[Group Project] "Age of Antiquity" - Age of Empires III Heaven Forum

Topic Subject: [Group Project] "Age of Antiquity"

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Mythos_Ruler
Skirmisher

posted 07-09-06 05:44 PM EDT (US)

Inspired by these two threads:

What do you think about a Re-make of Age of Empires 2?

AOE4: AOE1 Remake Ideas

What I'd like to do is launch a GROUP PROJECT for anyone on the forums to join. This will be a complete overhaul and remake of the first Age of Empires. Not only a remake, but an overhaul. What does that mean? Well that means we will go deeper into historical gaming than any game Ensemble has yet produced. We will update AOE1 to modern standards of gameplay as well. Each civ will be unique and fresh and most of all historically accurate.

[JPEG, (162.69 KB)]
[JPEG, (334.64 KB)]

What each project member will do is choose 3 civs from the list below to design as he or she sees fit, within the guidelines of the game as I will set up. What you will do then is research each civ to the best of your abilities, fill out the form I provide here and post it in this thread. Be careful not to be too verbose in your design because the forum seems to not like large posts. When everything is done and all civs have been profiled, I will gather everything together and make a giant new thread releasing the game design to the world.

This thread will be for strictly signing up for civilizations to profile (and then posting your results) and for discussing gameplay mechanics of the game and civs. What we want to do is stick to history and stay away from mythology and religion, except when dealing with Temples and Healers/Priests.

I fully expect this to last months, but that's not important. What's important is we all have fun making this and learn more about game design, history, and how they both fit together!

-------------------------
Okay, first, the uber LIST OF CIVILIZATIONS! Choose three from below you'd like to profile (first come first serve). *Note, please choose Vanilla civs first, then move on to the expacks (don't everyone try to gang up on the Greeks and Romans):

Vanilla: "Age of Antiquity: Dawn of Civilization"
- Assyrians :: Mythos_Ruler
- Babylonians :: Empror
- Egyptians :: Cassador_Chris
- Etruscans :: Brocktree101
- Hebrews :: Yamato Take
- Hittites :: Empror
- Kushites (Nubians) :: Empror
- Minoans :: Mythos_Ruler
- Mycenaeans :: egel
- Phoenicians :: GatoFedorento
- Scythians :: Dieneces
- Sumerians :: GatoFedorento

Chocolate: Expack1 "Empires Ascendant"
- Carthaginians :: Yamato Take
- Gauls :: egel + Brocktree
- Hellenes (Greeks) :: Dieneces
- Iberians :: GatoFedorento
- Macedonians :: Mythos_Ruler
- Numidians :: Yamato Take
- Persians :: Mythos_Ruler
- Romans:: egel
- Samnites :: Mythos_Ruler
- Seleucids :: Hosko
- Syracusans :: Empror
- Thracians :: Dieneces

Rocky Road or Strawberry: Expack2 "Empires Besieged"
- Axumites (Ethiopians) :: skystrider
- Britons :: Egel and Brocktree101
- Byzantines (Eastern Romans) :: Empror
- Dacians :: Mythos_Ruler
- Germanians :: Brocktree101
- Han (Chinese) :: MudokonGod
- Huns :: GatoFedorento
- Indians :: Lord Iarune
- Palmyrans :: GatoFedorento
- Parthians :: Empror
- Sarmatians :: egel
- Yamato (Japanese) :: Yamato Take

-------------------------
Next, choose your Civ Bonuses. Bonuses are things like, "Archers +25% HPs" or "Farming 33% more profitable." Please, stick to realistic bonuses for your civs. Make them historically accurate, and again, bonus points to those who come up with original ethnic names for your bonuses.

Bonus 1 - Economic/Civic
Bonus 2 - Military
Bonus 3 - Any

--------------------------
After that, choose the units your civ will field in battle. The research part will be this: Choose units that your civ used in REAL HISTORY. For instance, the Babylonians did *not* use a Quinquireme. However, you can give them a "bireme" class ship for gameplay purposes. The fun part will be finding the NAMES OF EACH UNIT according to the civ you are profiling. For instance, a Greek Infantry Spearman is a Hoplite (hop*lee*tay). Bonus points to those profilers who can give each unit a unique ethnic (non-anglosized) name.

