Oh no here it comes again

Recolored heroes!

Most of my suggestions are to do with units and terrain, as I don't know much about balance or coding, and am not even going to try to talk about them..

Anyways, I hope I can contribute somehow to this patch(if it ever is released)!

-'dark area' tiles for wasteland & shadowland, as they're the only ones that don't have them. IMO, neither terrain is all *that* dark, and it'd be nice to not have these tiles deleted when you're painting areas over with different terrains just to see what happens...
-On another note, I'd like to see some more shadowland terrains, and more structure recolors for every terrain(including, if possible, some of the original structures. I find it kind of hard to believe that a Frostling city can remain snowy in the freakin' desert.)

-Heroes like the Dark Elves' spider, and the Draconians' lizard are awesome! But the good races didn't get *any* of these. Would like to see some special heroes for good races, please.
Also, perhaps a vampire-like, or more obviously feminine hero for the undead?

Also, this doesn't have anything to do with *this* patch, but in the new SEM, I don't think Bombard can be selected for heroes, wizards or items(or at least one of these).

Lizardmen?

It would be cool to see different heroes for different classes and genders. I'm afraid about the amount of work, so just consider this as a sweet dream.
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Racial ships is a nice idea.
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Instead of adding new units I suggest making new bodies for some of present ones. Those that imho deserve replacement: human herbalist, halberdier, light cavalry. Chaplain has too big ears for human race. His cape is like a magician's hat and looks a little strange. Low level goblin, halfling, some draconian units have a toy appearence. You may dislike the idea, but I suggest to remove all non-original recolored units. Just leave only unique ones not to mess the game. All those recolored repetitions turn the patch into a mode made by fans rather than by professionals. Recolored units may be used if there were a structure, which upgrades units. An "Upgraded Barracks", "Upgraded War Hall", "Upgraded Champions Guild" or just "Blacksmith" which replace (for example) "swordsmen" and "crossbowmen" with "heavy swordsmen" and "heavy crossbowmen". As this was in HoMM2 and HoMM3. So if it would be possible to make a high level building, which alters recruits from corresponding low level building - this would be fantastic! (But this is a too big change to the game )
But like these were in Master of Magic, it would be cool to have these new buildings: blacksmith (adds to att/def, or replaces units with better stats), alchemist's guild (gives magic strike), War Academy (produces veteran units), Granary (increases population's growth). Is it possible to give the effect of war shrine to champion's guild? So that it may benefit AI and war shrine could be equally rebalanced with other shrines.
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Perhaps bowmen should lose ability "strike" once again. AI bowmen suffer much while having useless 2/2 melee attack.
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It would be cool if races have two sets of buildings and units - one for human player and the other udjustable for AI. Or anything which may give AI some more benefits.
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It would be also nice to have expanded editor's abilities to make possible to rename abilities, spells, add such abilities as healing 2 and others.
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If there will be a campaign it would be nice to have something like AoW1 campaign with variety of choices, which result in different endings.
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Now not every artifact has a corresponding image for event window...
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Imho, in almost every case, patch 1.4. gives everything that anybody may want. Seriously, there is no special need in 1.5. Everything that is "missed" may be "fixed" in mods.
But if 1.5. starts may I suggest to "dig deeper" instead of "digging wide".
May be we don't need a big 1.5. work but a little cosmetic 1.41 would be enough? Like "fixing" faery dragons and similar little problems. If there be just a little update to patch, then there would appear for download the whole new file of the patch and a small file-addon for those who already have downloaded original 1.4.

[This message has been edited by Webusver (edited 12-29-2005 @ 02:37 AM).]

Hmm....well, how about this one item ability:

I call it, "Share Magic".

Basically, any enchantment cast on the hero applies to the whole stack as well.

If I cast "Enchanted Weapon" on a hero with a stack of five Big Beetles, for example, the Big Beetles will now have EW as well.

Any enchantment cast on the hero bearing this item will automatically apply for the rest of the stack with no additional mana cost. (Or maybe a teensy bit more?)

However, this is not something you could create in an "Item Forge". Only one or two such items can exist in a single scenario. Also, it might make for interesting "search" scenarios.

Anyhow, what do you guys think of such an item ability?

Too hard-coded to create, I presume?

I dont know if its possible but i think it would be really great if you could add all the new buildings and enhancements to the random map generator for use in MP games. Make it an option that can be toggled so if someone is whining about not liking the new structures the host can shut him up quickly.

I already remarked it, but with problem of adding new buildings, it is even more important.

If it is possible to create map converter from AOW1 to AOW2, custom map generator could be created.
http://aow.heavengames.com/cgi-bin/forums/display.cgi?action=ct&f=29,4800,30,60
You tell very much about balance, but RMG is so unbalanced, that if one starts with many gold mines and towns in domain while another has only one town, it is not very much important, which races they play.

