Love ya.

If you need idea's or some sidequests or something, I'm available. I'm a RPG-fanatic

Guthan

hmmm, sounds great
but can you explain how the EXP system works?
and if you need a good ideas for your kind of RPGes i am here for takeing a part of the secnario's credits >!!

Guess what you should do. Give players to choose heroes with bonuses that differ alot from each other.
Like one regular melee cavarly, one cavarly archer, one pikeman, one foot archer, one skirmisher, one teutonic knight, one samurai, one camel, one hand cannoneer etc...

Then make alot variety between enemy units and players will actually have to know what to fight instead of just clicking aggressive stance and waiting for results.

[This message has been edited by Powery (edited 04-07-2009 @ 10:56 AM).]

EXP System -

This system would be used for levelling up your characters. And it would save alot of time instead of doing the usual "accumilate attribute: 50 kills" and stuff.

The EXP system that I have in mind would require a resource like Stone, Food or Wood (Or Gold if your not using gold for something else.)

In this example I'll be using Stone as the resource. The Resource here acts as your characters "Experiance". Experiance would be gained from kills. Now, the way of getting experiance through kills would be doing Kill Ratio's.
Lets pretend were doing the EXP system using Stone. We would start off the triggers like this:

Condition: Accumilate Attribute: Kill Ratio - Player # - 1 (where "1" is the number of kills for the ratio. I tend to use 1, 2 or 3.)
Effect: Create Object - Player # - Arbalest - Set the spawn location somewhere out of the way from the rest of the map. This unit is going to be the Ratio unit needed for the trigger to work. (Spawn 2 if the ratio is for 2, etc.)
We then would do the main part of the trigger - What we want to happen when we get this ratio.

So, Lets do our "Gaining EXP".

Effect: Tribute: Gaia > Player # - 1 stone
This is the Experiance gained from the kill
Effect: Kill Object - Arbalest - Player #
This kill trigger basically wraps up the Kill Ratio. Without this, the ratio will not work. Make sure you set the area to where the Arbalest spawns.

Thats our basic Gaining EXP trigger. Aswell as Arbalest's you could use William Wallaces to get rid of the noise from the unit spawn.

This will be out next trigger:

Condition: Accumilate Attribute: Player # - 50 Stone Stockpile
This is the exp required for our hero to level.
Effect: Send Chat - Scoure player: Player # "Level Gained!"
This basically lets the player know that he has gained a level for his Hero
Effect: Change object HP - Player #'s Hero - Set the HP gained to whatever you like, I suggest around 10 or 25.
Effect: Change object Attack - Player #'s Hero - Set the AP gained to whatever you like, I suggest 2 or 1.
These effects actually level the character.
Tribute: Player # > Gaia - 50 Stone
This tributes your exp to Gaia, so that you don't constantly gain upgrades. This also reset the exp gained so you can gain another level.

Set these two triggers to loop and there you have a very simple but effective EXP system. You can improve this, if you have another spare resource. You can introduce Elite Leveling etc etc.

Have fun

Effect: Create Object - Player # - Arbalest
...
Effect: Kill Object - Arbalest - Player #

If you create a Joan of Arc instead of arbalest, there's no creation sound, which is nice. And using Remove Object has the same effect, without the killing noise/animation, as far as I know.

I like your idea for enemies leveling up

yeah thats what I was saying with the William Wallace.

To ellaborate on the EXP systems idea, You could add "Elite Levels", If you were to tribute 1 wood to the player every time he gained a level, this would be his elite EXP. After 25 Elite EXP was gained, you could deactivate the original "50 stone to level up" trigger and activate a identical trigger that require 100 stone to level up, and has a bigger guff for the hero.

Inventory system:

Island, where units = different items/weapons/etc. In the middle is a transport, player loads units into it to equip and unloads to unequip. It's good because it limits the player and forces him to choose between items; though keep in mind that you must balance different items 'n stuff if you use this system.

Island, where units = different items/weapons/etc. In the middle is a transport, player loads units into it to equip and unloads to unequip. It's good because it limits the player and forces him to choose between items; though keep in mind that you must balance different items 'n stuff if you use this system.

