Unofficial Patch V1.5 - Plans and suggestions

Topic Subject: Unofficial Patch V1.5 - Plans and suggestions

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Swolte
AOWH/AOW2H Seraph

posted 12-28-05 11:51 AM EDT (US)

Note: This thread is meant to provide news about the progress of the v1.5 project. Suggestions are welcome, although more threads will be made in the future to make the information flow more fluent.
If at all possible, keep the thread a summary of ideas with a short explanation. Try and keep discussion on a topic minimal and make a thread and link to it, if you think your topic is up for discussion. Remember that suggestions are meant as a patch and the aim is wide acceptance by the AoW-community. This means that changes must be in line and compatible with existing maps and campaigns. In addition, gameplay changes should take Online, Play by Email and Single Player into account. This is different from a mod that is able to change large gaming concepts or is made for whomever is interested.

PLAN FOR UNOFFICIAL PATCH: VERSION 1.5

WHY DEVELOP AN UNOFFICIAL PATCH V1.5?
- To keep interest in Age of Wonders alive!!
- To keep improving aspects of the game.
- To keep the game interesting and dynamic on a competitive level.
- To dramatically improve the possibilities for mapmakers and modders.
- To enhance community involvement.

HOW CAN I HELP?
The development forums are here and everyone who wants to can sign up and contribute! Core members will be admitted by invitation only.

WHEN WILL IT BE RELEASED?

Since the project isn't a financially sponsored or paid endeavour, we have no strict deadline. The patch will not be a rushed product and the necessary time will be taken to fix issues and thoroughly test balance changes. Delays are possible and may take as long as months.

EXPECTED RELEASE DATE:
Currrently undetermined

WHAT IS POSSIBLE?
The teammembers will consist of very able people in the modding/playing/mapmaking/writing world that are capable of working in teams. What is possible will largely depend on the qualities of the teammembers and rules we allow ourselves to break. Decisions regarding some of these issues, as you may understand, are not allowed to be discussed in public on these forums. Please email me at swolte at gmail dot com with questions regarding copyright, hacks, etc...

In terms of additions to the game, v1.5 will be much bolder than v1.4 was.

********************WHAT IS PLANNED SO FAR?********************
This list may be expanded.

CAMPAIGN + Campaign Editor (35% complete)
The campaign will consist out of many linked maps replacing the old campaign (yes, you will be able to switch back and forth). The basic campaign structure therefore is linear but the internal design will allow for as much (perhaps even more than expected...) freedom.
We'll also attempt a campaign editor that actually works so users can make campaigns themselves a lot easier

MORE BUGFIXES (80% complete)

Fixes

RACIAL BOATS/PIONEERS/MACHINES (55% complete)
v1.5 will be a bit bolder in the sense that we will add and replace some existing units. Perhaps only with a couple of races.
- Racial Boats
- Racial Machines
- Racial Pioneers
- Extra Builder unit at Mastery Guild for some Constructor races.

This picture shows Bilge rats (the new Goblin Transport 'boat') transporting nasty Goblins and Kobolds to the human wharf. The peasants and defending pikeman are fleeing for safety towards the old mining tunnel.

NEW HEROES FOR CLASS (80% complete)
This will be the biggest change planned as it will impact gameplay as well as game feel. The intention is to replace existing hero classes with unique graphics (keeping some, but replacing most...). We have decided to go for it, in full force.
Discussion here.

ADDITIONAL WIZARDS and ITEMS. (85% complete)
Some new items and Wizards will be added to the standard library. This means that these can now also show up in the Random Map Generator.

NEW MAPS. (30% complete)
These are maps that will come with the patch. They will show some of the new editor features that will otherwise not be available when playing the game.

This picture shows more water based tiles and units. The whirlpool can suck in even the giant seamonster. On land, there is a fortress holding many magical creatures. and a Seer sees trouble from afar, when a Spiked Maw is flinching its three large, and deadly spikes on his back

MORE NEW UNITS/STRUCTURES/TERRAIN. (80% complete)
Especially mapmakers and single-players will be treated the most with these additions. None of the existing possibilities will be altered or changed. These can be considered as bonuses and have no effect on playing existing maps. Mapmakers can add them at will, the advantage is that a lot of work by fans and hidden opportunities of mapmakers will now be directed supported and easily accessible by everyone.
- New units will also now be available in standard structures (as defenders or recruits), as spirit rewards/infidels.

NEW RACES + RACE SWITCHER (~ temporarily stopped ~)
Another ambitious project is the race switcher. This utility will let you play new races (also in rmg) at the cost of switching one.
Some new races planned:
- Demons
- Gnomes
- Beast
- Fairy
- Lizard

This will be the last priority. If the patch's release is delayed too much, we may opt to do this as a future add-on.

