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Topic Subject: [Group Project] "Age of Antiquity"
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posted 07-09-06 05:44 PM EDT (US)   


Inspired by these two threads:

What do you think about a Re-make of Age of Empires 2?

AOE4: AOE1 Remake Ideas

What I'd like to do is launch a GROUP PROJECT for anyone on the forums to join. This will be a complete overhaul and remake of the first Age of Empires. Not only a remake, but an overhaul. What does that mean? Well that means we will go deeper into historical gaming than any game Ensemble has yet produced. We will update AOE1 to modern standards of gameplay as well. Each civ will be unique and fresh and most of all historically accurate.

[JPEG, (162.69 KB)]
[JPEG, (334.64 KB)]


What each project member will do is choose 3 civs from the list below to design as he or she sees fit, within the guidelines of the game as I will set up. What you will do then is research each civ to the best of your abilities, fill out the form I provide here and post it in this thread. Be careful not to be too verbose in your design because the forum seems to not like large posts. When everything is done and all civs have been profiled, I will gather everything together and make a giant new thread releasing the game design to the world.

This thread will be for strictly signing up for civilizations to profile (and then posting your results) and for discussing gameplay mechanics of the game and civs. What we want to do is stick to history and stay away from mythology and religion, except when dealing with Temples and Healers/Priests.

I fully expect this to last months, but that's not important. What's important is we all have fun making this and learn more about game design, history, and how they both fit together!


-------------------------
Okay, first, the uber LIST OF CIVILIZATIONS! Choose three from below you'd like to profile (first come first serve). *Note, please choose Vanilla civs first, then move on to the expacks (don't everyone try to gang up on the Greeks and Romans):

Vanilla: "Age of Antiquity: Dawn of Civilization"
- Assyrians :: Mythos_Ruler
- Babylonians :: Empror
- Egyptians :: Cassador_Chris
- Etruscans :: Brocktree101
- Hebrews :: Yamato Take
- Hittites :: Empror
- Kushites (Nubians) :: Empror
- Minoans :: Mythos_Ruler
- Mycenaeans :: egel
- Phoenicians :: GatoFedorento
- Scythians :: Dieneces
- Sumerians :: GatoFedorento

Chocolate: Expack1 "Empires Ascendant"
- Carthaginians :: Yamato Take
- Gauls :: egel + Brocktree
- Hellenes (Greeks) :: Dieneces
- Iberians :: GatoFedorento
- Macedonians :: Mythos_Ruler
- Numidians :: Yamato Take
- Persians :: Mythos_Ruler
- Romans:: egel
- Samnites :: Mythos_Ruler
- Seleucids :: Hosko
- Syracusans :: Empror
- Thracians :: Dieneces


Rocky Road or Strawberry: Expack2 "Empires Besieged"
- Axumites (Ethiopians) :: skystrider
- Britons :: Egel and Brocktree101
- Byzantines (Eastern Romans) :: Empror
- Dacians :: Mythos_Ruler
- Germanians :: Brocktree101
- Han (Chinese) :: MudokonGod
- Huns :: GatoFedorento
- Indians :: Lord Iarune
- Palmyrans :: GatoFedorento
- Parthians :: Empror
- Sarmatians :: egel
- Yamato (Japanese) :: Yamato Take

-------------------------
Next, choose your Civ Bonuses. Bonuses are things like, "Archers +25% HPs" or "Farming 33% more profitable." Please, stick to realistic bonuses for your civs. Make them historically accurate, and again, bonus points to those who come up with original ethnic names for your bonuses.

Bonus 1 - Economic/Civic
Bonus 2 - Military
Bonus 3 - Any

--------------------------
After that, choose the units your civ will field in battle. The research part will be this: Choose units that your civ used in REAL HISTORY. For instance, the Babylonians did *not* use a Quinquireme. However, you can give them a "bireme" class ship for gameplay purposes. The fun part will be finding the NAMES OF EACH UNIT according to the civ you are profiling. For instance, a Greek Infantry Spearman is a Hoplite (hop*lee*tay). Bonus points to those profilers who can give each unit a unique ethnic (non-anglosized) name.