Is it possible to determine which item is represented by which garrisoned unit? I'm not discrediting the idea, just asking how exactly it would work. It would be interesting to have each transport represent a different body part and then somehow make it so that you could only have one unit in each transport. That would probably be easiest with GenieEd, although I'm sure you could pull it off with triggers, too.

Condition: Accumilate Attribute: Kill Ratio - Player # - 1 (where "1" is the number of kills for the ratio. I tend to use 1, 2 or 3.)
Effect: Create Object - Player # - Arbalest - Set the spawn location somewhere out of the way from the rest of the map. This unit is going to be the Ratio unit needed for the trigger to work. (Spawn 2 if the ratio is for 2, etc.)
We then would do the main part of the trigger - What we want to happen when we get this ratio.

This is not really save. If for example you killed two units in a very short period there is not enough time to create and kill the unit. Since there is a small delay.
So instead of the kill ratio change it a bit around like this:

Start: ON/OFF Loop: YES
accumalate attribute: kill 1 player #
tribute kill 1 player # to gaia (you need aokts to do this)
Effect: Tribute: Gaia > Player # - 1 stone
This is the Experience gained from the kill

If now more then two are killed it will just reward you per kill. And doesnt give more then you should have.

Is it possible to determine which item is represented by which garrisoned unit? I'm not discrediting the idea, just asking how exactly it would work. It would be interesting to have each transport represent a different body part and then somehow make it so that you could only have one unit in each transport. That would probably be easiest with GenieEd, although I'm sure you could pull it off with triggers, too

Its possible. Its just that you check whether a unit is in the area and then apply the effects of the body part, like a wooden shield is equiped. It checks the area and sees that a militia is there. Say that unit was needed to be there to say that the wooden shield was equiped then you use effects to add the hp. When you want to unequip the shield you garrison the militia back in the transport ship and take off the hp.
Say you bought a Linen shirt. And gloves which increase hp by 7. Then two units are created near the transport, one for each item and garrisoned in the ship. Then it checks whether there is a unit unloaded. If you didnt unload any of the units then it just keeps checking. At the moment you like to equip the gloves to increase your hp, you unload the unit and the check sees the unit and adds the hp.
But, say that you have your equip system made like this:
That you cant wear a specific item unless you wear something.
Like, you want to equip a gloves, but you put a requirement that you first need to have a necklace equiped. Just because the Gloves work only with the necklace. This would mean that you need to block off the area's where the unit can land when unload. And if it sees that a wrong unit is unload at the wrong spot, it will simply garrison it back in the ship. And send a message on the screen: Body part cant be placed in that slot. Or only gloves fit in this slot. Something along this line.

What i also like about the RPG mechanics is the possibility to have weapons have special effects. The thing is, that well, cool effects with explosions is all very nice. But the problem is that you need to know at which point our hero is to make those effects. I mean you need an object in area check at every location that you want the explosion to happen. So this is very time consuming. And least worth it.
So, the other way of achieving the special effects, its using the object has target in a creative way.
You can achieve an effect where your hero gets healed once it attacks another player. Ofcourse the object target is a little bugged. This would just mean that the time you need to battle the other player should be enough so that it cant cheat and heal more then it should.

I'll share you a system that features this:

P1 Hero1 Start: On LOOP: YES
Condition:: object has target: Hero1
Condition:: timer=1
Effect:: activate trigger P1 target Hero1
Effect:: activate trigger P1 timer Hero1

P1 target Hero1 Start: Off Loop: Off
Condition:: object has target: Hero1
Condition:: timer=4
Effect:: activate trigger P1 heal Hero1

P1 timer Hero1 Start: Off Loop: Off
Condition:: timer=5
Effect:: deactivate trigger P1 target Hero1

P1 heal Hero1 Start: Off Loop: Off
Effect:: send tribute player1 to gaia -365 (Heal range) using aokts
Effect:: change ownership gaia to player1 monk
Effect:: task object: monk player 1 to Hero1
Effect:: activate trigger 1p reset

NOTE: You need the new template from here:
http://aok.heavengames.com/cgi-bin/aokcgi/display.cgi?action=ct&f=4,36385,0,all

NOTE: For this you need to place a monk, somewhere on the map, preferably just out of side of the player, by the tribute of the heal range now the monk is able to heal all friendly units from any location at the map. In the start the monk is not owned by any of the players, but to another player. It means that the monk should be placed somewhere where it is always out of reach without the healing of this trigger. And once triggered it can heal it.