********************WHO WILL BE INVOLVED?********************
These teams will be elaborated as time goes on. This is the current status. Vacant positions will be posted in this thread.

Map Team
This team is the core design team for the campaign
- Morgul666
- Swolte
- A
- Enginerd
- Nyarlathotep
- Albaron

Graphics design Team
This team will create units and structures for the game!
- PawelS
- Swolte
- The_Groll
- Albaron
- Achilles Reborn
- Beastfeast
- TravisII
- MagicIceFlame

Technical Support
- PawelS

NOTES
- This patch will be larger in size than the previous one. For v1.4, size was a restriction for certain additions and for v1.5 we're gonna let that go completely. Especially now that we are adding movies to the Campaign, hitting 500 MB is possible.

Get the unofficial Patch v1.4. here!
My best AoW-Sm map: Drums of Death (This is the multiplayer version; for single player, or AI use different version)
Other proud AoW-sm maps: The Key of Kharzul, The Fight for Light, Waikiti Island, Goldrush Mountains
My proud AoW2 maps:The River Arne
Coordinator of the v1.4 and v1.5 patchteams, Seraph of AoWHeaven, PBEM Singles Champion 2008

[This message has been edited by Swolte (edited 10-16-2011 @ 12:47 PM).]

Author

Replies:

crpggeek
Member

posted 09-14-10 06:26 AM EDT (US) 1741 / 2787

A question from you kind souls that have taken upon yourself to support this gem of a game from a longtime lurker...

Is all the content you are adding in Upatch 1.5 going to have single player random map support or is this just for the multiplayer/PBEM folks?

Many of us do not do wargames through multiplayer for various reasons (ie: long games, dropper players, prefer sandbox environments, personal preference, etc.)

Also, are there any graphics update mods like Blue Marble is to Civ 4?

Thanks..

PawelS
Member

posted 09-14-10 09:12 AM EDT (US) 1742 / 2787

You can play SP games on random maps, but the AI isn't good enough to make such games challenging, and we can't improve the AI without access to the source code.

If you want enjoyable SP games on random maps, try Civ5 (it'll be released a week from now).

Most of the new content won't appear on random maps, but can be used by the mapmakers on custom maps (including SP ones).

A proud member of the Unofficial Patch team.
Creator of the AoW1 Mod.

[This message has been edited by PawelS (edited 09-14-2010 @ 09:13 AM).]

Witty Username
Member

posted 09-21-10 09:51 PM EDT (US) 1743 / 2787

A small request: Could we get the version of the Willpower ability that is immune to Will Drain (found on Greater Demons, Soul Collectors, and of course Wizards) renamed? Something along the lines of Unimpeachable Will or somesuch? I don't know how possible this would be to implement, but I'd certainly be happier without two different abilities sharing a name.

PawelS
Member

posted 09-21-10 10:18 PM EDT (US) 1744 / 2787

Actually it's not a different version of Willpower, it's Drain Will that protects from Drain Will (wizards are immune for other reasons). There is only one Willpower ability, so we can't rename it for some units.

A proud member of the Unofficial Patch team.
Creator of the AoW1 Mod.

Griffith
Member

posted 09-22-10 07:47 AM EDT (US) 1745 / 2787

Actually there are several willpower abilities, if you count enchants and Crusader ability. I renamed Crusader to Clarity in CoMA mod, and it masks "Will Drained" condition, making unit effectively immune to all mind-control effects. But it's probably not suitable for uPatch because it would mean humans get this "Clarity" ability from racial building (unless racial stucture bonuses were changed), and also AI dont recognize the ability and will try to will drain the unit with Clarity to no avail.

Maker of the CoMA and Strange Lands mods.
Check out the AoW Chatroom

Swolte
AOWH/AOW2H Seraph

posted 09-25-10 09:31 AM EDT (US) 1746 / 2787

Quoted from Oleg-on-unmounted-heroes:
Hmmm, then there can be "items" giving Mounted perk and extra MPts

Also, one of the most unused hero upgrade 'health' may suddenly become more attractive as it also grants +4 MP next to the 2 HP.

By the way, what is the new campaign going to be about?

Currently, there is a story written and a couple of maps are ready. The story is rooted in the AoW1 history and it will be kept secret what it is about exactly.

However, we may have some major changes regarding campaign. Update will follow!

Is all the content you are adding in Upatch 1.5 going to have single player random map support or is this just for the multiplayer/PBEM folks?

