North Religion, and Christianity.

I want to players use a variety of units on the battlefield instead of using one unit to overwhelming everything.

Our work is just beginning, and I will update the topic.

There are some images of the mod:

From left to right, they are Jutes Warrior, Mercenary( the name is not decided yet), Frisian Heavy Infantry(a kind of mercenary, and noble cavalry)

We are really looking forward to AoKh producers' sharing of their graphics! (We are lacking the graph of the house of old Britians)

[This message has been edited by dengdezhou (edited 08-10-2018 @ 04:37 AM).]

Author

Replies:

patine
Squire

posted 08-05-18 00:23 AM CT (US) 1 / 34

Suggestion - what about the Dumnonians/Cornish/Kernow, who seem to, in many records, be somewhat distinct from the Britons politically, culturally, and linguistically?

DengDezhou
Squire

posted 08-05-18 01:19 AM CT (US) 2 / 34

@patine Thanks for your suggestion, it seems like I miss an important faction. BTW, it will be helpful if you can provide more information about its historic characteristics.

Mahazona
Squire

posted 08-05-18 01:43 AM CT (US) 3 / 34

For norway goths might make a better replacement,huns are too cavalry sentric.

DengDezhou
Squire

posted 08-05-18 02:56 AM CT (US) 4 / 34

@Mahazona I agree with you. I will reconsider the design of Norwegian, or just drop off this faction.

patine
Squire

posted 08-05-18 04:20 AM CT (US) 5 / 34

@dengdezhou: I would suggest the Maya as the civ to be modded, save for the cavalry lockout. The stone and gold mining bonus is very appropriate, not just stone (due to the famous Stonehenge monuments they built in far greater numbers and concentrations than any other Celtic culture) but they were also a huge centre in Antiquity, the Middle Ages, and the Early Modern for, if not gold mining, tin mining (in fact, from the 14th to 18th Centuries, the Stannery, a regional parliament of Cornwall within the Kingdom of England, later Great Britain, whose franchise was based on being a licensed and registered tin miner, having a tin-mining stake, or owning a tin mine, held huge local power and authority within Cornwall). However, unlike the Picts (who you seem to be modding the Aztecs for), the Cornish DID have the same pathfinder, scout, light harassing, and cattle raiding cavalry the Britons and Gaels, whereas the Picts are NEVER described on horseback and only ever on foot. I would make their unique unit a melee forest/hills ranger/tracker (I'll try to dig up a good unit name), not the precursors to the Medieval Longbowmen the Britons would have in some form. Gaels, Britons, and Cornish should all have a monk unit who looks like a druid (though I don't much about Pictish religious figures at all I'm afraid), while Norse and Denes should have Skalds, and Anglo-Saxons and Franks the sort of Monks that St. Augustine came there with. The unique tech for the Cornish could be a big farming bonus of some sort from their round farms and their greater knowledge of seasonal cycles through their stone and timber hedges.

[This message has been edited by patine (edited 08-05-2018 @ 04:23 AM).]

DengDezhou
Squire

posted 08-07-18 01:15 AM CT (US) 6 / 34

@patine Thanks for your suggestions! We have decided to add Cornish as a new faction in the mod, and we are enlightened much by your ideas. We are willing to receive more suggestions if you have more creative ideas.

The graphic of the monk is posted :P

Mahazona
Squire

posted 08-07-18 04:30 AM CT (US) 7 / 34

Try looking around the blacksmith you will find many graphics that can be of use.

patine
Squire

posted 08-07-18 04:40 AM CT (US) 8 / 34

Great news! :P

I'm still trying to dig up an appropriate contemporary name for the unique unit I'd spoke of. I suppose or "ranger" or "borderer" could work as a stop-gap, because that's they were, in essence.

But you do me honours as only the second AoK mod development team, after @danielpierra, to formally incorporate my suggestions into a mod that's more than just building graphic sets (not I've spammed tonnes of them, mind :P ).

