The reason I ask is that I am trying to come up with a well-balanced set of wizards for one of my maps, which is currently being discussed in this thread:
http://aow.heavengames.com/cgi-bin/forums/display.cgi?action=ct&f=32,5413,,20

If you look at some of the previous threads about skill choices, such as this one:
http://aow.heavengames.com/cgi-bin/forums/display.cgi?action=ct&f=32,4648,,all
you find DarkMystery saying:

the skills are always pacifist, constructor and explorer.

However since UPatch 1.4 appeared on the scene this is no longer true, because you can't take the combination of Pacifist/Explorer/Constructor. So I am trying to find what people now like to use instead...

Also in that thread ZombieEater said:

In longer games it may not pay off to take a negative Skill. Negative Skills actually pack a double penalty - not only do you incur a penalty for the negative Skill, but you are also prohibited from Researching the beneficial Skill of the same kind. E.g. a Technophobe can't Research Constructor. In a long game, where you have the time to Research this can be a big disadvantage.

Do you agree with this, and does it still apply?

When there is fair amount of mountains and Explorer does not count as two skills, I like to pick it with Air Specialist Dwarf.
If redundence of gold is expected, then I add Constructor/Buerocrat combo.
For small maps, Casting Specialist instead of Explorer.

Thanks, some interesting combinations there

An archon peacekeeper is quite handy, for obvious reasons.

An archon peacekeeper is quite handy, for obvious reasons.

Especially with Death sphere...

There was somebody that used to play archons with death specialist quite often in our online games, can't remember who, maybe it was Air Warlord or maybe Dark Mystery / Tir Asleen? Think they had anarchist and something else as the skills, however...

When it comes to style, i prefer Dark Elves, Death, a penalty and two skills.
When it comes to power, i want a race that gives me a good chance of a recruiter amog my starting units or at least a fast way to build one. Thus Nomads, Undead or Archon are top choices. Light Elves are possible too, but the nymph is extremely vulnerable. On maps with lots of animals Orcs are an option for the shaman and Light Elves gain the druid.
To keep those free units happy i want peace keeper; on a fast map the technophobe penalty for two additional skill points. Magic choice depends on expected duration too. A long game favours the high end spells of a specialist. In a short game i would mix. I avoid water as it is (in my opinion) the weakest sphere by far, offering exactly three castworthy spells: healing water, static shield and great hail.

Thanks for the input, KH

The only caveat I would add to your comment about water sphere weakness is that it does very much depend on the map in question. In a map with a lot of water it can be extremely useful. Also Static Shield can win a game that would otherwise have been lost - it is a very powerful spell.

As you started the topic to balance your maps you probably know the amount of water on your maps and can take it into account accordingly. Even on wet maps Air is still better than water: Flying (floating) summons trump swimming summons (concealement is still a factor)and wind walking is better (yet more expensive) than water walking or liquid form. I admitt that Static Shield is indeed very powerfull and sometimes changes a game on its own. Unfortunatelly the spells that will show in a players research book are randomly determined. The other spheres will offer good stuff for sure; water is a gamble: Either Static shield shows or it doesn't. I dislike being screwed by a single dice.

Anarchist constructor/expander with good or evil with full death or life spheres . Scholar in some mods or SP is pretty handy. Neutral race with peacekeeper to buy every race's towns. I like to use water sphere a lot too.

There was somebody that used to play archons with death specialist quite often in our online games, can't remember who, maybe it was Air Warlord or maybe Dark Mystery / Tir Asleen?

Tir did that at least, dark gifted titans were pain. Lunapark had these weird combos too, tho not intented cause random wiz picker or what was it.

SP is pretty handy

SP?

Single Player i supposed.

Scholar is a good choice for a cosmos wizard IMHO,
for quick enchantment spells research.
But in long games, it's not so important

Single Player i supposed.

Ah yes, silly me, that's an abbreviation I use quite often myself

Good point though Muna, the skills that we would pick for SP are probably different to those that we might prefer for an online game or an email game, and if we were going to play a random map against other human players we might need to make skill choices that would cover a wider range of starting positions.