Out of the 33 unit types listed here, I'd recommend your civs have no more than 30 and no less than 20:

Villager Citizen/Peasant (jack of all trades, builder and gatherer)
Villager Slave (a quick gatherer, does not build)
Villager Colonist (a quick builder, does not gather)
Villager Merchant (land trader)

Infantry Militia (every civ; very first military unit; starts as clubman in Stone Age)
Infantry Spearman
Infantry Swordsman
Ranged Slinger (very first ranged unit; starts in Tool Age)
Ranged Skirmisher
Ranged Bowman
Cavalry Scout (very first cavalry unit; can hunt; starts in Tool Age)
Cavalry Spearman
Cavalry Swordsman
Cavalry Skirmisher
Cavalry Archer

Healer Priest
Spy/Assassin/Diplomatic Unit

Siege Stone Thrower
Siege Bolt Thrower
Siege Tower
Siege Ram

Ship Fishing
Ship Trading
Ship Light -> Ship Medium
Ship Siege(rare "super" ship)

Unique Civilian Unit
Unique Military Unit 1
Unique Military Unit 2

Hero 1 (every civ has at least one hero)
Hero 2
Hero 3
Hero 4 (few civs have 4th hero)

*Note: Chariots and Elephants are usually reserved as Unique Units.
*Note: Make Unique Units truly UNIQUE, SPECIAL, and ELITE. For instance, a Hoplite isn't unique (he's just a spearman), but a SPARTIATE is an ELITE form of hoplite that would work well as a UU.

--------------------------
Next, profile the buildings for your civ. The fun part will be, again, to find out ethnic-specific names for each one. Also fun will be to come up with truly special Unique Buildings (listed at the end):

Town Center (upgradeable with different features, like in Battle for Middle Earth II)
Government Building (researches unique techs and "uber" post-Imperial techs, plus trains Unique civilian unit)
Market
House
Temple
Storehouse (gather wood, stone, and gold)
Mining Camp (generates gold like AOE3's Plantation)
Granary (gather food)
Farmland
Livestock Pen (like AOE3)
Outpost Tower
Palisade Wall
Palisade Gate
Stone Wall
Stone Wall Tower
Stone Wall Gate
Emissary (build at Mercenary camps to train mercenaries)
Smith (armory technologies)
Barracks (infantry)
Archery Range (ranged)
Stable (cavalry)
Siege Workshop (siege)
Naval Yard (ships)
Citadel (fort - build limit: 1)
Academy (trains Unique military units)

Wonder (give it a name and a unique bonus)

Unique Building Economic/Civic
Unique Building Military
Unique Building 3 (only a few civs have 3rd Unique Building)

------------------------
Lastly, choose the Unique Techs for your civ. You get one Unique Tech for each Unique Unit or Unique Building in your civ's profile. For instance, if you have 2 Unique Units and 1 Unique Building, then you get 3 Unique Techs.

Unique Tech 1
Unique Tech 2
...
Unique Tech 6 (Max number, based on max number of UUs and UBs)

-------------------

Don't worry about getting the "format" right. You don't have to do things IN THAT order. You can also easily copy/paste the lists provided above and work from there.


Alright, the floor is now open. Once someone completes his/her 3 civs, that person may then choose 3 more to complete! We have 30+ civs, so lets get going!

[This message has been edited by Mythos_Ruler (edited 08-02-2007 @ 06:37 PM).]

Replies:
posted 09-19-06 01:39 AM EDT (US)     251 / 929  
@ Brocktree101's Etruscans civ:

Don't really like your choices of heroes. I think using Roman mythological heroes is a no-no. I suggest a little more research (maybe even if you think about it the next time you're at the library), but if you cant find any more suitable heroes, then I suppose you can use those.

The Etruscans had a great navy, but the true source of their economy was their fruitful harvest and abundant mineral wealth. I'd emphasize those aspects of their economy.

Socially, the Etruscans were deeply religious and devoted utterly to ritual. They felt the divine in every act of nature and man. Priests were trained in the art of devination and were consulted by the masses for almost every decision.

Although preoccupied by the divine, they were also very lively people, holding festivals and parties, all the while elevating nearly equal rights for women (strongly criticized by the Greeks). Horse racing, boxing matches, and wrestling mjatches were common. They loved music - doing almost everything to its accompaniment - fighting, hunting, cooking, even beating their slaves.

They were a feudal and clannic society, where family was everything. They banded together in city-states, not unlike Greece of an earlier age. They were bound together with common language and religious belief, but were severely protective of their clan and its heritage.