I should have tested this before posting, but I /think/ I'm right that the human chaplain stats haven't been changed in 1.4

IMO they are pretty useless units as is; they will get leadership II with silver and that can be useful if you put them in a stack with strong melee units, but still, are they worth it?

I suggest they are upgraded so they start with leadership II, get III at silver and IV at gold. That would make it worthwhile to actually produce them and give a little more meaning to the human special building (good detail to let it give a mana bonus btw).

I hope nobody thinks this would make humans too strong; I don't think it would, also remember that any player who gets a human town can get this advantage, and leadership III is still available from brains, chieftains, heroes and possibly other units that I've forgotten

No, please no more leadership for any unit! In AoW 2 the halfling sheriff was unique, because the other races did not have a unit that started with leadership and bards' skills. Now it is easier to tell which race does not have such a unit, than which race has one.

What is this good for? Are runemasters, spider queens or chieftains too weak without it? I don't think so. These are pretty powerful units. What is the purpose of giving them leadership, except to make the sheriff obsolete?

Apart from this, I like the idea of racial boats. How about a turtle ship (like the korean one in AoE) for the dwarves?

I also suggest to create a new TC map for dungeons. Maybe it could be divided into two parts (separated by a wall, for example), to symbolize that it might work as a doorway.

[This message has been edited by Knallwinkel (edited 01-01-2006 @ 08:01 AM).]

1. To make low-level units more viable in later-game situations and add more flexibility, I suggest the following buildings paired with these respective new traits:
- Armory: Requires Barracks, Builder's Hall; bestow all level 1 units (best would be to make an individual list) who enter the city with the skill ArmorI.
- Smithy: Requires Barracks, Siege Workshop; bestows all level 1 and level 2 units which enter the city with the skill Sharpened WeaponsI.
- ArmorI, II, and III: best would be to make this skill reduce 1, 2 and 3 hp of damage respectively from any physical damage that would be bestowed upon its target. That would make the skill useful for some higher-level monsters too. If this is too difficult, than it should just add +1, 2 or 3 defense.
- Sharpened WeaponsI should add +1 Att.

Other buildings in this style, whose purpose is to give existing units a boost for a certain resource investment, could be imagined. This, I think, is a typical tech-tree advancement scheme which, I think, is done well in other games (consider WarcraftIII for instance) is otherwise missing in AOW.

2. You mentioned in another post that altering Movement Point Cost for other terrains is difficult because hard-coded; still, I would have liked to suggest maybe trying some algorithm work-around which simply reduces MP for walking units without the appropriate "survivability" trait? That would make the maps much more innovative.

3. I tend to agree with the post here http://aow.heavengames.com/cgi-bin/forums/display.cgi?action=ct&f=29,4811,0,60that single damage types could be reconsidered in 1.5, since it makes some units very difficult to use.

4. HOTKEYS! My post here http://aow.heavengames.com/cgi-bin/forums/display.cgi?action=ct&f=29,4810,30,60tries to raise some questions, but I would kill for the ability to cycle through towns with a hotkey, or even better assign towns a hotkey 1-9. Oh, there is so much I would LOVE to be able to do with the keyboard!!!!!

THank you very much in advance for your time and energy!

The racial boats idea is neat. I'd like recoloured heroes too.

Maybe this isn't exactly relevant, but is it possible to make the map and resources editor a little bit more user-friendly? Especially the resources editor.

new buildings would be nice, new units that can be built even better, and lizardmen too.

but a random map generator that could use the new units and tiles would be great

how about some new movies as an introduction for the new campaigns.

I think that would be a little too hard to do.

Nope, is possible.

Any actors available here?

If you mean voice actors, I have a mic and I could probably voice Halflings or whatever race an Irish accent would be suitable for

I wonder if anyone noticed I was gone ...

Ah well, I don't mind playing some (dead) elf/frostling in the background then... Think an Irish accent should fit well on a leprechaun :P

Jamie was actually trying to get an intro movie for his new map (that I, btw, have left unfinished on my HD somewhere *biggrin*).

We would have to do something like AoW1, did. Pictures, sound and moving the camera. Of course, someone that is good with movies. Rendering professional 3D images ourselves in this 'spoiled' era of 3D movies, of course, would take too much time for a pleasing effect.

Personally, I have always prefered the AoW1 ones.

Ok, enough offtopic for me.

Of course, more heroes and Wizards would be interesting as well. One of the reasons why we didn't have many more extra heroes was time constraints and the hope that better graphics would be available in the future.

Sul, Russian with an Irish accent?

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I've been living in Ireland for almost five years, the accent is starting to rub off on me

Well, I have done some modest voice acting professionally a few years ago (for VW and SLP), but I have no access to a studio here. If you desperately need someone for English or German, you could contact me.

Otherwise...continuing my poor post from above...

5. I think Aow:SM could profit further from more disjunct building options -- they are fun and make you think instead of just climbing the same old tech tree again and again. Examples of these we already have in the Shrines: In City X, you can build a Shrine of War but not another shrine once you do. In the same vein, one could consider something like
- Fountain of Fertility: increases growth.
- Garden of Everlasting Beauty: Requires FoF: Increases Nymph "charm" attack rating.