P1 reset Start: Off Loop: Off
Condition:: timer=3
Effect:: send tribute player1 to gaia 365 (Heal range)
Effect:: stop unit: Player1 monk
Effect:: change ownership gaia to < system player* > monk
* The player is not a human player, but sort of system player, which is used for controlling this.
Say there are 4 human heroes, then player5 could be this system player, which controls this.

You need to reuse the 5 triggers I listed for every player.
Read additional information I wrote near it, so you know how to set it up. If you have sort of hero classes like a ranger and a warrior, a mage and perhaps a priest then you would need to add those specific triggers in there too.
I mean for every priest you need a trigger, and so on. So with the classes told here, you need for all players triggers for all classes. Just to let you know.
I dont say that you need to follow up on this. I mean that you need to use the classes. Its just an idea.
Aswell is the idea on how to use this healing when attacking. I havent found a flaw in this yet. So if anyone can tell me, then im pleased. And i could possibily change it a bit around.

The next idea is to have weapons add attack on a random chance. This means it act as if it critically wound the victim. In this case the enemies. I will post the exact mechanics later, but maybe someone else even know of how to put this up.

Im pretty sure, many got idea's for an RPG but its just sometimes a lot of thinking needed to put it to a right concept both fair and possible. I keep it this size for now. Hoping to see what you have in mind.

Oh, by the way. Good shot at this topic Tanks. Yet I too am one of the RPG lovers. I still have to get the job to get a real RPG-Guru though That aside.

[This message has been edited by WizarDBoy (edited 04-08-2009 @ 11:14 AM).]

That sounds like an awesaome idea, Impeached.

I also like the ide of using several transportsd for diffrent body parts.

Its possible. Its just that you check whether a unit is in the area and then apply the effects of the body part, like a wooden shield is equiped. It checks the area and sees that a militia is there. Say that unit was needed to be there to say that the wooden shield was equiped then you use effects to add the hp. When you want to unequip the shield you garrison the militia back in the transport ship and take off the hp.
Say you bought a Linen shirt. And gloves which increase hp by 7. Then two units are created near the transport, one for each item and garrisoned in the ship. Then it checks whether there is a unit unloaded. If you didnt unload any of the units then it just keeps checking. At the moment you like to equip the gloves to increase your hp, you unload the unit and the check sees the unit and adds the hp.

I have a couple of issues/questions for this... First, you can't create an object and then have it be effected by an object in area condition. At least, I don't think you can. I'm sure that it could be fixed with a simple use of the Invisibility Cloak or something of that sort, though.

The other question that I wanted to bring up is how you're going to detect when a unit leaves the area and garrisons the transport. The first thing that came to mind was setting off a trigger that activates a bunch of other triggers whenever a certain unit ("item") isn't garrisoned (object in area by the transport), each with an object in area condition. There'd be a trigger for each unit that was garrisoned or "unequipped." When they ungarrison, the trigger for that particular unit goes off, deactivates all the other ones, takes away the bonus of the previous item, adds the new bonus, and then sends the other unit back into the transport. That way, you keep the player from having multiple items equipped in one fell swoop. Also, I think that the transport would have to be owned by a player other than Player 1, but all the units be owned by him (so that he can individually ungarrison his units). Hopefully the player doesn't ungarrison everything, though. That could get a little hectic.

I suppose, now that I think about it, you could make it so that the garrisoned unit is the equipped one using a similar method of "who's outside of the transport."

Haroth, simply block off all but one side of the transport. If the unit is detected inside the transport, activate a trigger which will 'unequip' it once the unit is detected outside.