Great people, the Etruscans. The Romans would adopt many of their customs and social order.

http://www.mysteriousetruscans.com/
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Etruscan_civilization

[This message has been edited by Mythos_Ruler (edited 09-19-2006 @ 01:44 AM).]

posted 09-19-06 03:06 AM EDT (US)     252 / 929  
Here are the Thracians, a work in progress.

Thracians

Bonus 1 - Tribal Relations: Town Centres are half price, build 50% faster, can be built in any age, and have –50% hit points.
Bonus 2 – Sons of Ares: Ranged units, including cavalry, have +. 30% hack armour.
Bonus 3 – Militia units, Shamans and Dentu Buris are free, but cost +1 population.

Villager Citizen/Peasant - Dweller
Villager Merchant - Emporos

Infantry Militia – Clubman > Skarsas Clubman > Skaplis
Infantry Spearman – Tarubur > Bessi Tarubur
Infantry Swordsman – Skalmebur > Bithyni Skalmebur > Rhomphaia

Ranged Slinger – Thermbur
Ranged Skirmisher – Peltast > Edoni Peltast > Agrianes Peltast

Cavalry Scout - Mezena
Cavalry Spearman – Alonhan Mezena
Cavalry Skirmisher - Skalme Mezena > Agathyrsi Mezena
Cavalry Archer - Getai Mezena > Scythian Romfeabur

Healer Priest – Drunken Shaman
Spy/Assassin/Diplomatic Unit – Dentu Buris

Siege Ram – Barge Kriari

Ship Fishing – Thracian Sailor
Ship Trading – Phrygian Merchant
Ship Light – Trireme

Unique Military Unit 1 – Dioi Makhaira: Fast moving swordsman. Has a big sweep attack with his blade.
Unique Military Unit 2 – Highlander: Combined Peltast and Rhomphaia warrior. Excellent against infantry.

Hero 1: Cotys – Cavalry hero. Can train Greek hoplitai.
Hero 2: Teres – Highlander hero. Throws several javelins for a special attack.

Bonuses:
- Cheap, but strong army
- Good hit and run capabilities with ranged units
- Fast heroes and unique units
- Town centers are cheap and easy to build

Weaknesses:
- Poor siege
- Weak navy
- Only two villager and hero varieties

Any ideas for a wonder?


"You cannot discover an inhabited land. Otherwise I could cross the Atlantic and 'discover' England."
- Dekhatkadons, Onondaga Iroquois chief.

[This message has been edited by Dieneces (edited 09-19-2006 @ 03:19 AM).]

posted 09-19-06 03:40 AM EDT (US)     253 / 929  
Hi guys. I've almost ironed out all of my problems and I hope to be more active once more. It'll be a few more days though.

However, Brocktree, if you don't mind, could we swop Britons and Gauls?

1: You suggested the split to Gauls.
2: You appeared to want Gauls.
3: I think this is really great since I've been having trouble getting all varieties of Celts in, and I know more about the Britons than I do about the Gauls.
4: I don't mean to be selfish but my current design is more easily geared towards Britons rather than Gauls.

Please, pretty please could we swop?

P.S, Who gets Brennos/Brennus(sp? - seen both ways)? The Gauls I presume?

THRACIANS NICE!!!
Anyway, +30% hack armour to ranged units!!! Ouch dude, thats gonna hurt, lol. Keep it mate!


Ceres 629's strategy guides

Vive la mort, vive la guerre, vive le sacre mercenaire.

0 A.D

[This message has been edited by egel (edited 09-19-2006 @ 03:44 AM).]

posted 09-19-06 07:07 AM EDT (US)     254 / 929  
Well, I started the Britons already and I really like them. Ill tell ye what though. We'll split em. I do Gauls and Britons. You do Gauls and Britons. In the end, we join em and get two awesome civs. eh.

Go tell the Spartans, stranger passing by, that loyal to them, here we lie

Heed to Sparta, that on this hill, we lie loyal to them still

Go tell to Sparta, what you have read, that loyal to them, we lie now dead...

posted 09-19-06 08:58 AM EDT (US)     255 / 929  
Well, what about Iberians then? I didn't quite undertand what was decided.

Long live early music.
posted 09-19-06 10:24 AM EDT (US)     256 / 929  
QUICK! Next one who says they want Iberians gets them!

BTW - I am going to be gone for a few days.

BTW2 - No one has commented on my Assyrians.

posted 09-19-06 10:26 AM EDT (US)     257 / 929  
I'll take the Iberians! :P

No need to comments, your work is flawless by default :P

EDIT:
I can take Palmyrians too, if you'd like.