As PawelS indicated, it will mostly be like it was in v1.4, so most of the new content won't appear in random maps.

However, we do plan to be make more use of some of the new content than we did in v14.

For example, in v15, some new units graphics:
- may be added to guards of standard structures.
- may be recruitable from standard recruit sites.
- may be offered as rewards from Spirits.
- may be seen as heroes.

Also, King David is currently working on improving the structure terrain versions of even standard structures where needed (some look really amazing!).

Henrysix
Member

posted 09-25-10 12:11 PM EDT (US) 1747 / 2787

Doesn't the 'health' upgrade already grant +4MP and +2HP?

PawelS
Member

posted 09-25-10 01:34 PM EDT (US) 1748 / 2787

I think Swolte meant that the +4 MP is not very useful for 40 MP heroes, especially when you have Explorer (in such case it only increases MP from 48 to 50), so adding some slower heroes is a good idea.

A proud member of the Unofficial Patch team.
Creator of the AoW1 Mod.

[This message has been edited by PawelS (edited 09-25-2010 @ 01:35 PM).]

Swolte
AOWH/AOW2H Seraph

posted 09-30-10 09:32 PM EDT (US) 1749 / 2787

Invisible nature quest stone!

Unnapu
Member

posted 10-01-10 08:23 AM EDT (US) 1750 / 2787

Quoted from Swolte:
Invisible nature quest stone!

LOL. It looks awesome!

albinscott
Member

posted 10-01-10 02:15 PM EDT (US) 1751 / 2787

It certainly does, but I hate invisible stuff: it was a pain trying to find all those hidden income structures in Swolte's Alpine Alliance III map; hovering the mouse all over the place is not fun - but the map is great, though!

Swolte
AOWH/AOW2H Seraph

posted 10-01-10 10:56 PM EDT (US) 1752 / 2787

Lol, just wait till you see the invisible teleporter!

Hmmm, Albin, there were no invisible structures in Alpine Alliance I remember... are you pulling my leg here, or did you not have the right ruleset installed?

Anyway, the 'invisible' project will allow mapmakers a lot of flexibility. Almost any (non)decorative object can be given a function a mapmaker wants in the editor.

naecO
Member

posted 10-02-10 03:04 AM EDT (US) 1753 / 2787

By invisible, perhaps he means the way you place the structures in the map (i.e. behind high mountain range)

The Groll does a lot of this kind of 'invisibility' in his maps

Not hard for AI to find, but human players can find it frustrating/intriguing

Tired of manually receiving/sending your PBEM turns everyday ? Try out Dave's PBEM Wrapper!

PawelS
Member

posted 10-02-10 07:09 AM EDT (US) 1754 / 2787

I agree with Albinscott, I hate structures hidden behind the mountains and other map objects, AoW shouldn't be a point-and-click game. And I think invisible structures will be used by some mapmakers for other purposes than you described (i. e. to confuse the player even more).

A proud member of the Unofficial Patch team.
Creator of the AoW1 Mod.

albinscott
Member

posted 10-02-10 08:19 AM EDT (US) 1755 / 2787

Oh, I thought this nature quest stone was hidden behind the tallest southern mountains... That is what I meant about Alpine Alliance map. So, it is literally invisible? (as, it is in the center of the all-round canyon)
If someone hovers the mouse over that hex, will it display any text on the bottom of the screen?

Swolte
AOWH/AOW2H Seraph

posted 10-02-10 08:32 AM EDT (US) 1756 / 2787

Hohooo!

*Jumps to his own defense!*

I find that very frustrating myself! Alpine Alliance is only a map I reworked in a day or so (read map descriptions, guys!). I missed those myself, probably.

But yes, a downside is that certain mapmakers can make their maps more 'intriguing' in that way, if they like. But they are not intended that way.

More like this:

So, the structure on the left can be anything you want. It is a decorative structure and if people want to make it a teleporter, that is possible. But if it fits better as a healing site in your map, so be it. Perhaps there is a bonus to be gained? (Catalyst, quest??).

The statue in the middle is another decorative one, but by placing an 'invisible' sign underneath it, mapmakers can add descriptions to almost anything.

The farm on the ~~left~~ right, is just a composite of several smaller decorative structures. Now it is a small income structure giving 10 GP every day.

So yes, it leaves room for confusion, but also opportunity. The invisible structures will therefore be placed in a more conspicuous place, with appropriate warnings and cautions. And we must also coach our mapmakers to use these sparsely, intuitively, and functionally!