Ah, seeing RPG stuff is motivating me slightly, oddly.

Anyhows, I'm not sure if this was written already but:

-you should use 'Remove Object' instead of 'Kill Object' for the kill ratio trick
-if you know how, you should use 'Accumulate Kills' trick instead of kill ratio trick
-for what Powery said, if the player's units are going to gain 'buffs' it makes it harder to balance it in a way that makes counter-units effective
-you can accomplish skills/items/equips feature using the boat/ram

WizardBoooyyy, sorry, I've been way too lazy. I'm going to go back to editting soon...

Haroth, simply block off all but one side of the transport. If the unit is detected inside the transport, activate a trigger which will 'unequip' it once the unit is detected outside.

How do you detect a single, specific unit inside a transport? I thought you could only detect the amount of units garrisoned within a transport.

[This message has been edited by Haroth (edited 04-08-2009 @ 07:52 PM).]

How do you detect a single unit inside a transport? I thought you could only detect the amount of units garrisoned within a transport.

You can use 'Objects In Area'. You can go further and use a specific type of unit such as Arbalest.

If I'm wrong, Bring Object To Area should work.

Wow, I never knew you could do that with those conditions. Nifty.

You can use 'Objects In Area'. You can go further and use a specific type of unit such as Arbalest.

If I'm wrong, Bring Object To Area should work.

Both will work, its just that object in area is allowing more freedom, since bring object to area requires an object and object in area, its just the area and an amount.
Making it somewhat cleared. Since no object is involved to be selected.

WizardBoooyyy, sorry, I've been way too lazy. I'm going to go back to editting soon...

Good great news. I really am interesting in how things will eventually progress. Yes, I had a good sense when playing the scenario at first. I just hope the rest could have its own soon too. I mean that the other parts not yet designed are coming along equal nicely as the current content.
It will surely be some praised work to give you some more honor

Oh and by the way. I did told yesterday that i was about to write something about the special weapon that used random to give a chance at which it is applied. At the moment im a bit lazy for that, so i will delay it with some days.
Just if you didnt had a chance to read it, read the somewhat long reply of me, it contains a trigger setup which explains how you can heal your unit when they are fighting. It works pretty good so far. Im really looking forward if someone can see whether there is a bug somewhere. Since it looked like that it could be cheated. Still untested as far as i know it. Hoping to hear some replies whenever one feel the like to.

Character: Mage System

I've seen something similar to this done in an old RPG, but it was undeveloped and badly done so I came up with a new system for it.

If the player chose the Mage as a hero, The Player would be given an edited Missionary. In order to gain Experiance and Kills, the Player would have to convert units to fight for him, the player would also be given a resource that represents MP (Magic Power). A small island somewhere in the corner of the map would have a King Spawn that is used for casting spells. Spells could include things like Health spells which give the heroes and units un-healable health, Attack spells which could increase the players minions attack for a short time, and other spells that could produce some intresting stuff.

Of course, there would be limitations to what the player can convert (EG: A limit to how many converted men the player can control, with that limit being higher as they level up.) The player's Missionary would have the lowest HP of all the other heroes and would not be able to be healed.

To gain MP, the Player could collect certain items, visit certain places, or if you do something similar to my Elite Levelling system then you could replace the Wood gained as Elite EXP, with Food for MP.

Eating/Fatigue System:

If you want your RPG to have more realism, you could use Food as a survival resource. Killing wild animals could give you a small amount of food, you could buy food at a store also. Food would be your Food or your Fatigue. As you play the game the food/fatigue would slowly diminish, meaning that you would have to keep eating and getting food to survive. If you ran out of food then your health would slowly be drained untill you replenished.

Item System:

It is possible to have various items scattered around your map, these can be picked up by walking and touching them, or by destroying something and looting the item. Items could be anything from health potions, strength potions, new weapons, armors etc. This also adds some nice realism to the RPG.

Your spell system does not work because the player is required to look off-screen to use a spell. This is why I don't like most 'spell' systems in AoK games.