[This message has been edited by patine (edited 08-07-2018 @ 04:41 AM).]

Mahazona
Squire

posted 08-08-18 06:39 AM CT (US) 9 / 34

Why not add heavy infantry unit to the castle to represent household gurads or body gurads?
From what I read mostly fyds and leavy troops made up the main army with trained household troops and viking mercenaries being the backbone.

AbeJin
Squire

posted 08-08-18 09:11 AM CT (US) 10 / 34

http://prntscr.com/kg80c0

http://prntscr.com/kg80te

I could provide you with some buildings for the mod, in this style.

patine
Squire

posted 08-08-18 09:53 AM CT (US) 11 / 34

You mean housecarls, @mahazona?

Mahazona
Squire

posted 08-08-18 11:51 PM CT (US) 12 / 34

Yes.

abe Those are nice buildings do you have the castle age buildings.

Some good ideas for the mod
http://aok.heavengames.com/cgi-bin/forums/display.cgi?action=ct&f=4,44517,30,all

[This message has been edited by Mahazona (edited 08-09-2018 @ 00:38 AM).]

The Great Artiste
Serial No. 44-27353
(id: Great_Artiste)

posted 08-09-18 01:28 AM CT (US) 13 / 34

Mash has a project you could use some units from as well

Co-creator and leader of Monsoon Studios

You are kneeling with your tongue out? What exactly do you think is going to happen here? - Matt

A drush is not a knockout punch; it is the first punch in a combo - Barbarossa

AbeJin
Squire

posted 08-09-18 03:08 AM CT (US) 14 / 34

@mahazona

I was thinking these to be the Saxon castle age buildings, these are the dark ages http://prntscr.com/kgimaq

Mahazona
Squire

posted 08-09-18 03:39 AM CT (US) 15 / 34

Oh ok i thought those were feudal age buildings.
Hows the progress on your other buildsets?

G_A i think you are referring to jan dc's mod,that had some awesome unit previews.

DengDezhou
Squire

posted 08-09-18 05:49 AM CT (US) 16 / 34

Thanks you guys' help, and the graphics are beautiful! I am still thinking if it is necessary to add heavy infantry into the mod.

@Mahazona What is the name of jan dc's mod? I am interested about it.

The Great Artiste
Serial No. 44-27353
(id: Great_Artiste)

posted 08-09-18 06:27 AM CT (US) 17 / 34

Couldn't find the link earlier link earlier

AbeJin
Squire

posted 08-09-18 08:00 AM CT (US) 18 / 34

@mahazona - working on them bit by bit

@dengdezhou - I think it's a really good idea to add heavy infantry trained from the castle, maybe even give them a small area of affect attack but make them extra costly, so they would be a good investment population-wise, but would only be feasible if you are a rich lord/king/chief.

Here is a design for a Anglo-Saxon Motte Castle;
http://prntscr.com/kgmmfq

DengDezhou
Squire

posted 08-10-18 05:22 AM CT (US) 19 / 34

How can I get those graphic slp files?

AbeJin
Squire

posted 08-10-18 01:02 PM CT (US) 20 / 34

Hi Dengzhou, these buildings that I am making are just 3D models for now, I'd like you to contact me on my Skype abedin_b92 or Steam acc AbeJin where we can share some ideas about what buildings you need in particular, how will they be different in purpose to vanilla AoK and such.
I always wanted to make buildings related to this period in history, so it's a fun detour for me. Hear from you guys soon.

Edit: Here, an SLP to try out, tell me if it looks good in game: https://drive.google.com/open?id=1B0_HM549_-GM8KJ3nPibM3HU04IaZPZW

[This message has been edited by AbeJin (edited 08-10-2018 @ 02:09 PM).]

Dave3377
Squire

posted 08-17-18 03:04 PM CT (US) 21 / 34

I had a few ideas in my unfinished Dark Ages mod, you are free to incorporate if you like. That mod was more global though, so the British isles were actually represented by variants of the Romans, Celts, and Saxons (it has techs that altered each civ to fit different regions/offshoots).