Out of the 33 unit types listed here, I'd recommend your civs have no more than 30 and no less than 20:

Villager Citizen/Peasant (jack of all trades, builder and gatherer)
Villager Slave (a quick gatherer, does not build)
Villager Colonist (a quick builder, does not gather)
Villager Merchant (land trader)

Infantry Militia (every civ; very first military unit; starts as clubman in Stone Age)
Infantry Spearman
Infantry Swordsman
Ranged Slinger (very first ranged unit; starts in Tool Age)
Ranged Skirmisher
Ranged Bowman
Cavalry Scout (very first cavalry unit; can hunt; starts in Tool Age)
Cavalry Spearman
Cavalry Swordsman
Cavalry Skirmisher
Cavalry Archer

Healer Priest
Spy/Assassin/Diplomatic Unit

Siege Stone Thrower
Siege Bolt Thrower
Siege Tower
Siege Ram

Ship Fishing
Ship Trading
Ship Light -> Ship Medium
Ship Siege(rare "super" ship)

Unique Civilian Unit
Unique Military Unit 1
Unique Military Unit 2

Hero 1 (every civ has at least one hero)
Hero 2
Hero 3
Hero 4 (few civs have 4th hero)

*Note: Chariots and Elephants are usually reserved as Unique Units.
*Note: Make Unique Units truly UNIQUE, SPECIAL, and ELITE. For instance, a Hoplite isn't unique (he's just a spearman), but a SPARTIATE is an ELITE form of hoplite that would work well as a UU.

--------------------------
Next, profile the buildings for your civ. The fun part will be, again, to find out ethnic-specific names for each one. Also fun will be to come up with truly special Unique Buildings (listed at the end):

Town Center (upgradeable with different features, like in Battle for Middle Earth II)
Government Building (researches unique techs and "uber" post-Imperial techs, plus trains Unique civilian unit)
Market
House
Temple
Storehouse (gather wood, stone, and gold)
Mining Camp (generates gold like AOE3's Plantation)
Granary (gather food)
Farmland
Livestock Pen (like AOE3)
Outpost Tower
Palisade Wall
Palisade Gate
Stone Wall
Stone Wall Tower
Stone Wall Gate
Emissary (build at Mercenary camps to train mercenaries)
Smith (armory technologies)
Barracks (infantry)
Archery Range (ranged)
Stable (cavalry)
Siege Workshop (siege)
Naval Yard (ships)
Citadel (fort - build limit: 1)
Academy (trains Unique military units)

Wonder (give it a name and a unique bonus)

Unique Building Economic/Civic
Unique Building Military
Unique Building 3 (only a few civs have 3rd Unique Building)

------------------------
Lastly, choose the Unique Techs for your civ. You get one Unique Tech for each Unique Unit or Unique Building in your civ's profile. For instance, if you have 2 Unique Units and 1 Unique Building, then you get 3 Unique Techs.

Unique Tech 1
Unique Tech 2
...
Unique Tech 6 (Max number, based on max number of UUs and UBs)

-------------------

Don't worry about getting the "format" right. You don't have to do things IN THAT order. You can also easily copy/paste the lists provided above and work from there.

Alright, the floor is now open. Once someone completes his/her 3 civs, that person may then choose 3 more to complete! We have 30+ civs, so lets get going!

MYTHOS RULER
~ :: Modder of the EPIC TERRAINS MOD :: ~
~ :: Scn Designer of "Peloponnesian War" for AOM :: ~
~ :: Download Centurion_13's (ESO compatible) Hoplite Mod for AOM :: ~
~ :: 0 A.D. - a new Freeware RTS from Wildfire Games :: ~

[This message has been edited by Mythos_Ruler (edited 08-02-2007 @ 06:37 PM).]

Author

Replies:

egel
Skirmisher

posted 09-28-06 09:54 PM EDT (US) 401 / 929

Yeomen came about a bit later. Dark age sort of. Yeomen weren't called that till later you see.

Germanians could do without archers. They didn't really use them much.

As Mythos just said to me, you don't need every unit type.

Ceres 629's strategy guides

Vive la mort, vive la guerre, vive le sacre mercenaire.

0 A.D

[This message has been edited by egel (edited 09-28-2006 @ 09:56 PM).]

Brocktree101
Skirmisher

posted 09-28-06 09:58 PM EDT (US) 402 / 929

I wouldn't say that. Germans have not always relied on archers as much as skirmishers, but there were always archers. And by the way, Yeoman is an old Germanic, Gaulish, and Saxon word for a young soldier.

But don't fret, what do you think of this other authentic Germanic name: Bogenschuetze (pronounced Bo-gen-shh-vets)?