Try this article for a good system.

Well, It does work. Only you have to look away to use it.

What part of "hotkeys" do you not understand?

How do people like the "Heal the hero when attacking" system?
I still am a bit unsure whether there is a flaw and i really wish to know.

Well, It does work. Only you have to look away to use it.

Yes, that is my point. You interrupt the flow of gameplay and possibly endanger the player or force him to mistime the ability he wishes to use.

What part of "hotkeys" do you not understand?

I understand hotkeys, but even with a hotkey the player must look away to use the 'move king to spot on island' system.

You know what, this is the same RPG system used in Warcraft 3 and it works much better there

To be fair Impeached, you said-

Your spell system does not work because the player is required to look off-screen to use a spell.

-I know what you mean but you worded it wrong. That old spell system is horrible because of what you stated before.

WizarDBoy, I just did a skill for player 1 and it uses the same concept. However, I thought of a different way and it is more reliable then the old method, but still not 100% perfect. =/

You know what, this is the same RPG system used in Warcraft 3 and it works much better there

-Which system? Everything in this thread? I thought WC3 has it's own skills and such, the Heros.

I understand hotkeys, but even with a hotkey the player must look away to use the 'move king to spot on island' system.

I was referring to Impeached's HIGHLY practical idea.

WizarDBoy, I just did a skill for player 1 and it uses the same concept. However, I thought of a different way and it is more reliable then the old method, but still not 100% perfect. =/

Could you maybe go into a bit more detail by sending a mail to me? I mean, i dont understand how it is not possible to be 100% perfect. Maybe there is a way. If you explain the part. I suppose mail works a little better. I miss the mailing aswell *blushes* yea, it was pretty fun.
And a good thing to get updated. I know i dont need to share idea's with you that often. But a talk about the progress is well okay. And to me, im getting more curious what just happened in that new system that is more reliable but still not what you want.

Perhaps you could make the player hotkey the character as well and use the 'object selected' condition?
if you put a delay on it to stop it looping multiple times while the player switches button, it could work well.

Perhaps you could make the player hotkey the character as well and use the 'object selected' condition?
if you put a delay on it to stop it looping multiple times while the player switches button, it could work well.

There is one "stupid" flaw if you accidently give another unit a hotkey then the ability/skill was before, the whole ability/skill is messed up.

Like in this situation: You have tied number 1 to Fire breath. But you also have your hero. So fire breath is tied to 1 if you press 1 then fire breath unit will be selected, right? What if you click your hero unit, and somehow decide to give it a number just to make it easier to find him when scrolling left and right to see where you are. Now what if you gave this hero the number 1? Some people could choose 1, and say they do, then the unit that had Fire breath before, is taken away. Since now when pressing 1 it will select your hero. This flaw is quite stupid. Since it can be easily managed to get this happening. Its the weakness of the hotkey, and a way to mess up triggers and spell system, it is hardly possible to repair it when a wrong unit is tied to a different unit. And confuses the player a whole lot when the wrong unit is tied.

I think you misunderstood something WizarDBoy, you can have the numbers 0-9 hotkeyed. Meaning you can hotkey up to 10 unit(s). If they somehow 'overlap' their hotkey button, they could just 'fix' it easily by hotkeying again.

Also, the only thing that the hotkey can do is select 'hotkeyed' unit(s) and/or change view to them. As for other effects, they are done with triggers.

Basicaly, hotkey unit(s) to the number that you want and remember that number. Numbers 1-5 is where the player's left hand should be at.
For my game, I would say hotkey:
1=Hero
2=HP Potion
3+=Whatever the player is comfortable with

@WizarDBoy, I'll send you another mail after I complete some more stuff. I just started editting again yesterday or so and managed to do a few skills.