Unfortunately, I think my old thread was archived because I can't find it anymore.

patine
Squire

posted 08-17-18 06:36 PM CT (US) 22 / 34

Was that the one with the big Mott and Bailey building?

Sebastien
Dark Samurai

posted 08-17-18 08:51 PM CT (US) 23 / 34

Dave: This one?

To find stuff, just use the search tool at the bottom. make sure there are no spaces.

�Sengoku Total Conversion��The Modding Guild�
�Stormwind Studios�

[This message has been edited by Sebastien (edited 08-17-2018 @ 08:55 PM).]

patine
Squire

posted 08-31-18 03:53 AM CT (US) 24 / 34

Is this still being worked on? I'm very keen in seeing it come to fruition.

Dave3377
Squire

posted 08-31-18 09:55 AM CT (US) 25 / 34

Sebastien,

That's the one! Thanks!

Khan Ivayl
Squire

posted 08-31-18 10:17 AM CT (US) 26 / 34

@dengdezhou:

Since you ask for ideas, I will take the liberty to voice some opinions, based on the descriptions you provide in the thread-opening.

I would not include a civilization called 'Britons' as that is the geographic name for the entire Island. If you want a faction to use longbows that would be the Welsh... as far as I understood the longbow was a Welsh invention.

Generally be more brave and persistent with research and creative ideas. You can do better than name the Gael unique unit Gaelic landlord... historical research is fun and can get you to learn something while in the process of modding. In the last few weeks I learned amazing things about Sicily and Novgorod for example

I do like the idea of giving one of the Celtic factions a woman-warrior

That is both historically accurate and creative at the same time. Whether the Picts are exactly that faction is a whole other question, I would need to read up on this. I know, however, that they got their name from the heavy use of tattoos. One of their unique units should be tattooed and/or there should be a technology in reference to that (something like "sacred tattooes" to increase armor-class or such...).

I know that the mainland Saxons had a special weapon that either gave them their name OR was named after them - the sax: a one-edged, medium to short sword. Not sure if this is useful, but could be, since the mainland Saxons are (surprise) the ancestors of the British Saxons.

I don't know if you want to include a faction representing the Romans on the Island, or your mod takes place after their time, but the British Romans made use of Sarmatian mercenaries (unique unit idea) and could have as a unique technology - Hadrian Wall

~ Age of Vampires ~
http://aok.heavengames.com/blacksmith/showfile.php?fileid=10585
~ Tzars and Salesmen ~
http://aok.heavengames.com/blacksmith/showfile.php?fileid=13077

Dave3377
Squire

posted 08-31-18 03:38 PM CT (US) 27 / 34

as far as I understood the longbow was a Welsh invention.

"Invention" might be the wrong word. The Welsh use of the longbow vs the English is what inspired the English to adopt the weapon. The weapon itself is just a long bow. The vikings and Indians both used similar weapons (but made of different materials).
https://archerytopic.com/bows-and-arrows-viking-era/
http://www.ancientmilitary.com/ancient-india-military.htm

The longbow is just one way to make a powerful bow. The other way is to use a shorter recurve design and laminated woods of different flexibility. The reason Europe and India likely chose the longbow over more complex, but slightly less clumsy, recurve bow is that recurves tend to warp in rainy climates.

That said, I am not sure if the Welsh were using the longbow extensively during this time period, but they may have during the tail end. I was never able to find much literature on their early (pre-11th century) army composition. But...the fewer historical records the more artistic licence.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/English_longbow#Origins

Side note: The Japanese used longbows (Yumi bow) but placed the grip farther down the shaft. It is possible they did so to keep the bottom of the bow from poking the horse in combat (but see the following website for other theories as well). https://myarcherycorner.com/traditional-archery-bows-the-japanese-yumi

Dave3377
Squire

posted 08-31-18 03:44 PM CT (US) 28 / 34

The Seax was an all-purpose tool also used in war.

