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Topic Subject: [Group Project] "Age of Antiquity"
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posted 07-09-06 05:44 PM EDT (US)   


Inspired by these two threads:

What do you think about a Re-make of Age of Empires 2?

AOE4: AOE1 Remake Ideas

What I'd like to do is launch a GROUP PROJECT for anyone on the forums to join. This will be a complete overhaul and remake of the first Age of Empires. Not only a remake, but an overhaul. What does that mean? Well that means we will go deeper into historical gaming than any game Ensemble has yet produced. We will update AOE1 to modern standards of gameplay as well. Each civ will be unique and fresh and most of all historically accurate.

[JPEG, (162.69 KB)]
[JPEG, (334.64 KB)]


What each project member will do is choose 3 civs from the list below to design as he or she sees fit, within the guidelines of the game as I will set up. What you will do then is research each civ to the best of your abilities, fill out the form I provide here and post it in this thread. Be careful not to be too verbose in your design because the forum seems to not like large posts. When everything is done and all civs have been profiled, I will gather everything together and make a giant new thread releasing the game design to the world.

This thread will be for strictly signing up for civilizations to profile (and then posting your results) and for discussing gameplay mechanics of the game and civs. What we want to do is stick to history and stay away from mythology and religion, except when dealing with Temples and Healers/Priests.

I fully expect this to last months, but that's not important. What's important is we all have fun making this and learn more about game design, history, and how they both fit together!


-------------------------
Okay, first, the uber LIST OF CIVILIZATIONS! Choose three from below you'd like to profile (first come first serve). *Note, please choose Vanilla civs first, then move on to the expacks (don't everyone try to gang up on the Greeks and Romans):

Vanilla: "Age of Antiquity: Dawn of Civilization"
- Assyrians :: Mythos_Ruler
- Babylonians :: Empror
- Egyptians :: Cassador_Chris
- Etruscans :: Brocktree101
- Hebrews :: Yamato Take
- Hittites :: Empror
- Kushites (Nubians) :: Empror
- Minoans :: Mythos_Ruler
- Mycenaeans :: egel
- Phoenicians :: GatoFedorento
- Scythians :: Dieneces
- Sumerians :: GatoFedorento

Chocolate: Expack1 "Empires Ascendant"
- Carthaginians :: Yamato Take
- Gauls :: egel + Brocktree
- Hellenes (Greeks) :: Dieneces
- Iberians :: GatoFedorento
- Macedonians :: Mythos_Ruler
- Numidians :: Yamato Take
- Persians :: Mythos_Ruler
- Romans:: egel
- Samnites :: Mythos_Ruler
- Seleucids :: Hosko
- Syracusans :: Empror
- Thracians :: Dieneces


Rocky Road or Strawberry: Expack2 "Empires Besieged"
- Axumites (Ethiopians) :: skystrider
- Britons :: Egel and Brocktree101
- Byzantines (Eastern Romans) :: Empror
- Dacians :: Mythos_Ruler
- Germanians :: Brocktree101
- Han (Chinese) :: MudokonGod
- Huns :: GatoFedorento
- Indians :: Lord Iarune
- Palmyrans :: GatoFedorento
- Parthians :: Empror
- Sarmatians :: egel
- Yamato (Japanese) :: Yamato Take

-------------------------
Next, choose your Civ Bonuses. Bonuses are things like, "Archers +25% HPs" or "Farming 33% more profitable." Please, stick to realistic bonuses for your civs. Make them historically accurate, and again, bonus points to those who come up with original ethnic names for your bonuses.

Bonus 1 - Economic/Civic
Bonus 2 - Military
Bonus 3 - Any

--------------------------
After that, choose the units your civ will field in battle. The research part will be this: Choose units that your civ used in REAL HISTORY. For instance, the Babylonians did *not* use a Quinquireme. However, you can give them a "bireme" class ship for gameplay purposes. The fun part will be finding the NAMES OF EACH UNIT according to the civ you are profiling. For instance, a Greek Infantry Spearman is a Hoplite (hop*lee*tay). Bonus points to those profilers who can give each unit a unique ethnic (non-anglosized) name.