[This message has been edited by Swolte (edited 10-02-2010 @ 08:58 AM).]

nyarlathotep
Member

posted 10-02-10 08:53 AM EDT (US) 1757 / 2787

the farm is on the right

Proud mapmaker for the UPatch team
One gas to rule them all, One gas to find them
One gas to bring them all and with the Spice we bind them
Creator of the following maps: RenaissanceEarth, RoadToHell, YeOfLittleFaith, FrostbiteDelirium, Stormy Seas
Co-creator for: CityDwellers together with TravisII

Swolte
AOWH/AOW2H Seraph

posted 10-02-10 08:58 AM EDT (US) 1758 / 2787

You're left! My brain must have been wired downside up. Changed.

[This message has been edited by Swolte (edited 10-02-2010 @ 09:01 AM).]

PawelS
Member

posted 10-02-10 09:09 AM EDT (US) 1759 / 2787

So maybe we should make all structures invisible, and make decorative objects with their graphics

Seriously, I prefer if the player knows what to expect from a structure when looking at it, without the need to click on it to find out what kind of invisible structure the mapmaker placed there. But I understand that some mapmakers may disagree with me and want to use such structures. I hope I can find a way to make them visible in the editor.

A proud member of the Unofficial Patch team.
Creator of the AoW1 Mod.

albinscott
Member

posted 10-02-10 11:11 AM EDT (US) 1760 / 2787

These features look very nice!

Sorry Steven, you're right about Alpine Alliance. But the hidden structures are there, and since you are the version author... I understand that you may have missed them yourself, of course

But I think I'm missing something, here: the original pic with the invisible stone quest showed no decorative object (so I assumed it was a hidden, not an invisible structure); in the 2nd pic, there are decorations "over" the invisible structures. The invisible structure may or may not come with a decoration, that's it?
What about hovering the mouse over it? Will it display text on the bottom of the game's main window?

Finally, I also agree with PawelS: I think any given graphical feature should have one and only one meaning, whether it is a teleporter, a farm, a healing site, whatever.

Swolte
AOWH/AOW2H Seraph

posted 10-02-10 11:55 AM EDT (US) 1761 / 2787

But I think I'm missing something, here: the original pic with the invisible stone quest showed no decorative object (so I assumed it was a hidden, not an invisible structure); in the 2nd pic, there are decorations "over" the invisible structures. The invisible structure may or may not come with a decoration, that's it?

Ha, no... that first picture was meant as a joke. I would never implement the structure like that. The 'invisible structures' do not come with decoration, they have no animation associated with them so mapmakers can add anything on top them the way that they see fit.

What about hovering the mouse over it? Will it display text on the bottom of the game's main window?

You can see them on the worldmap, and yes, they will also show up when you hover your mouse above them.

I call them invisible structures, but I see that is a minomer. They are not meant to be hidden from player's vision. They are a mapmaker tool for advanced mapmakers to have more possibilities.

Finally, I also agree with PawelS: I think any given graphical feature should have one and only one meaning, whether it is a teleporter, a farm, a healing site, whatever.

Usually its me who poopoos strange ideas from others to keep things simple and intuitive. But with this one, I still think the benefits outweigh the negatives.

As a mapmaker, what becomes challenging is that there are certain areas that you want to give some 'rarity value' - they are special. You want those to stand out, and with the limited amount of structures one can sometimes run out of options on big maps.
This allows some more freedom in that area. Mapmakers who understand those concerns raised above can even introduce such places with events, making it even more clear for players what to do. It fits better in story-driven maps (not so much in tournament maps, for example).

Anyway, we treat them as advanced mapmaker tools to be used with extreme rarity and caution. Note that these tiles are planned all the way at the back with the Shadowland terrain slots with some 'artificial' spaces in between and some 'warning' slots as well. New mapmakers won't even find 'm!

[This message has been edited by Swolte (edited 10-02-2010 @ 12:19 PM).]

you3
Member

posted 10-02-10 01:03 PM EDT (US) 1762 / 2787

Hum. I haven't read much of this thread to be honest but I noticed a comment above about "least used upgrade of health" or something like that.

I found this odd because health is one of the upgrades I almost take early after all keeping the hero alive is a fine attribute.