Long live early music.

[This message has been edited by GatoFedorento (edited 09-19-2006 @ 10:29 AM).]

posted 09-19-06 01:45 PM EDT (US)     258 / 929  
Done.

Iberians should have some cool bonuses and units. Palmyrans will be Roman-like with an eastern flair!

posted 09-19-06 03:06 PM EDT (US)     259 / 929  
I'll try to do my best.

A little off-subject, but not off-topic, so I'd like to post this here: What do you think of the greek temple I've made?

I know it is not a masterpiece, on the contrary... It doesn't have much detail... And it is historically inaccurate in some aspects... But it is one of the first 3D models I've built.


Long live early music.
posted 09-19-06 03:25 PM EDT (US)     260 / 929  
No one seems to want the Sarmatians. Bummer. Maybe you should put the Norse or Vandals or Goths in it's stead. Oh and egel, what do you say to my proposition? And Mythos, the Assyrians are verrrry good. Keep up the good work.

Go tell the Spartans, stranger passing by, that loyal to them, here we lie

Heed to Sparta, that on this hill, we lie loyal to them still

Go tell to Sparta, what you have read, that loyal to them, we lie now dead...

[This message has been edited by Brocktree101 (edited 09-19-2006 @ 03:28 PM).]

posted 09-19-06 04:16 PM EDT (US)     261 / 929  
GatoFedorento, that's a pretty good Greek temple. I think the biggest error you have is the 9 (!) columns along the front. An odd number of columns would never have been used along the front. Just take one out and re-space the remaining 8 and you have a better looking temple. In a Doric style temple the columns would not have a round (or any shape) base like that. It all looks pretty sweet though. (y)
posted 09-19-06 04:24 PM EDT (US)     262 / 929  
Mythos man, when are you putting this all together. And what happens then. Do we design the units, buildings and such or what?

Go tell the Spartans, stranger passing by, that loyal to them, here we lie

Heed to Sparta, that on this hill, we lie loyal to them still

Go tell to Sparta, what you have read, that loyal to them, we lie now dead...

posted 09-19-06 04:25 PM EDT (US)     263 / 929  
I tried to make Jonic style columns, but that was just too hard... :\ Anyway, thank you for your positive comments ... I'll try to correct the mistakes.

Long live early music.

[This message has been edited by GatoFedorento (edited 09-19-2006 @ 04:28 PM).]

posted 09-19-06 04:30 PM EDT (US)     264 / 929  
What do you plan to do for the Iberians? And mythos, are you answering me?

Go tell the Spartans, stranger passing by, that loyal to them, here we lie

Heed to Sparta, that on this hill, we lie loyal to them still

Go tell to Sparta, what you have read, that loyal to them, we lie now dead...

posted 09-19-06 06:24 PM EDT (US)     265 / 929  
GatoFedorento - After you perfect that Greek temple, you should try the Roman Pantheon:

http://www.wildfiregames.com/0ad/album_page.php?pic_id=6257

For your Greek temple you should try putting flutes in the columns. Also, Doric columns start to taper slightly (!) about halfway up.



I think the hardest part to model will be the pediment and frieze with all the little greek characters/statues.

Last, but not least, the Greek Doric Order had a ratio of width to height. I think they used the "Golden rectangle" for proportions. Its an aesthetic that is uniquely Greek. You can see this proportion in the next image:

Hope all this helps. It's all very cool stuff. Oh hey, almost forgot, many (most?) Doric temples have three large steps.

Brocktree101 - Pay attention, man. GatoFedorento has Iberians now.

[This message has been edited by Mythos_Ruler (edited 09-19-2006 @ 06:32 PM).]

posted 09-19-06 06:27 PM EDT (US)     266 / 929  
"Grins" Hey mythos. Mythos man, when are you putting this all together. And what happens then. Do we design the units, buildings and such or what?

Go tell the Spartans, stranger passing by, that loyal to them, here we lie

Heed to Sparta, that on this hill, we lie loyal to them still

Go tell to Sparta, what you have read, that loyal to them, we lie now dead...

posted 09-19-06 06:52 PM EDT (US)     267 / 929  
Looks like you had more luck on the Assyrians than I did Mythos.