Out of the 33 unit types listed here, I'd recommend your civs have no more than 30 and no less than 20:

Villager Citizen/Peasant (jack of all trades, builder and gatherer)
Villager Slave (a quick gatherer, does not build)
Villager Colonist (a quick builder, does not gather)
Villager Merchant (land trader)

Infantry Militia (every civ; very first military unit; starts as clubman in Stone Age)
Infantry Spearman
Infantry Swordsman
Ranged Slinger (very first ranged unit; starts in Tool Age)
Ranged Skirmisher
Ranged Bowman
Cavalry Scout (very first cavalry unit; can hunt; starts in Tool Age)
Cavalry Spearman
Cavalry Swordsman
Cavalry Skirmisher
Cavalry Archer

Healer Priest
Spy/Assassin/Diplomatic Unit

Siege Stone Thrower
Siege Bolt Thrower
Siege Tower
Siege Ram

Ship Fishing
Ship Trading
Ship Light -> Ship Medium
Ship Siege(rare "super" ship)

Unique Civilian Unit
Unique Military Unit 1
Unique Military Unit 2

Hero 1 (every civ has at least one hero)
Hero 2
Hero 3
Hero 4 (few civs have 4th hero)

*Note: Chariots and Elephants are usually reserved as Unique Units.
*Note: Make Unique Units truly UNIQUE, SPECIAL, and ELITE. For instance, a Hoplite isn't unique (he's just a spearman), but a SPARTIATE is an ELITE form of hoplite that would work well as a UU.

--------------------------
Next, profile the buildings for your civ. The fun part will be, again, to find out ethnic-specific names for each one. Also fun will be to come up with truly special Unique Buildings (listed at the end):

Town Center (upgradeable with different features, like in Battle for Middle Earth II)
Government Building (researches unique techs and "uber" post-Imperial techs, plus trains Unique civilian unit)
Market
House
Temple
Storehouse (gather wood, stone, and gold)
Mining Camp (generates gold like AOE3's Plantation)
Granary (gather food)
Farmland
Livestock Pen (like AOE3)
Outpost Tower
Palisade Wall
Palisade Gate
Stone Wall
Stone Wall Tower
Stone Wall Gate
Emissary (build at Mercenary camps to train mercenaries)
Smith (armory technologies)
Barracks (infantry)
Archery Range (ranged)
Stable (cavalry)
Siege Workshop (siege)
Naval Yard (ships)
Citadel (fort - build limit: 1)
Academy (trains Unique military units)

Wonder (give it a name and a unique bonus)

Unique Building Economic/Civic
Unique Building Military
Unique Building 3 (only a few civs have 3rd Unique Building)

------------------------
Lastly, choose the Unique Techs for your civ. You get one Unique Tech for each Unique Unit or Unique Building in your civ's profile. For instance, if you have 2 Unique Units and 1 Unique Building, then you get 3 Unique Techs.

Unique Tech 1
Unique Tech 2
...
Unique Tech 6 (Max number, based on max number of UUs and UBs)

-------------------

Don't worry about getting the "format" right. You don't have to do things IN THAT order. You can also easily copy/paste the lists provided above and work from there.


Alright, the floor is now open. Once someone completes his/her 3 civs, that person may then choose 3 more to complete! We have 30+ civs, so lets get going!

[This message has been edited by Mythos_Ruler (edited 08-02-2007 @ 06:37 PM).]

Replies:
posted 10-15-06 04:22 PM EDT (US)     526 / 929  
Very nice Numidians. My new Indians have quite the bit of unit changes. They are also very gold-centered.

׺°˜`°º×ALL HAIL THE UNCLELAND!׺°˜`°º×[/ind]\

[ind]Help to reveal the Dumbo Conspiracy to the World!

posted 10-15-06 04:23 PM EDT (US)     527 / 929  
That's pretty good. I like how you added Jugurtha.