I suppose really my main focus is what people would choose for multi-player games, because most of my maps allow people to customise their starting wizard, so in SP it is very easy to choose your own spheres and skills for your own wizard.

Ideally I would like all the wizards to have a set of spheres/skills that people might have selected themselves. All wizards will probably be cosmos wizards, to stop AI races casting mastery spells.

- Dark Elves with Summoner and Death Sphere
- Dwarves with Constructor and air sphere
- Elves with explorer and water sphere

Thanks Unnapu

I like Halflings with Earth sphere.

Being able to throw stone skin on these guys really helps their survivability. Also, you get the wild boar early to help with your exploration and the basilisk later to serve in your main army. The Halfling's gold bonus is one of the main reasons I like them, but I think the Rogue is a great early to mid-game city conqueror. Sherriffs can be used effectively both offensively and defensively and the end-stage Leprechauns are one of my favorite units - especially with stone skin and any offensive boosts you can provide.

Also, someone else mentioned above they believe Water sphere to be very weak. I kinda like that one, in particular for the Geyser spell. That spell can really chip away at a powerful unit that otherwise might wreak havoc on your army. Plus it seems to always cause damage - it doesn't miss like Vengeful Vapor or (can't remember exact name) Mighty Fist.

I'm not a big fan of leprechauns or hobbits in general, but I do like water sphere, especially on maps with plenty of water... liquid form not only gives units physical protection, it also allows them to cross water. This can be very useful for surprise attacks, when your opponent assumes that you will use bridges to enter their territory, but you can take a shortcut and (hopefully) ambush them.

Ideally I would like all the wizards to have a set of spheres/skills that people might have selected themselves.

At least you can fix the cost of skill so you can balance them, problem is that new players donīt learn to use it as it is in CoMA or latest MP 1.8.

What comes the power of water sphere is the best combat spells and best buffs plus very cheap 4th summon and good global spell spring rains. In upatch you got golden age pretty easy from order quests too, massive amount of money.

[This message has been edited by Munataros (edited 03-15-2010 @ 02:21 PM).]

I remember one of my first games with the water sphere, single player against one AI King.
I used 'water walking' on one of my heroes and put him on a river inside enemy's domain, as an unreachable sentinel, ...

The AI dispelled the enchantment.

_{Edit: sorry for the off-topic note.}

[This message has been edited by Unnapu (edited 03-15-2010 @ 11:48 PM).]

Yes, I'd known human opponents do it but I was quite surprised when the AI did it to me

nah, it's one of those things where the AI shows it has some intelligence. It allso likes to "wildfire" units which are using a path of frost as a bridge...

I don't really have favourite combinations, but I usually pick some death to get dark gift.

And in 1.4 I use awfully lot Dark Elves.

I always(quite fair to say) use multi sphere.

I realize I'm a bit late to the party, but I thought I'd throw in my two cents.

I use a slightly modified version of the UPatch 1.4; the only difference from the original version is that mine adds back in most of the spirit quest spell rewards taken out by 1.4. (E. g., Order can grant Sacred Wrath in my games; Nature can grant Static Shield). I did bar War's access to Chaos Lord, though, since Magic can already grant this.

And on we go...

Humans/Peace Keeper
Draconians/Peace Keeper

These combinations are based on the fact that, by and large, I have always found something enjoyable or useful about all of the available races. While individual units in certain races do give me pause (e. g.: due to their Path abilities [Frost and Decay, respectively], I generally only use doom wolves [frostlings] and dread reapers [undead] for garrison duty and climate control), I find no fault with the races as a whole.

For that reason, I tend to avoid migrating races in my games, especially in the early stages. (The only time I'll do so is to obtain access to a race possessed by one of my allies; I almost always play using the "allied victory" option in my random games.) Peace Keeper- in combination with a neutral starting race- allows me to take over most of the independent cities around me with a minimum of fuss.

I especially favor humans, for their Air Galleys, Knights, and Chaplains. While I'm not that crazy about the humans' Willpower ability gained from the Chapter House (since it can be neutralized by Drain Will), I can get much use out of the Chaplain's Bard's Skills ability.

