You get 10 power points for research - not for casting. Casting points are too valuable generally for buffing units or summons, or global spells to worry about casting alter node. I dont think I ever use it...

I do use it, the extra research very handy in the begin as your mana income is mostly low , you can't provide any high mana taking units so just cast alter node , faster research and more mana income available

Thanks for your insight, boys.

ibobs, there is a number of maps where magic is limited, whether because there are city construction limits, few cities, few Nodes, few or no Magic Vaults, no Catalysts, etc. In these maps, if you get Alter Node, if you get it early on (which happens quite often) and have 2 or 3 Nodes nearby, it may be worth it to Alter them.
Usually I'm not able to cast spells from start continually except for huge maps, where expansion is fast and mana is not a problem.

I do think it is a useful spell, but I would only research and use it in games that I expect to last a while.

I do think it is a useful spell, but I would only research and use it in games that I expect to last a while.

Yes, that's my view too.

That's one of the last spell that I'd research. 60 CP is too valuable for me to waste. At early stage, it means 2 or 3 days of waiting. At middle stage, CP is often used for summons or buffs. At last stage, my mana stock is usually in abundance and research points at this time are much less needed.

I'll use it if the cost is around 35-40 CP.

I'm glad I see two illustrious gamers agreeing with my point of view.

Hi naecO!
I used Alter Node a lot in our recent AoW:SM Random 46_UGL, eheh! Changed 3 Nodes for myself around turn 20, then changed 2 or 3 others for Charx after we forged alliance, around turns 30-35 (everybody was Chaos Sphere, IIRC). We both kept our nodes intact and in our possession until... you ended our miserable lives, between turns 60 and 70!!! So this wasn't my best example of its usefulness, was it?

But I definitively think it was worth it.

edit: typo

[This message has been edited by albinscott (edited 04-01-2010 @ 09:27 PM).]

My wizard was having 500+ mana by the time I took over the game. When the game ended, it was about 10000+

I can see using it in very specific, limited cases, but 99%+ of the time, it just is not worth it. I find the time required to research it and the casting points needed are much more wisely spent doing other stuff in nearly all cases.

That said, let it be known that my style does not really rely on much magic; I need a combat spell, a summon, a buff (usually enchant weapon), and dispel magic (if my opponent is big into buffs). The rest of my time goes into upgrading my wizard until late game stages, when I'm usually swimming in mana.

Mana is readily abundant in almost every map, especially if you can expand, explore, and hold areas of the map early.

One thing that would make it more worthwhile (& I'm not sure if it does or does not do it since I've never experienced it) would be if a wizard had a mastery spell cast, and 'alter node' would switch the node type and get rid of that wizard's domain around the node. Even then, I find mastery spells really rare anyway (but I don't like/play huge, mega-populated maps anyway)... players are usually too busy researching and casting smaller stuff trying to get ahead, and whoever cast a mastery spell gets ganged up on anyway. Its a very ballsy spell.

Alter Node won't remove the magic domain around the magic node under Mastery spell. Razing the node is so far the only way to remove the domain.

I'd really like to see Alter Node mana cost lowered in the next patch as it would be useful in early game stage (more research points). In long epic games, the spell hardly worth casting as mana in later stage is rarely an issue.

@naecO: Your most favorable late subbing position in the random game was an abnormality, derived from a certain white-bearded wizard's insanity and stubbornness Rheno (Skulkan) has surely played his way nicely very early, since by turn 28, when Unnapu was killed, he was already saying that the Orcs had huge armies. Should Gabriel and myself had managed to hold our alliance, you would have found worthy opponents to fight with against. But I must agree that mana would always be in excess for you, most probably.

@greenmonster: Thanks for dropping by! Perhaps Alter Node is more useful for weak or average wizards, and not for the top wizards who dominate a particular game. This is consistent with a few games I've/I am playing: Random 4_6 UGL, Ancient Times, Fight for Light (playing the Halflings), Alpine Alliance, Race to Death: Walker's Crusade (to a lesser extent, since there are so many Nodes and Magic Vaults).
Dominating wizards seem to have mana excess and cruiser-speed research from a fairly early moment in the game. And, of course, the bigger the map, the more obvious this becomes.
Perhaps I lack the experience of holding a dominant position in medium or large maps to know that for sure, but my recent Lords of Celederion game (playing the Halflings), where there are no Nodes or MV, seems to confirm it: by turn 50 I was having around 300 research, 1500 mana stock and +150/turn. All this derived from city development alone. However, should the map have less settlements or city growth/development limits, things could be very different.

[This message has been edited by albinscott (edited 04-10-2010 @ 01:38 PM).]

If you have limited city development, a large map and a long game, the spell could very well be useful. Given the mechanics of AoW2 and then AoW:SM, it is less efficient by far than it was probably meant to be.

The background on this spell actually comes from AoW1, where nodes could not be altered by any means. If you didn't have a specific kind of magic or your ally didn't, the best option was to just raze nodes to the ground to deny them to an enemy. You'd get no benefit from them.

Since the only sources of mana were generic power nodes, sphere specific nodes and spellcasting heroes (5 points per level of casting), there wasn't usually all that much mana to go around and it didn't accumulate too quickly.

Alter Node was (by that very same name) actually a development suggestion for AoW1 in one feature request thread on a forum that far predated this one. I know, since I made that suggestion myself. I was pleasantly surprised to find that it had been included in AoW2, but as has been discussed here, the other mechanics render it far less useful.