Go tell the Spartans, stranger passing by, that loyal to them, here we lie

Heed to Sparta, that on this hill, we lie loyal to them still

Go tell to Sparta, what you have read, that loyal to them, we lie now dead...

posted 10-15-06 04:31 PM EDT (US)     528 / 929  
posted 10-15-06 04:44 PM EDT (US)     529 / 929  
Yeah, that's pretty odd... I recall Numidians as being a trading civilization

Long live early music.
posted 10-15-06 08:38 PM EDT (US)     530 / 929  
Oops. Must have deleted that.

Cosmopolitan? Check.
posted 10-17-06 01:07 AM EDT (US)     531 / 929  
posted 10-17-06 04:33 AM EDT (US)     532 / 929  
PERSIANS

Bonuses:
Bonus 1 :: "Achamaenid Architecture" - All structures +20% HPs over other xpack civs.
Bonus 2 :: "Satrap Levy" - All military units train 15% faster.
Bonus 3 :: "Peace in the Middle East" - 3 free Merchants granted for each Market built.


Units:
Villager Citizen :: Commoner
Villager Slave :: Guest
- The Persians would enslave conquered peoples by resettling them within their empire, with propaganda that these were "guests" of the King.
Villager Merchant :: Aramaic Caravan
- "Aramaic" became the lingua franca of the Middle East because of the merchant ways of the Aramaean tribes straddling the crossroads of the Fertile Crescent. Jesus Christ himself might have spoken this Aramaic.

Infantry Militia :: Clubman -> Axeman -> Takabara
Infantry Spearman :: Median Levy -> Median Sparabara
- The Medes were "counsins" of the Persians and held a strong position within the empire's governmental and military hierarchy.

Ranged Slinger :: Babylonian Slinger
Ranged Skirmisher :: Syrian Light Skirmisher -> Phrygian Heavy Skirmisher
Ranged Bowman :: Egyptian Light Bowman -> Median Thanvbara

Cavalry Scout :: Nomad Scout -> Persian Messenger
Cavalry Spearman :: Dromedary Camel -> Bactrian Camel
- Camels were used in the middle east as far back as 2500 B.C.
Cavalry Swordsman :: Lydian Medium Cavalry -> Median Heavy Cavalry
Cavalry Skirmisher :: Bactrian Raider -> Bactrian Ranger
- The Bactrians were superlative horsemen, and furnished the empire with thousands of heavily armed cavalrymen.
Cavalry Archer :: Chariot Archer -> Scythed Chariot Archer

Healer Priest :: Magus
- Powerful class of Median religious bureaucrats.
Spy/Assassin/Diplomatic Unit :: Satrap

Siege Bolt Thrower :: Yunani Oxybeles
- Means "Greek Catapult." The Persians weren't great siegers, but adopted techniques and equipment that proved useful.
Siege Ram :: Syrian Ram

Ship Fishing :: Euphrates Fisher
Ship Trading :: Tyrian Merchant Sloop
- Tyre was a Phoenician island city, famous for its fleets of trade ships.
Ship Light -> Medium -> Heavy :: Ionian Pentakonter (Light) -> Egyptian Biremis (Medium) -> Phoenician Triremis (Heavy)

Unique Units:
Unique Military Unit 1 :: Anusiya (Age 3)
- The famed "Immortals" of the Achamaenid Empire. Noble-born Persians who fight for the king. Fights with bow and spear. Only trained from HEROES (train limit: 20).
Unique Military Unit 2 :: Indian War Elephant (Age 4)
- Strong War elephant with massive Crush attack and Trample damage. Will "run amok" if damaged -75%. Stops running amok when healed by a priest. May also be trained from the Stable (in addition to the Academy). Train limit: 10.

Heroes:
Note: The player is allowed only one Hero at a time.

Hero 1 :: Cyrus the Great
- The first great Persian conqueror. Rides a horse. All cavalry within his LOS +20% speed and attack.
Hero 2 :: Darius I
- Masterful Administrator of the Empire. All structures build 20% faster. All technologies research 20% faster.
Hero 3 :: Xerxes I
- Attempted twice to invade Greece. All units -15% cost when structure within his LOS.
Hero 4 :: Darius III
- Last "Great King" of the Empire. War Elephants within his LOS +20% hack attack.