I also favor draconians, for their Red Dragons, Elders and Regeneration ability (gained from the Hydra's Pool); indeed, the draconians' Regeneration is my favorite special building "add-on" ability among all of the races that get one. (To my mind, only the Orcs' "Life Stealing" add-on is comparable.) Draconians, being natural Shadow Walkers, can also explore the Shadow Plane immediately, without me needing to waste time and mana on the Shadow Walking spell.

Humans/Constructor

Honestly, I don't use this set-up very often; I risk not having access to Peace Keeper until very late in the game- and I have to remember not to research Conqueror (an "opposing" skill for Peace Keeper in UPatch 1.4) in the meantime. Still, Constructor- because of its additional research cost vs. other single-pick abilities (700 vs. 500)- is a viable starting pick for me. This allows me to see to all of my building needs faster than normally possible- and earlier in the game, to boot.

I'll choose Humans (a neutral race) under this set-up; with their natural race bonus, and a Shrine of Order (which I almost always build in most of my cities), I can end up with 120 building points per day at my disposal. (This can come in quite handy for building fighting units, as well as magic items for my heroes.)

With respect to my magic picks: While I appreciate many of the more powerful spells in each sphere, my personal style favors the less expensive Levels 1 and 2 enchantment/unit spells (each sphere has at least one such spell that interests me, e. g., Life's Bless and Earth's Stone Skin). I'll use these spells on my heroes (and select units) to convert them from "limp noodles" into a viable fighting force (and for maintenance, in the case of Life's Healing spell).

For that reason, I tend to go with a classic cosmic spellbook, i. e., one of each sphere. This set-up usually grants me access to at least some of my favorite spells within the first several game days. (However, since my only essential Water spell is Static Shield- and as a Level Two spell, I only have a 20% chance of seeing this in my spell book without additional Water picks [no pun intended]- I will occasionally dump Water in favor of a different sphere, to gain access to some of its more powerful spells as well as increasing my chances of receiving my favorite enchantments. Typically, I'll go with Life here, to increase my chance of getting Bless and Healing.)

[This message has been edited by GLWizard (edited 04-01-2010 @ 03:32 PM).]

Thanks for the analysis

I'm a big fan of giving all wizards in a map 'anarchist', because it seems to be the only way to get the races to feel like separate races. It also decreases the importance of seduce/trap/dominate, (which are too powerful and unbalancing in most cases, IMHO) etc..., and increases the importance of 'bard skills'.
I'm also a fan of forcing negative skills on wizards, since it seems to give a better feel of culture/differences. It makes things much less homogeneous (a big problem in aow I feel).


as far as preferences, I prefer 'scholar', unless I know the game will take under 30 turns. Stick me with any race or sphere combination, although I find that undead trump orcs & goblins, syrons trump shadow demons (which made the whole SM campaign seem silly to me), & humans trump dracos (to a lesser degree).

Here's one I've found that is surprisingly effective, especially in short games: Orcs, 4 fire 2 death (although you could probably reverse that, never tried), with Enchanter, Anarchist, Conqueror (you could replace Conqueror with Constructor too).

The idea here is just indomitable units. With that sphere combination, you're usually looking at Dark Gift and Fury, on top of Enchant Weapon, and there's a good chance of Unholy Darkness and Fire Halo, and a decent shot at Unholy Champion.

I'll usually get a couple of Axemen to take surrounding structures (since in most RMGs structures are defended by ranged and pole arm), then immediately get a War Hall and start producing Heavy Cavalry. 7 of those with Enchant Weapon, Fury and Dark Gift (which, if you're lucky, should be appearing in your research book early on, and one of them should even be starting spell) plus a similarly enchanted hero is enough to take down one other wizard at least.

