I like the "more complex story line" route.
I tried to make a campaign for EE that contained both fields, a great plot, and tons of eye candy too. (over 50 unique units through mods). When I was near 90% done, I realized that the campaign file was too big for most to donwload, so I got upset and scrapped the whole thing.
I tend to go more towards RPG when making scenarios, so that usually leads to a more in depth storyline IMO.

Gameplay vs Story has always proved to be a good discussion, debated at times, but many like Ingo, u, Mark, others have incorporated both into their campaigns...

A complex, evolving story, filled with suspense, tragic, etc will always influence a user's mind. The storyline is one of the first thing user will see before downloading a scn IMO, so it becomes a very important part.

Gameplay, comes thereafter, giving the user a feel of the character, giving him a challenge, a thrill of victory, a feel of the defeat. Such gameplay, will defenitely being a success to your scn/cpn.

If I would be asked to choose, it would be a dificult choice. Intresting stories, with simple gameplay are not a bunch, and good gameplay with simple-straight forwards stories are not that fun either.

But at the same time, One would like to go all the way to complete the cpn if the storyline is complex, mysterious, etc. Coz, one feels the urge to know the secret/truth/end to the saga,drama. So, I would give storyline a bit push ahead of gameplay. A story which seems intresting, would be read/seen or downloaded in this case.

But if u want to really appeal, a certain mix of both is needed. And its i feel, impossible to bring out a perfect mix of the both, but good storylines would probably be better to sarifice some gameplay.

The story is really a part of the gameplay. The better story, the more fun to play. So I'm not sure if there's really an answer to this question.

I'll leave that for the philosophers.

I would say they're both important. Specifically, a good, engaging story creates good gameplay because the player is very involved with it. But if you absolutely have to choose between gameplay and story, go with gameplay since people download your scenario to play it, not look at the story. Of course, you can make something like a movie scenario where you concentrate on story. In fact, with AoM's good zoomed-in graphics, I think we'll be seeing a lot of those.

Quoted from Shadows:

I would choose the former. Generally, I feel that story-building is more difficult than weaving a map. I have seen maps before which are mediocre enough to deserve to be plunked in the "Worst of AoK" section, but featuring pretty well-done storylines that leave you with a "feel-good" feeling.

And no, none of those maps are to be found here.

I'm not a scenario designer, I've dabbled in it in the past, but I think the distinction between people who want gameplay and people who want imaginative play (such as a real story) is that those who want gameplay are more likely to be players of the game, whereas the latter are more likely to be designers.

I myself far prefer a challenging build and destroy scenario to something where I walk from place to place fulfilling somesuch quest or whatnot.

Gameplay and story thing is different for every gameplay genre, u need one formula for a good RPG and a different one for BnD. Here`s a formula for all ages BnD – Tactical map:

Ok, to succeed in all ages crowd (13-75+), u just got to put 10 minutes long cutscenes and let player kill 200 guys per minute...that`s all.

Story (long pretty cutscenes), gameplay (all these dead bodies on the ground) - Players need both! and after 4 years of making maps I think I am just starting to figure out what works best. (in my opinion)

So here`s an example of the scenario:
-There is a 5 minute long cutscene filled with some epic actions, bravery, love and hatred and all that other hero crap.
-Next comes THE MASSACRE! giving player 45 minutes of REALLY challenging killing and stuff (if you guys remember AoKPunk Massacre and other massacres u`ll know what I mean - it was SOOOO fun for everyone)
-Another cutscene.
-MASSACRE CONTINUES.

So basically the gameplay is in Massacre style, and player is awarded a neat little 5 min LONG cutscene for every like 1000 guys he kills or a location he captures. And I really think it`s as simple as this.

Well, add some original gameplay elements like god-powers or Trojan horse by the gate and everyone should like this.

Exactly the gameplay/story element I am going with in "Troy".

Oh, and please, if someone`s going to copy this idea, PLEASE, do wait for about 2 months till I get "Troy" out, just want to be the first to try this. Thanks.