Structures
Government Building (researches unique techs and "uber" post-Imperial techs, plus trains Unique civilian unit)
Market
House
Temple
Storehouse (gather wood, stone, and gold)
Mining Camp (generates gold like AOE3's Plantation)
Granary (gather food)
Farmland
Livestock Pen (like AOE3)
Outpost Tower
Palisade Wall
Palisade Gate
Stone Wall
Stone Wall Tower
Stone Wall Gate
Emissary (build at Mercenary camps to train mercenaries)
Smith (armory technologies)
Barracks (infantry)
Archery Range (ranged)
Stable (cavalry)
Siege Workshop (siege)
Naval Yard (ships)
Citadel (fort - build limit: 1)
Academy (trains Unique military units)

Wonder :: "Persepolis"
- A wonderful palace complex. During Death Match games acts like a profitable plenty vault. Also increases hero HPs +20%.

Unique Building Economic/Civic :: Treasury Stores
- Construct one of these and all tribute given to the player is bonused 100%. Great for a team game.
Unique Building Military :: Kahk
- Palace of a Satrap. Heroes and UUs +15% attack within LOS of this building.

Unique Technoplogies
Unique Tech 1 :: "Royal Road"
- The Great Kings built and expanded roads throughout their conquered lands. Land Merchants +20% speed.
Unique Tech 2 :: "Enlightened Rule"
- The Persians allowed local forms of government, tolerated religion, and allowed the Jews to return to Israel. All units +40% resistant to conversion (loyalty).
Unique Tech 3 :: "Royal Sceptor"
- Fairly expensive tech. Train limit for Anusiya increased to 30. Anysiyas will auto-train at the player's starting Town Center for as long as the train limit has not been reached. This auto-training stops when the train limit has been reached.
Unique Tech 4:: "Zoroastrian Riddles"
- The Persians were tolerant of other religions, but practiced the Monotheistic Zoroastrianism. Temples heal all idle nearby units nearly instantaneously. This ability must be recharged after each use.

Advantages
- Good archers.
- Powerful cavalry selection.
- Very strong buildings.
- Good selection of heroes.
- Powerful UUs.
- Good late game economy.

Disadvantages
- Standard unit lines -15% HPs
- UUs have low train limits.
- Weak siege capability, except with massed War Elephants.
- Slow to start. May be rushed.
- Only one hero may be alive at one time (the King allows no usurpers).

[This message has been edited by Mythos_Ruler (edited 10-17-2006 @ 10:27 PM).]

posted 10-17-06 08:16 PM EDT (US)     533 / 929  
I finally finished my Indians. They have been changed ALOT.

Indians

Bonus 1 - "Royal Lineage": Gold slowly generates from Town Centers.
Bonus 2 - "Goldcapped Ivory": Samnahya +25% siege, have slight bonus against infantry.
Bonus 3 - "Caste System": For every two villager units trained, one free military unit is trained at a Town Center.


Villager Citizen/Peasant and Slave: Sudra
Villager Merchant and Colonist: Vaisya

Infantry Militia: Clubman --> Axeman --> Longswordsman
Infantry Spearman: Dirghyudha --> Marajha Guard
Infantry Swordsman: Katar --> Nepalese Kukri
Ranged Slinger: Mountain Slinger
Ranged Skirmisher: Chakram --> Elite Chakram --> Vishnu Chakram
Ranged Bowman: Maiden Archer
Cavalry Scout: Harappan Scout --> Kosala Scout --> Maurya Scout
Cavalry Spearman: Mounted Trishula --> Elite Trishula --> Shiva Trishula
Cavalry Swordsman: Azvanika
Cavalry Skirmisher: Mounted Javelineer
Cavalry Archer: Bactrian Horse Archers

Healer Priest: Brahmin
Spy/Assassin/Diplomatic Unit: Pandya Sharpshooter

Siege Stone Thrower: Fustbalus
Siege Bolt Thrower:
Siege Ram: Ram

Ship Fishing: ?
Ship Trading: ?
Ship Light: ?
Ship Siege: ?