- Astrological Dome: Requires Mage Tower: increases mana production
- Great Telescope: Requires AstDome: reduces casting cost of all air spells

- Archer's Hall: Requires Barracks: Increases range of all ranged units who visit the town
- Roost of the Magic Chicken Hawk: Requires Archer's Hall: The feathers of these hawks allow arrows to find their mark better; increase accuracy of all archers visiting the town by 1.

etc. whereby players may only build one such a tech direction per town, e.g. either a FoF and subsequent buildings or a AD and subsequent buildings or an AH etc.

Alternatively, one could imagine coupling 4 types of tech buildings along these lines, the prerequisites of each would be the existing Shrines, e.g.

Shrine of War > Archer's Hall > etc.
Shrine of Nature > Garden of Beauty > etc.
Shrine of Order > Smithy > etc.
Shrine of Magic > Astrological Dome etc.

Great idea, since it will encourage people to build Shrines. I usually don't bother with them - the quests are time-consuming and are usually given at the worst time possible.

I bother with shrines, but I haven't played anything but dwiggs for months so I'm a little out of touch with the standard rules, level 4 units is dwiggs are much more rare, so the chance to get them for free is not to be taken lightly, haha.

Eh, at least you've played. I've just dug the game out of a suspicious-looking pile of books in my room. This is the first time in roughly a year that I've played properly

OMG! Sul!

I usually keep my books and cds seperate, otherwise I'd end up trying to put a book i my cd drive... but that's just me. Anyways, get the uPatch. It's a HUGE improvement, and seems to have renewed some interest in SM... I mean, we're all arguing about it again, right?

[This message has been edited by psykitty (edited 01-03-2006 @ 10:52 AM).]

Got the UPatch, messed around on a map as Dwarves, remembered why I like Elves better. Going to re-play the campaign as soon as I get all my English homework out of the way.

Quoted from Sul:

Thanks from me and... where's TruePurple ?

2 swolte:
1) in 1.5 UPatch will there be "No Exe Mods" rule too ?
2) what about "Max Scenario Compatibility" rule (unit built in city list, etc), will this be like in 1.4 UPatch ? Or just the same structures in the same resources slots ?

3) conception: will it be overriding patch only (hence (1) ans (2) ?) or expansion pack ?

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Well, that would be one of the things we would need to get some more 'unofficial support' for. It would be interesting, but it would make the product a lot more susceptable to bugs as well. Also, is it really needed?

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Well, this is inherent to a patch, so yes. Come to think about it, these are heavy limitations. Making a mod is much more fun, you also don't have to try to make everybody as happy as possible.

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Overwriting, like v1.5.

Anyway, nothing is set in stone.

Quoted from swolte:

Yes, it is. There is a very long [reasonable] wishlist from gamers that cannot be satisfied without some EXE-mod. I think you did your best in 1.4 to solve some balance problems, but the next step cannot be done without more radical changes.

I got AoW:SM for Christmas, haven't installed it yet, downloaded 1.4 already, and there's something that swolte suggested that I would like to do for the 1.5 patch:

The AoW1 music.

Now, the AoW1 music is in Impulse Tracker module format - basically a MIDI file where you can use any sound(s) as an instrument.

The problem is, a lot of the songs have all the panning exactly the same - dead center. I've made my own modifications to the AoW1 music to add surround effects and better panning variations. I'd be happy to redo it and send samples of it; my Gmail username is alphasigmax - just include AoW in the subject.

That be great, Alphax!
We can pick two songs, or something.

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Next to more obvious 'A_legal issues' (TS would probably not put a link to it on their website, then) and the risk of more 'B_heavy duty bugs', there are more reasons why those wishes must really be worth it:
'C_v1.3a:' As most know, there are two exe versions of v1.3 used that were released. (Moderater Notice: Let this be all for now on that topic here)
'D_File size increase:' we will basically have to add another 7 MB to an already 40 MB file. These are 5 high quality new units! I hate to say it but for a generally accepted patch, I already had problems having had people pull those 40 MB down their wires. A patch should be one file that updates the entire game, imo (no parts that only update v1.4: keep it as simple as possible!)

Anyway, those wishes must be really worth it and alternatives to achieve the same means have a much higher priority. There are a number of things soo annoying in this game that they might be worth it, like:
- The boat crashing bug
- Catalyst exploit
- Fixing Campaign creation bugs

All those could, in theory, be fixed with exe changes, but I am afraid that we lack the skill to do so anyway without the sourcecode (and no, AoW series had only one main programmer and it wasn't me, unfortunately... ). This is not as simple as changing some number around.

As far as I know, I have yet to see a realistic list that would be worth risking ABCD for.
But who knows what the future might solve!

[This message has been edited by swolte (edited 01-04-2006 @ 11:51 AM).]