To rehotkey a unit is very inconvenient, and is aside from that on accident they give a skill a number that was already used. Like you have 3 spells, and you have to give them a hotkey, you just hotkey them in order from 1, 2, 3.
Then you also got a hero, even though it sound simple to give it hotkey 4 by now. It could happen for a strange reason that they will pick hotkey 3 and forget that it was tied to the 3rd spell. Since there is no way you can detect with triggers of this mistake. People will not know how to fix it. They can give the unit a new hotkey sure, but this also activates the spell, so if they only want to rehotkey its annoying that the spell activates as they rehotkey.
Yes, maybe im too concerned, but i dont like the whole idea of having to hotkey them again, i see so many problems.
And im not misunderstanding, i know they can be hotkeyed again, imo it is not handy, as a said the spells/skills could happen again since it could be that when it is selected, the unit that you rehotkey that it already activate the skill. Say you just had your first spell not tied but you actually liked using your second spell, and while you rehotkey your first spell, you lose mana for instance, that you were to use with the second spell. Its a way of spoiling mana unnecerily due to the selection.

Yea, i mean this in the single player, in multiplayer this couldnt happen like this.

Accidentally replacing a previous hotkey doesn't occur often, it shouldn't occur at all. Players should remember the few skills/hotkeys they set. >_>

They can give the unit a new hotkey sure, but this also activates the spell, so if they only want to rehotkey its annoying that the spell activates as they rehotkey.

I was under the impression that 'selecting' the unit did not activate the skill. You had to move them/eject them to activate it.
The select-to-cast method seems to be messed up in the first place, when you have to first hotkey them.

Accidentally replacing a previous hotkey doesn't occur often, it shouldn't occur at all. Players should remember the few skills/hotkeys they set. >_>

I was referring to another kind of people which distract from rules and go their own way. This way its possible because of ignorance. Anyways, it should happen indeed!

I was under the impression that 'selecting' the unit did not activate the skill. You had to move them/eject them to activate it.
The select-to-cast method seems to be messed up in the first place, when you have to first hotkey them.

Haha, yes in your case it doesnt activate the skill. In single player you could have it like this, that once you select the unit it activates the skill. In multiplayer, yea, you would of course want the player to move the unit, because the select object condition doesnt work.

Yea, that part about the select-to-cast is the method i was referring to, and to be its a disaster to use it for spells. Anyways, the set up of the spells is tricky indeed. You never know when they did gave the numbers, there is a lot of assumption required. One that isnt that good.
You want straightforward rules that just work and yes, they wont need to mess up like those select to cast spells tend to >_>

WizarDBoy, I think you're over reacting a little bit to how the system works. You're making the small problem of hotkeying and re-hotkeying certain skills more of a problem than it needs to be. There are different way to accommodate the need to hotkey or re-hotkey skills without actually setting them off. For instance, you can have a unit or building off to the side that will temporarily deactivate all of the triggers that garrison/ungarrison units into transport.

WizarDBoy, I think you're over reacting a little bit to how the system works. You're making the small problem of hotkeying and re-hotkeying certain skills more of a problem than it needs to be. There are different way to accommodate the need to hotkey or re-hotkey skills without actually setting them off. For instance, you can have a unit or building off to the side that will temporarily deactivate all of the triggers that garrison/ungarrison units into transport.

Im not only overreacting. I also see that it is a serious problem that you cant fix. Your idea to use a unit or building to deactivate triggers, isnt very helpful. Why you might say, well, you dont know when someone accidently pressed a skill button for a skill that it didnt want to use. I mean, unless there is a delay between the skill pressed and the actual effect of the skill, then yes, the problem goes away a bit. Since you are able to quickly choose that other skill in the delay, and when its activated, it again creates a delay before that skill is used. This would mean that people can endlessly choose another skill providing they have enough resource for it (its not really required, but if).

The hotkey can be easily fixed when putting an object on the map that will temporarily deactivate the skills, and allow you to hotkey the objects again. I think that is what your telling. Yeah, I just thought about it when you said it, and now it makes sense. So after that temporarily moment, it will activate all skills again. Since clicking doesnt work in multiplayer, i think it should be like this:
You check the area whether it has a unit, if it isnt there, then the skill goes in effect, after that the unit is created. Making it possible to use the skill again.
This means that you need to check whether the unit is in the area to know when its used and not.