Cosmopolitan? Check.
posted 09-19-06 07:29 PM EDT (US)     268 / 929  
Sounds like a deal, Brocktree. I think we can both live with it. It'll need some serious co-operation tough. Do you have an MSN name/email address/google chat I can contact you on? MSN me at nova_invictius(at)hotmail(dot)com...

Mythos, when we're done, I'll consider Samaritans, OK?

Ceres 629's strategy guides

Vive la mort, vive la guerre, vive le sacre mercenaire.

0 A.D

[This message has been edited by egel (edited 11-23-2011 @ 03:05 AM).]

posted 09-19-06 07:37 PM EDT (US)     269 / 929  

Quote:

"Grins" Hey mythos. Mythos man, when are you putting this all together. And what happens then. Do we design the units, buildings and such or what?

This has been said, Age of Antiquity is not a mod.


Cosmopolitan? Check.
posted 09-19-06 07:52 PM EDT (US)     270 / 929  

Quote:

Mythos man, when are you putting this all together. And what happens then. Do we design the units, buildings and such or what?

Once all the civs are complete I'll work to add their features to a massive spreadsheet. This part will take me a long time, as I'll also have to reconcile a bunch of things between civs. Plus, the input to a spreadsheet will just be plain time consuming, but worth it when its done.

In the meantime we can work on gameplay features and balancing civs. I think what I'll do is post up a civ in a "finalized" format I come up with, and then everyong can critique each civ. I'll make balance and feature changes to the civs we critique as we come to a concensus (some things I'll just have to make a call on myself if we dont have a concensus, I'm sure you all can understand).

We can also come up with a list of maps and mercenaries and which maps which mercs appear on. That'll be dandy. After we do that, I can add that information to our game's spreadsheet as well. (y) But lets do one thing at a time.

1.) Finish the 1st draft if each civ profile. Soon I'll go through the thread and flag each civ in the original post that has been completed.

2.) Critique and Final draft each civ profile. A lot of earlier civs (like from pages 1-6 in this thread) will need some updating with features comparable to our later designed civs.

3.) Game Features. Decide what kind of features we want in the game.

4.) Map List and Mercenary List. Maps can be either designed by type or location. We'll decide that when the time comes. The Mercenary list will consist of minor tribes and civ units that can be purchased by other Player civs. Should be fun.

5.) Finalize our Game. Hopefully by this time I'll have had time to input all the data we've come up with into one file. We can then decide what we want to do with our game design. Make some kind of proposal to ES? Make a mod of AOE3, AOM, or 0 A.D.? Try to make our own game? Just release the final game design to the community for their enjoyment?

6.) Depends on #5.

posted 09-19-06 08:30 PM EDT (US)     271 / 929  
Sweet. Oh, and egel, check my status for my email.

Go tell the Spartans, stranger passing by, that loyal to them, here we lie

Heed to Sparta, that on this hill, we lie loyal to them still

Go tell to Sparta, what you have read, that loyal to them, we lie now dead...

posted 09-19-06 08:57 PM EDT (US)     272 / 929  
Your Assyrians are awesome, Mythos. I thought nothing needed to be said, they're close to perfect. Love their heroes, too.

Do you like my Thracians? Any idea for a unique building or wonder?


"You cannot discover an inhabited land. Otherwise I could cross the Atlantic and 'discover' England."
- Dekhatkadons, Onondaga Iroquois chief.
posted 09-19-06 09:02 PM EDT (US)     273 / 929  
Dude, your Thracians are sweet. But try not to mix up Highlanders with the real Highlanders (Scots). Other than that superb. And how's Greece comin' along?

Go tell the Spartans, stranger passing by, that loyal to them, here we lie

Heed to Sparta, that on this hill, we lie loyal to them still

Go tell to Sparta, what you have read, that loyal to them, we lie now dead...

posted 09-19-06 10:22 PM EDT (US)     274 / 929  
Dieneces, you'll need some Unique Techs for your Thracians. I'd suggest some techs that bonus their Ranged-Skirmishers, as the Thracians are chiefly known for their Peltastai.

EDIT: New Logo

[This message has been edited by Mythos_Ruler (edited 09-19-2006 @ 10:24 PM).]

posted 09-20-06 01:40 AM EDT (US)     275 / 929  
I like the logo, Mythos. Gotcha, Brocktree. Mythos, is "Sarmatians" an error, or am I missing something?

Ceres 629's strategy guides

Vive la mort, vive la guerre, vive le sacre mercenaire.

0 A.D
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