Unique Military Unit 1: Four-horse Chariot (Heavy chariot)
Unique Military Unit 2: Samnahya (Elite War Elephant, strongest elephant unit in the game)
Unique Civilian Unit: Engineer- The Engineer is trained at the Siege Workshop. Can repair buildings faster than normal civilian units, can build bridges across waterways (one section at a time), and can build siege units on the field. (Build limit 7)

Hero 1 Porus: Samnahya within LOS gain LOS bonus, Pandya Sharpshooters have stealth ability while he is alive
Hero 2 Siddartha Gautama: Every 5th unit converted by this hero gains the convert ability
Hero 3 Ashoka: Melee infantry +25% speed, can train Dirghyudha/Marajha Guard in blocks of 5 (Slow recharge time)

Town Center
Government Building
Market
House
Temple
Storehouse
Mining Camp
Granary
Farmland
Livestock Pen
Outpost Tower
Palisade Wall
Palisade Gate
Stone Wall
Stone Wall Tower
Stone Wall Gate
Emissary
Smith
Barracks
Archery Range
Stable: Azvakuti
Siege Workshop
Naval Yard
Citadel
Academy

Wonder:

Unique Building Economic: Treasury- Any resource can be dropped off here, and it will be converted to gold.

Unique Tech 1: "Indus Architecture"- Buildings 35% stronger, Citadel garrison doubled
Unique Tech 2: "Ahinsa"- Hostile wildlife does not attack you
Unique Tech 3: "Vedic Script"- Religious techs worship 50% faster, Brahmin conversion rate doubled
Unique Tech 4: "Kshatriya"- Infantry attack +30%, bonus gained against cavalry and siege
Unique Tech 5: "Payed in Blood"- Nepalese Kukri +19% attack against heroes and infantry, HP of surrounding units gains when Nepalese Kukri kills an enemy


׺°˜`°º×ALL HAIL THE UNCLELAND!׺°˜`°º×[/ind]\

[ind]Help to reveal the Dumbo Conspiracy to the World!

posted 10-17-06 08:34 PM EDT (US)     534 / 929  
Pretty good.

Go tell the Spartans, stranger passing by, that loyal to them, here we lie

Heed to Sparta, that on this hill, we lie loyal to them still

Go tell to Sparta, what you have read, that loyal to them, we lie now dead...

posted 10-17-06 09:02 PM EDT (US)     535 / 929  
Impressive civs - great amount of research Iarune.

Mythos, the unit list is nice but there seems to be a lack of Persian names.

I would suggest "Takabara" in the Militia section, and Medien Sparabara over just 'Spearman'.

Also, try 'thanvbara' as the name of the archers. Just suggestions.


"You cannot discover an inhabited land. Otherwise I could cross the Atlantic and 'discover' England."
- Dekhatkadons, Onondaga Iroquois chief.

[This message has been edited by Dieneces (edited 10-17-2006 @ 09:03 PM).]

posted 10-17-06 10:29 PM EDT (US)     536 / 929  
Dieneces - Added your suggestions.

Lord Iarune - I'm kind of leary of the Indians having every single unit type. I'd drop 1 or 2 (maybe Cavalry Archer and something else?). The Indians definately need some kind of ships though. I like the heroes. Also, looks like you have 1 too many Unique Techs, which is doubly bad since the Indians already have every single unit available to them.

[This message has been edited by Mythos_Ruler (edited 10-17-2006 @ 10:31 PM).]

posted 10-17-06 10:33 PM EDT (US)     537 / 929  
Yea, Cavalry Archer should go for the Indians. But what else? I'm thinking another cavalry unit, as they don't have much need for cavalry or bonuses for them. Their only good cavalry unit is really the Mounted Trishula, a cavalry unit wielding a type of trishula, Sanskrit for trident.

EDIT: I'm keeping my techs, because I think they are all good for the Indians, but getting rid of cavalry archer and another unit. Don't know what though. Suggestions?