Here I go against the grain and start pumping out Warlords rather than Shamen, after pausing to get a Shrine of War and Blood Totem. With Conqueror the Warlords should be Gold medal after a couple of battles, leaving you with units that are 19 ATT and 17 DAM (boosted to 20 (21?) and 18 with Unholy Darkness, and a frightening 20/20 against good units if you want to bother with Unholy Champion), plus the opportunity to do 50% more damage after Cursing an enemy, plus life stealing and extra strike. Their defence is nothing to scoff at, either. The unit becomes terrifying (I had two of them slaughter an army of Runemasters, Boar Riders and Earth Elementals, with full health at the end).

Of course, the low resistance is still a huge issue. Surprisingly, though, most races have few Res-targeting units. Against Undead, for example, you have only the Necromancer to fear IIRC. Against Dwarves and Humans? Nothing but priests. Still, some races (Elves with their Entangle, Tigrans, Draconians, Archons, Dark Elves) have a lot of options and are pretty popular, too. Plus there are spells. This is where Fire Halo comes in, as it makes you immune to many of the Res-targeting attacks of Tigrans, Draconians, and Fire Wizards. Unfortunately, there isn't much to do with the others but trust in your high health and lifestealing (you can easily count on a Warlord killing a Druid and Elder in one round, and probably a Mystic too. The trick is getting up there). The other option is to balance your army out with something else.

The reason why I like 4 Fire is for those pesky moments when you run into cities guarded by massive amounts of Hatchlings, which can cause surprising problems for your Warlords. But with a good chance at Fireball and a decent chance at Hellfire, you can eliminate those threats yourself, pretty easily. Of course, that's a gamble, and if that doesn't pan out you might find yourself relying on stuff like Swarm.

Anyway, this army can be absolutely terrifying and can get you a quick win, especially if the enemy is unprepared. Orcs have a crappy lvl 4 unit but those Warlords can take on most lvl 4s and win, not to mention spells like Forge Blast, Wither, and possibly even City Plague allowing you to cut down your enemy's production and keep them from reaching their top-tier units.

I'm a big fan of Humans with a couple Air & the rest Fire. As far as a skill pick goes I suppose I never had a terrific grasp of what is going to be the most impactful early in the game, constructor I guess? Honestly w/ the potency of skill research often trumping the research of additional spells once you have a working arsenal I never thought too hard of it. I'll ususally pick that or enchanter as I feel that enchantments, with their' low base cost, are the fastest way to add real potency to the battle field.

My main reason for a couple air is the seeker enchantment. In end games when I'm roving around the map carrying cannons in airships that all have seeker & Enchant weapon - any unit on the battlefield is liable to 10+ damage per round from each cannon regardless of whether or not it's behind trees, hills, or a city wall. (on a side note the repeater ballista is an extremely dissapointing siege unit compared to the cannon). tier 0 crossbowman are easy to churn out and generally effective throughout the game due to the very high attack score of crossbow single shot. Human infantrymen have among the best stats for a tier 1 and Block. +5 defense, though intermittantly, but on all missile attacks is just ridiculous. Bringing us to the knight who is, imo, the strongest unit tier 3 has to offer for any race - holds his own w/ tier 4's while having half the cost. Furthermore ending on the Air Galley. Sure that archon colossus is impressive and what not but when it comes to a late game a few things are true of your circumstances:

Its easy to get more mana than can be readily used
It's hard to get more gold than can be readily used
Summoned units, with their' large base mana cost in addition to upkeep are an extremely slow enforcement to the battle field.

This being said a army consisting entirely of high tier units is extremely unlikely and rather silly considering the potentially complimentary abilities of a mixed army. This being the case, with the varied movement speed of your mixxed army and potentially slow unit dragging down the stack: the end tier transport becomes pretty easily the most useful tier 4 unit type in the game.

I'm hard pressed to think of another race's army that could, for a similar gold & mana expenditure trump a stack of Knights, a monk or two, a swashbuckler for taunt, cannons & an air galley that all have seeker, enchant weapon & fury (where applicable).

[This message has been edited by Dbmusa (edited 05-25-2010 @ 02:17 PM).]

Survivalist with draconians. Sometimes i use undead with anarchist, explorer and conquerors, the ideal to make fast attacks