EDIT: Maybe you should give Agamemnon a trident instead of a spear and let Menelaus have the spear. Also, maybe Agamemnon should stay in the chariot and not be able to dismount but can use a special attack that makes him throw a javelin at the enemy that can kill two units. (Like Eomer from Bfme2)

Go tell the Spartans, stranger passing by, that loyal to them, here we lie

Heed to Sparta, that on this hill, we lie loyal to them still

Go tell to Sparta, what you have read, that loyal to them, we lie now dead...

[This message has been edited by Brocktree101 (edited 09-28-2006 @ 10:12 PM).]

egel
Skirmisher

posted 09-28-06 10:31 PM EDT (US) 403 / 929

Maybe. I'll think about it.

Since you never got my email, I'll tell you here.

The Carpentom should be a UU. It had a unique suspension system, and it was very different to other chariots. Also, Mythos said that stuff like chariots and elephants should be UUs.

Woad Raiders and Barabarians are also not different enough, and I think Woad Raider should be an upgrade of Barbarian.

Ceres 629's strategy guides

Vive la mort, vive la guerre, vive le sacre mercenaire.

0 A.D

[This message has been edited by egel (edited 09-28-2006 @ 10:37 PM).]

Brocktree101
Skirmisher

posted 09-28-06 10:37 PM EDT (US) 404 / 929

I think it's okay, but I'll talk to Mythos about it. And Woad Raiders were more of sentinels, while Naked Barbarians were reckless warriors

Go tell the Spartans, stranger passing by, that loyal to them, here we lie

Heed to Sparta, that on this hill, we lie loyal to them still

Go tell to Sparta, what you have read, that loyal to them, we lie now dead...

egel
Skirmisher

posted 09-28-06 10:52 PM EDT (US) 405 / 929

Brocktree, since you can't recieve my emails, can you do Gauls and let me do Britons, maybe based on what you've already got?
It would make it alot easier for you and me.

You might have to kill your post though(edit out the civ).

Ceres 629's strategy guides

Vive la mort, vive la guerre, vive le sacre mercenaire.

0 A.D

Mythos_Ruler
Skirmisher

posted 09-28-06 11:08 PM EDT (US) 406 / 929

Britons:

Banner Bearer is a Military UU since it gives your army a defense boost.

I'd combine the "Woad Raider" and "Naked Barbarian."

Need to adjust your terminology and mindset to an RTS-mode. There is no: loyalty, leadership, morale, or any of that. However, "loyalty" can mean "resistance to conversion" because priests can convert enemy units. "Leadership" can mean something like an economy or military boost. Abilites and such should be in actual effects, like, "Increases attack of allied units +15% within LOS" rather than a generic concept like "leadership." Those concepts work well in Rome:Total War, but are absent in "Age" games. Now, we may decide to add those features into our game, but we havent gotten that far yet. We should stick to normal AGE terminology and concepts in our profiles for the time being.

I am thinking we should work on gameplay next, THEN do a final draft of the civs to incorporate any new gameplay concepts or ideas.

EDIT:

Quote:

Mercenary Infantry: Borderer (Age 3) -> Elite Borderer (Age 4) Mercenary Cavalry: Carl (Age 4)

What are these? Mercenaries aren't a part of a civ. They are seperate and we haven't gotten that far yet. However, they are pretty cool, so I'd record them somewhere so we'll have them available for when we do get to mercs.

[This message has been edited by Mythos_Ruler (edited 09-28-2006 @ 11:12 PM).]

Brocktree101
Skirmisher

posted 09-29-06 07:11 AM EDT (US) 407 / 929

I'll Keep my posted civ for egel to try and "convert" it. Also Celts didn't rely on horses as much as other civs, but they relied on chariots more. I thought it would be okay to let Carpentom be a cavalry spearman and Chariot Velite to be a cavalry skirmisher.

Also, Woad Raiders and Naked Barbarians are different. Woad Raiders fought with trousers and a mail brynie with four weapons (axe, shield, bow, short sword). Naked Barbarians didn't fight with clothes, although here they need to wear a kilt or loincloth. They painted their skin with woad paint to fight to impress people and for reckless charges. Woad Raiders were basically like a mix between early Rangers and Viking Norsemen.

Go tell the Spartans, stranger passing by, that loyal to them, here we lie

Heed to Sparta, that on this hill, we lie loyal to them still

Go tell to Sparta, what you have read, that loyal to them, we lie now dead...