PawelS
Member

posted 10-02-10 02:08 PM EDT (US) 1763 / 2787

Increasing defense to 20 is a more efficient way of keeping a hero alive

A proud member of the Unofficial Patch team.
Creator of the AoW1 Mod.

morgul666
Member

posted 10-02-10 04:52 PM EDT (US) 1764 / 2787

I like the idea of having tiles that can have multiple functions!
I don�t know how often I ran out of possibilites during mapmaking...
And I also LOVE

hiding tiles behind mountains or under water etc... for a special reason: Sometimes you WANT it to be (almost) impossible that a certain "thing" e.g. a underground gateway or any other tile will be found by any player e.g. because it is e.g. the gate to a gigantic treasure or for whichever other reason.
Of course you could argue the fun�s out once it�s been detected by somebody but not everybody is communicating with everybody and not everybody checks the forums so the secret does not have to be made public to everybody as soon as the first uncovered it...
Of course, a mapmaker has to ensure that there IS a chance to uncover the secret e.g. via events or through whichever other insane idea

Author of the following maps for AOWSM:
Version 1.4: DEMONWARS II (Transcendence & Immortalis)
Version 1.3: (also playable in 1.4) Gates to another World 1.4
><-><-><- Planning replaces coincidence by error. -><-><-><-

Albaron
Member

posted 10-02-10 05:25 PM EDT (US) 1765 / 2787

I love the structure on the left and even more if it can have different features.

I would also appreciate, if there are much more decoration structures in 1.5. As well as some items just for gameplay, if you know what I mean. Items with no real function like levers, stones, etc.

I agree with morgul about the 'hidden' structures, but I understand the other point of view too. I'm also annoyed by such a thing, but hey we have to look carefully...

Swolte
AOWH/AOW2H Seraph

posted 10-02-10 06:51 PM EDT (US) 1766 / 2787

I would also appreciate, if there are much more decoration structures in 1.5. As well as some items just for gameplay, if you know what I mean. Items with no real function like levers, stones, etc.

Sounds good. We already implemented a lever. One that can actually switch by terrain changes (so that there is the possibility to script it with terrain-change events). Think that was KD's idea.

Let us know if you (or anyone) has specific wishes for decorative objects. We can easily add them to a 'brush tile' so they won't clog up too much space.
I am currently working on some statues.

[This message has been edited by Swolte (edited 10-02-2010 @ 07:00 PM).]

King David
Member

posted 10-02-10 11:59 PM EDT (US) 1767 / 2787

Think that was KD's idea

Nah, that was Swolte or Pawel's idea. I remember I had to ask Swolte for a clarification of his blueprint and he told me something like, "you know, a lever that can change terrain or cause an ice storm or something". We did design and implement one, though. Mapmakers should find it useful.

Author of the following maps for AOWSM:

Version 1.4 - Race To Death: Rise Of Evil
Version 1.3 (also playable in 1.4) - Race to Death S&M - Walker's Crusade ====== This Land Is My Land ====== War In The Valley

Proud member of the Upatch Team

Kirky Picardo
Member

posted 10-03-10 02:22 AM EDT (US) 1768 / 2787

I would also appreciate, if there are much more decoration structures in 1.5. As well as some items just for gameplay, if you know what I mean. Items with no real function like levers, stones, etc.

Sounds good. We already implemented a lever. One that can actually switch by terrain changes (so that there is the possibility to script it with terrain-change events). Think that was KD's idea.

Two such levers as well as numerous other objects which can be activated already exist in BNW mod.

The idea for these came from an e-mail discussion between Low_K, Timelord and myself. I had been adding new map objects for one of the updates when I asked the other two if there was any events mapmakers could use to activate objects/machinery, pull levers etc. I believe it was Timelord who mentioned it could be done with the change terrain event. So that's what I did, giving a preview via an animated gif of a player "activating" a few such objects by moving their hero onto them. This can be seen in the BNW thread in the mod making section:

http://aow.heavengames.com/cgi-bin/forums/display.cgi?action=st&fn=33&tn=5246&f=33,0,0,60&st=150

To check out one of the levers, one need simply download Roger's The Last Dwarf map. In sector 121:131:1 you see a lever with a pile of gold on top of it. When the player moves onto it the lever is pushed upward and you will have to face the Switch Man and his evil minions!

Cheers!

Kirky

[This message has been edited by Kirky Picardo (edited 10-03-2010 @ 02:58 AM).]

Swolte
AOWH/AOW2H Seraph

posted 10-03-10 08:37 AM EDT (US) 1769 / 2787

Nice work (as always, Kirky!). I better go read some of these threads again cause this makes me feel out of date!

albinscott
Member

posted 10-03-10 08:14 PM EDT (US) 1770 / 2787

Thanks for the clarifications, Swolte!
As in so many occasions, I tend to miss jokes... I guess I take everyone too seriously, eheh!

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Age of Wonders 2 Heaven » Forums » General Discussion & Suggestions » Unofficial Patch V1.5 - Plans and suggestions

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