׺°˜`°º×ALL HAIL THE UNCLELAND!׺°˜`°º×[/ind]\

[ind]Help to reveal the Dumbo Conspiracy to the World!

[This message has been edited by Lord Iarune (edited 10-17-2006 @ 10:34 PM).]

posted 10-17-06 10:55 PM EDT (US)     538 / 929  
I think UT2 is kind of dubious - almost mythological. As far as what other unit to drop - what about the cavalry skirmisher since you dont have a good name for it? Just a suggestion.

Quote:

Lastly, choose the Unique Techs for your civ. You get one Unique Tech for each Unique Unit or Unique Building in your civ's profile. For instance, if you have 2 Unique Units and 1 Unique Building, then you get 3 Unique Techs.

Unique Tech 1
Unique Tech 2
...
Unique Tech 6 (Max number, based on max number of UUs and UBs)

[This message has been edited by Mythos_Ruler (edited 10-17-2006 @ 11:07 PM).]

posted 10-18-06 05:09 AM EDT (US)     539 / 929  
Hmm... No wonder?

And what about specific names for buildings? Are we neglecting those?


Long live early music.

[This message has been edited by GatoFedorento (edited 10-18-2006 @ 05:29 AM).]

posted 10-18-06 06:55 AM EDT (US)     540 / 929  
I didn't neglect them, but it's pretty hard to do ancient and classical language change. As of the middle Ages, people started using their present day languages so we can't have gauls in french or whatnot.

Go tell the Spartans, stranger passing by, that loyal to them, here we lie

Heed to Sparta, that on this hill, we lie loyal to them still

Go tell to Sparta, what you have read, that loyal to them, we lie now dead...

posted 10-18-06 07:09 AM EDT (US)     541 / 929  
Structure names seem awfully hard to come by, actually. Don't know why - probably the transaltions from English -> Ancient language don't align properly.
posted 10-18-06 08:01 AM EDT (US)     542 / 929  
Couldn't you use modern persian, for example?

Long live early music.
posted 10-18-06 04:01 PM EDT (US)     543 / 929  
Here they are, but I must warn you I'm a bit "down"... So this one may not be so good:

THE PHOENICIANS

Bonus 1 :: “Mercantilism” - Market buy/sell taxes 25% more favourable. No tribute cost. But resource gathering 10% less profitable.
Bonus 2 :: “Shipwright” - Ships attack increased by 25%, hitpoints increased by 33%, but speed decreased by 20%.
Bonus 3 :: All units LOS increased by 20%. Start with a Monoreme Galley for maritime exploration.

Units
Villager Citizen/Peasant :: Shaken
Villager Colonist :: Banah
Villager Merchant :: Kana’an

Infantry Militia :: Clubman > Axeman > Mappets Paraz
Infantry Spearman :: Sarepta Qaneh > Berytus Qaneh
Infantry Swordsman :: Ugarit Tsaba > Aradus Tsaba
Ranged Slinger :: Smiyra Qalla > Sidon Qalla
Ranged Skirmisher :: Akzib Ramah > Tripolis Ramah
Ranged Bowman :: Arka Chatsats > Byblos Chatsats
Cavalry Scout ::
Cavalry Spearman :: Cavalry Qaneh > Rakkab Qaneh
Cavalry Swordsman :: Thapsus Cavalry > Carthaginian Rakkab

Healer Priest :: Astarte Priest
Spy/Assassin/Diplomatic Unit :: Ragal

Siege Tower ::
Siege Ram :: Dakar

Ship Fishing :: Tyre Fishing Caphiynah
Ship Trading :: Mediterranean Trading Caphiynah
Ship Light > Ship Medium > Ship Heavy :: Monoreme Galley > Pentekonter > Bireme Galley
Ship Siege :: Ram Trireme > Ram Quadrireme

Unique Units

Unique Military/Economic Unit :: Phoenician Pentere > Punic Quinquereme
- Powerful warship with the ability to fire multiple bolts. It can also be used as a Trading Ship, giving 2x more profit than a standard one.

Heroes
Hero 1 :: Hiram I
- Ruler of Tyre during 969-936 BC. Gold mining 20% more profitable.