I try to use both in as much quantity as possible. In the end though, I usually favor gameplay. The problem is that I consider story to be part of the gameplay, so it really all balances out. You can have gameplay without story, but not the other way around.

Well, obviously they're both very important (A lot more important to me, as a scenario designer) I definetely strive to get in good favor of them both, and balance them together, fusing them into 1.

But, for the sake of discussion I'd have to lean towards a unique gameplay. I have noticed myself [numerous times] playing scenarios that unfortunately had NO hint of a proper story, but i played the scenario anyway, as I liked the way the game itself played out.

I remember this particular scenario that i d/led 4-5 months ago. It was called "The Sims" (aok) There was no story, no history and the in-game instructions were non-existant. But, the game itself was great! The map design was above par, the story played itself out (Even though it confused me a LOT at times), and overall, those 3 minutes were very well spent!

If you get what i mean

Shiva

Guess I'm with the minority by saying the story is more important. Obviously can't play a game or scenario without gameplay, but every single game or scenario you ever play will have boring points to it. I've gone through a number of scenarios (sometimes taking loop holes to go faster) just to see how the story turns out. A story can compell a player to play through an entire campaign while gameplay only makes the player go "wow".

Obviously both very important, but I'ld be more impressed by a polished story than just a scenario with a ton of eye candy and so called 'new' features.

Gameplay over story any day.

What is a good story without a good gameplay ? If you develop an amazing story but the game is so boring and repetitive, chances are the player won't go to the end of your story. Imagine a book written in yellow colored font with a great story...most people won't give it a chance.

Personnally, I can easily stand a good scenario with no story, but a long boring repetetive RPG with a good story will bore me to death.

I'll take Massacre over your scenarios anyday shag

Neither.

Weird guy intrepid
Curious how many actual low-rated scenarios actually played? I personally believe all scenarios have boring periods in them and you can't promise someone that gameplay will soon be better. If they get stuck and its been boring than they'll simply quit playing it.

But with a good story they might actually wanna play more. Maybe its just me, but most scenarios I played had bad stories even if gameplay was decent still pretty boring. Leaves you feeling like you did it for nothing, simply killing the "Red Guy" cause it says enemy on your diplomacy screen.

--
There're always the topics where the choice seems obvious without thinking. And all the greatest scenarios I remember had the best stories as well.

[This message has been edited by Angel Park (edited 10-24-2002 @ 08:19 PM).]

A perfect example of a scenario with gameplay but almost no story is the multiplayer race game, TTF. To the best of my knowledge, it was originally made by a Chinese person. All the instructions were in Chinese so they showed up as weird characters and nothing could be understood. Still, the game had so many neat and creative events (moving bridges, sand pits, sheep race, fire-dragon, laser beams, etc) that it was a huge hit on the Zone. IMO it was one of the best AoK scenarios ever, probably better than certain 5.0 campaigns. Now there's an English version out and we can see that most of the text is just one line (the general idea is that the Orange "Hellmonk" player has trapped you somewhere and you must escape, and you get gold for finishing an event first). But still the gameplay is excellent.

I am sorry, I did not fully read the question. I just read a part of it and then started reading the replies. I did not realize that most of you are actually not answering the correct question that Shadows asked, but in fact answering the question

"What do you find more important in a Scenario/Campaign story or gameplay?",

which is not the actually question at all.

I would have to say that gameplay is much more prevalent in any of my creations.

Quote:

Well EO, generally apes and monkeys of the sorts prefer "bashing the crap out of things" without understanding what they're bashing.

And don't call me Shag. You're pushing your limits.

Interesting to see only one person actually read the entire topic... But that's fine, your answers to another question seem dandy and well thought out.

Personally I will edge more to story, as I always have. Except I've grown older, and my abililty to write has risen as I write more. Thus this story should be greatly differant in comparison to my older scenarios.