Gato
Skirmisher
(id: GatoFedorento)

posted 09-29-06 12:58 PM EDT (US) 408 / 929

Hey, can I take some "ideas" from the Huns of Age of Empires II?

Do you think that Huns shouldn't have houses, likewise?

Long live early music.

Mythos_Ruler
Skirmisher

posted 09-29-06 01:10 PM EDT (US) 409 / 929

Perhaps each building the Huns build gives pop.

Gato
Skirmisher
(id: GatoFedorento)

posted 09-29-06 01:14 PM EDT (US) 410 / 929

I'll think about that. But can I use Tarkan as Huns unique unit, like in the Conquerors?

Long live early music.

Brocktree101
Skirmisher

posted 09-29-06 03:32 PM EDT (US) 411 / 929

I guess that's okay.

Anyway Mythos and Egel, you guys are wasting your time, before your Bull Riders and Ithacan Hunters come close, my hordes of Xenos and Felathrians will cut you down. Then my Umbrian Equals and Bustariuses will finish you off and make away with your women and children.

Go tell the Spartans, stranger passing by, that loyal to them, here we lie

Heed to Sparta, that on this hill, we lie loyal to them still

Go tell to Sparta, what you have read, that loyal to them, we lie now dead...

egel
Skirmisher

posted 09-29-06 06:35 PM EDT (US) 412 / 929

Ta for that. I'll see what I can do to it Brocktree.

Also, the Celts used chariots extensively but hardly ever used normal cav.

EDIT: The Britons by egel and Brocktree101

Bonus 1 - All gathering from huntables +15%.
Bonus 2 - All infantry + 20% speed.

Villager Citizen/Peasant - Villager
Villager Slave - Serf
Villager Merchant - Hound Caravan

Infantry Militia - Clubman (Age 1) > Axeman (Age 2) > Two-handed Axeman (Age 3)
Infantry Spearman - Shleiyder (Age 2) > Caledonic Shleiyder (Age 3) > Brythonic Shleiyder (Age 4)
Infantry Swordsman - Cliweder (Age 3) > Caledonic Cliweder (Age 4) > Cliaranach (Age 4)

Ranged Skirmisher - Madaris (Age 2) > Heavy Madaris (Age 3) > Elite Madaris (Age 4)
Ranged Bowman - Gwent (Age 3) > Giomanach (Age 4)

Cavalry Scout - Uchelwr (Age 2)
Cavalry Swordsman - Teulu (Age 3) > Tintagel Knight (Age 4)
Cavalry Skirmisher - Cantrev Hunter > Elite Cantrev Hunter
*Chariot (subject to change) mounted javelin-thrower.

Healer Priest: Druid
Spy/Assassin/Diplomatic Unit: Tribal Representative
Siege Stone Thrower: Catapult
Siege Tower: Battle Tower
Siege Ram: Capped Ram

Ship Fishing: Curragh
Ship Trading: Birlinn
*New change (12/04/2007). Much better than "Sailor".
Ship Light: Longship (Age 2)> Elite Longship (Age 3)
Ship Siege: Drekkar

Unique Civilian Unit - Banner Bearer (Age 3)
*ALL units in LOS are more resistant to conversion, and villagers move faster.
Unique Military Unit 1 - Woad Raider (Age 3) > Elite Woad Raider (Age 4)
* Have stealth ability. Fast, high-attack infantry with an axe, but little or no armour.

Unique Military Unit 2 - Carpentom (Age 3) > Elite Carpentom (Age 4)

Hero 1 - Boudicca
*The Warrior Queen of the Iceni tribe, rides in a chariot.
She can build Oupost Towers, train Cantrev Hunters and boosts cavalry attack and health in her LOS.
Hero 2 - Lucius Artorius Castus
*Mounted, with area of effect trample damage. +15% infantry hp, melee and pierce armour in his lifetime.

Unique Tech 1 - Raiding
* Gains 5% of enemy unit cost whenever an enemy is killed.
Unique Tech 2 - Norse Conscripts
* All Mercenaries get a 30+ attack bonus.
Unique Tech 3 - Blessing of Dagda
*Druids and infantry +10% health and melee armour.
Unique Tech 4 - Hunting Birds
*Lets Druids train Hunting Falcons (max 5) as airborne scouts.

Unique Building Economic/Civic - Pool of Avalon
*Heals all units in vicinity.