Two ways to incorporate this into a mod:
1) Cheap (trash) sword infantry available for the Saxons. They can counter spearmen but easily fall to the militia line.

2) An attack bonus for Saxon villagers (who would have a seax on them for use in farm and trade work).

Khan Ivayl
Squire

posted 08-31-18 05:26 PM CT (US) 29 / 34

Thanks for all this nice information, Dave3377

Also I think your ideas for the application of the seax are really great

~ Age of Vampires ~
http://aok.heavengames.com/blacksmith/showfile.php?fileid=10585
~ Tzars and Salesmen ~
http://aok.heavengames.com/blacksmith/showfile.php?fileid=13077

wjnabc
Squire

posted 09-08-18 07:50 AM CT (US) 30 / 34

Look at this website.
The green part is British
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Celtic_Britons

[This message has been edited by wjnabc (edited 09-08-2018 @ 07:52 AM).]

Kor
Busschof Happertesch
(id: Derfel Cadarn)

posted 09-08-18 11:13 AM CT (US) 31 / 34

I was never able to find much literature on their [Welsh] early (pre-11th century) army composition.

The standard work is Sean Davies, War and Society in medieval Wales 633-1283. Welsh military institutions (Cardiff 2004). Pretty much everything we know about the medieval period is in there and you're right that we know very little about the use of bows by Welsh armies (even by native Welsh armies in the later period), most of it is drawn from Gerald of Wales's descriptions, which are late 12th century. It's further complicated by the fact that the Welsh verb used in contemporary sources for shooting can applies both to firing arrows and throwing javelins/spears, so it's often impossible to distinguish between the two. But, of course, longbows even dating back to the iron age have been found in Britain, so we do know it was a very old weapon that was potentially known.

AbeJin
Squire

posted 09-12-18 01:37 AM CT (US) 32 / 34

Hi guys ,I've been in contact with the creator of this thread and mod, and basically it seems that this is either "dead" or "put on hold" since he is busy with this studies.
I am not saying that the author has given up, but don't hold your breath.

I've personally been very interested in the mod, and as far as I can tell it was supposed to be M&B Brytenwalda coupled with AoK, with units reflecting the techtree of the mod, rather than direct historical sources (though the units in the mod are well researched and designed I suppose).

Anyway, wait for the author to resurface before you get excited again.

Dave3377
Squire

posted 09-12-18 11:41 AM CT (US) 33 / 34

The standard work is Sean Davies, War and Society in medieval Wales 633-1283. Welsh military institutions (Cardiff 2004). Pretty much everything we know about the medieval period is in there and you're right that we know very little about the use of bows by Welsh armies (even by native Welsh armies in the later period), most of it is drawn from Gerald of Wales's descriptions, which are late 12th century. It's further complicated by the fact that the Welsh verb used in contemporary sources for shooting can applies both to firing arrows and throwing javelins/spears, so it's often impossible to distinguish between the two. But, of course, longbows even dating back to the iron age have been found in Britain, so we do know it was a very old weapon that was potentially known.

Thanks! I have the hardest time finding good historical references for that time period.

Anyway, wait for the author to resurface before you get excited again.

My excitement waits for no man!

DengDezhou
Squire

posted 10-06-18 05:18 AM CT (US) 34 / 34

Hey guys, I am still alive. Now I am still busy, but I never want to give up. Honestly, I am really troubled in using AGE tool--the main tool for me to make this mod, because it is too hard to find units with their abstract "ID" short names.

I will be much grateful if someone well experienced in using AGE can teach me.

P.S.
If you have ideas or wanna help me, feel free to add my skype:
https://join.skype.com/invite/RiLZ5HLMrSRp

Age of Kings Heaven » Forums » Mod Design and Discussion » Mod of Old Britain -- Need Ideas!

Top