Quoted from Shadows:

I'm sorry, just can't help myself.....but why Shag?

Quote:

Both. They're both just as important to me.

Quote:

*Spends months on my campaigns*

Quote:

All of my previous campaigns were a pretty even mix of the two. And in my next AOM Project (codenamed: FM), I plan to have both an interesting story and great gameplay.

Rob coined that Shag word a few years(2 or 3) when Taigeion changed his name from Taigeion to Shadows...he and I have been using it since then and it's only now that he is po at it

And your scenarios are too long shadows, make simplier scenarios so I'll play them to the end

I have an idea for a story.

Perhaps your heroes, after getting lost, would end up in the land of Zoolog, where all the AOM animals thrive. You've have to fight back hostile carnivores, hunt certain beasts to gain the help of the local tribes, and maybe even raise a pet.

That's not much of a storyline, I know, but it's creative, and it centers around my favorite part of AOM so far, the animals.

I tend to sit in the center. Both are as important as each other - they go hand in hand. I tend do design my scenarios with that in mind. Remember, with the neat little shopping system I invented, plus, it had a plot that made sense, and a bonus cutscene at the end. And all the stuff I made the players do, like collecting water, and shopping for spanners actually work into the story.

EO: It was about a year and a half ago.
mmmm... shaggy... da original mistah luvva luvva... mmm... Mr Boombastic, elephantastic...
I'm going to the vacuum bag store in Panarth,
And then up to Cleveland to see my friend Garth,
I'm meeting Dale Winton to film to other half,
And then to the death star to defeat Vader Darth.
*cough, aghk*

[This message has been edited by Ricros (edited 10-26-2002 @ 06:19 AM).]

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Unless you are like devoted to designing (sort of like those two guys that died after forgetting to breath and eat while playing) you are not, I repeat, NOT going to design a decent scenario in a few days.

Usually it takes me about a week to make a halfway decent map layout for SWGB. Even then I erase portions of it that need improvement. In some cases I have spent weeks on story or map design.

Personally, the storyline tends to be the focus of the scenarios and campaigns that I have created for Age games. I admit, I try to keep the scenario centered between Gameplay and Story, however, as you said earlier Shad, the likeliness of people keeping their scenarios centered is very low. As well, Sometimes I may need the assistance of a person specialized in a certain part of the scenario editor that I am not specialized in.

But that doesen't take away from the fact that there will always be boring or irrelevent parts of our scenarios. The best scenarios, from my observations, are the ones which have a good story line, are enjoyable to play, surprise us with a new perspective on the different funtions of the scenario Editor and contains the least amount of boredom, without making the game too eventful. There are few people who can actually do this, and keep every factor balanced within the scenario.

However, when AoM is released, don't be surprised that there will be terrible scenarios. From past observations, for the first few weeks, the scenarios being created and submitted to AoMH, will be simple scenarios created within a few days. During this period, many scenario developers start examining and researching the different techniques that could be applied. As months progress, Scenarios will get better and better. Finally, there will come a time when scenario designers have reached the climax of the scenario editor, and scenarios will stay at a level where they won't get better unless you use Mod's and other forms of manipulating the scenario editor.

Furthermore, I am looking forward to these events mentioned above. From the ideas I see so far in this forum, the ideas for several scenarios seem awesome and awe inspiring. I can't wait to play them.

-Sunny

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Hrrm..I would disagree to that. The AoK community is still creating new map design tricks, new verisons of gameplay, and new and better storylines to this day.

The only thing which is changing is the amount of people who participate in their creation.

To the two extremes, I have seen these custom scenarios in AOK:

1. Pure battle, 2000 champions fighting 500 war elephants and something like that. No story, just clicking around. ZERO mark.

2. A long story like RPG, a guy walking around doing nothing serious but talking, blah blah blah, and then kill a pikeman and it ends. minus 100 marks.

The best scenarios are the AOE/ROR defaults. Good balance in gameplay and story!