Hero 2 :: Pygmalion
- Ruler of Tyre during 820-774 BC. Founded Carthage and other colonies. Trading Stations generate 300 (resource) instead of 200.

Buildings
Town Centre :: Qereth Raba
Government Building
Market :: Ma’arab
House :: Bayith
Temple :: Heykal
Storehouse
Mining Camp
Granary :: Ma’abuwc
Farmland
Livestock Pen :: Naveh
Outpost Tower
Palisade Wall :: Palisade Geder
Palisade Gate :: Palisade Sha’ar
Stone Wall :: Stone Geder
Stone Wall Tower
Stone Wall Gate :: Stone Sha’ar
Emissary
Smith
Barracks
Archery Range
Stable
Siege Workshop
Naval Yard
Citadel :: Ma’owz
Academy

Wonder :: Temple of Paphos
- Slowly heals units within LOS.

Unique Buildings
Economic/Civic :: Trading Station (Requires “Trading Colonies”)
- Generates resources at a 200 per minute rate. Only one resource at a time.

Military :: Anchorage
- Trains Penteres (Unique Military Unit)
- Researches Juggernaughts (Unique Tech 4)
- Quickly repairs garrisoned ships.

Unique Technologies
Unique Tech 1 :: Trading Colonies
- Allows player to build the Trading Station unique building.
- Removes the resource gathering initial handicap.

Unique Tech 2 :: Alphabet
- Cost of all non-military units decreased by 33%.
- All Market upgrades are 20% cheaper.

Unique Tech 3 :: Purple Cloths
- Villagers hitpoints increased by 33%.

Unique Tech 4 :: Juggernaughts
- All warships fire rate increased by 50%.
- Penteres (Unique Unit) upgraded to Quinqueremes.

Long live early music.

[This message has been edited by Gato (edited 07-13-2007 @ 05:18 PM).]

posted 10-18-06 04:24 PM EDT (US)     544 / 929  
Dude.............Hannibal was Carthaginian. And I don't think you can give Carthaginian heroes to the Phoenicians.

Otherwise, good.


Go tell the Spartans, stranger passing by, that loyal to them, here we lie

Heed to Sparta, that on this hill, we lie loyal to them still

Go tell to Sparta, what you have read, that loyal to them, we lie now dead...

posted 10-18-06 04:46 PM EDT (US)     545 / 929  
Yeah, that's a problem, because Carthage was founded by Phoenicians. Take a look at this site, where they consider Hannibal to be a Phoenician leader:

http://www.phoenicia.org/hannibal.html


Long live early music.
posted 10-18-06 04:52 PM EDT (US)     546 / 929  
Nah. He was Carthaginian. Ask Mythos. Anyway, Carthage was founded by an assortment of people: Numidian nomads, Aeneas and the last Trojans, The Egyptian Queen Dido, and some Phoenician merchants.

Go tell the Spartans, stranger passing by, that loyal to them, here we lie

Heed to Sparta, that on this hill, we lie loyal to them still

Go tell to Sparta, what you have read, that loyal to them, we lie now dead...

posted 10-18-06 05:12 PM EDT (US)     547 / 929  
Hannibal = Carthage. Also, kind of weary of giving the Phoenicians yet another version of a War Elephant.
posted 10-18-06 05:15 PM EDT (US)     548 / 929  
Why?

Long live early music.
posted 10-18-06 07:57 PM EDT (US)     549 / 929  
Carthage and Phoenicia were two different civilizations. Carthage was founded by the Phoenicians, but the Punic civilization is very distinct from the Phoenicians.

Also Ba'al was a Phoenician god, not a villager.


Cosmopolitan? Check.

[This message has been edited by Yamato Take (edited 10-18-2006 @ 08:00 PM).]

posted 10-18-06 09:46 PM EDT (US)     550 / 929  
Right. Phoenicia founded Carthage, not the other way around. It would be better for Carthage to have some Phoenician influences, than for Phoenicia to have Carthaginian influences. Besides, Carthage is in the xpack. Phoenicia is to be a little older. (y)
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