Unique Building Military - Encampment
*Creates all Mercenary units. Can be packed up as a very slow weak wagon and moved around.

Wonder - Stonehenge
* +10% all Villager gathering speeds.

Town Center: Town House
Government Building: Diplomatic Center
Market: Tavern
House: Estate
Temple
Storehouse
MiningCamp:Treasury Granary
Farmland: Crop Field
Livestock Pen: Barn
Outpost Tower
Palisade Wall
Palisade Gate
Stone Wall
Stone Wall Tower
Stone Wall Gate
Smith: Smithee
Barracks: Recruit�s Camp
Archery Range: Archery Lodge
Stable
Siege Workshop: Workshop
Naval Yard: Port
Citadel: Keep
Academy: Longhouse

Ceres 629's strategy guides

Vive la mort, vive la guerre, vive le sacre mercenaire.

0 A.D

[This message has been edited by egel (edited 04-11-2007 @ 10:19 PM).]

Brocktree101
Skirmisher

posted 09-29-06 06:37 PM EDT (US) 413 / 929

Thanxs man. Also, how do you find my civs.

Go tell the Spartans, stranger passing by, that loyal to them, here we lie

Heed to Sparta, that on this hill, we lie loyal to them still

Go tell to Sparta, what you have read, that loyal to them, we lie now dead...

egel
Skirmisher

posted 09-29-06 07:02 PM EDT (US) 414 / 929

Other than "Class I" Hoplites, I like your Etruscans. They're cool. I think that you should take archers out of the Germanians altogether.

Ceres 629's strategy guides

Vive la mort, vive la guerre, vive le sacre mercenaire.

0 A.D

Brocktree101
Skirmisher

posted 09-29-06 09:16 PM EDT (US) 415 / 929

Germany, no archers? Not Gonna happen anytime soon. The Britons are NICE, but like I said before, they used Chariots alot more than average horsemen so at least find a chariot skirmisher. ANd also I'm begging you for the last time to consider the differences of a Woad Raider and Naked Barbarian.

Naked Barbarian= little armor, cheap, alot of attack

Woad Raider= increased armor, able to be hidden in the trees, toggle ability

EDIT: I found a cavalry skirmisher: Cantrev Hunter- mounted javelin thrower that was very high ranking in Welsh soceity.

Go tell the Spartans, stranger passing by, that loyal to them, here we lie

Heed to Sparta, that on this hill, we lie loyal to them still

Go tell to Sparta, what you have read, that loyal to them, we lie now dead...

[This message has been edited by Brocktree101 (edited 09-29-2006 @ 09:47 PM).]

Mythos_Ruler
Skirmisher

posted 09-29-06 10:07 PM EDT (US) 416 / 929

The Germans can have an archer, but maybe no upgrades.

Also, Gauls had good cavalry.

Brocktree101
Skirmisher

posted 09-29-06 10:49 PM EDT (US) 417 / 929

Fine only one Upgrade. Yoeman (this is the correct Germanic version) to Warder. And Mythos, I checked on the web and it said that Macedonians had Ekdromos too. Maybe you can put that for swordman. Also, maybe you should put Phillip the 5th as a hero. After all, he Alexander's heir and enemy of Rome.

Go tell the Spartans, stranger passing by, that loyal to them, here we lie

Heed to Sparta, that on this hill, we lie loyal to them still

Go tell to Sparta, what you have read, that loyal to them, we lie now dead...

[This message has been edited by Brocktree101 (edited 09-29-2006 @ 10:52 PM).]

egel
Skirmisher

posted 09-29-06 11:54 PM EDT (US) 418 / 929

I really don't think splitting Barbarian and Woad Raider is a good idea. Those who wore the woad very often wore nothing else. They were also Beserkers of a sort, as you youir slef said to me. So I don't think I'm going to change it.

Nice with the Cav. Skirmisher, I'll add them now. Way better than Chariot Velite. That was really good. Did you mean mounted as in Horseback or mounted as in Chariots?

Also Banner Bearers have an effect now. Mythos please tell me if it's ok when you read this.

Ceres 629's strategy guides

Vive la mort, vive la guerre, vive le sacre mercenaire.

0 A.D

[This message has been edited by egel (edited 09-30-2006 @ 00:03 AM).]

Mythos_Ruler
Skirmisher

posted 09-30-06 00:07 AM EDT (US) 419 / 929

Naw, man. Civs dont need to fill every unit-type.

The aim is not to create the civs with the strongest units, but rather to create civs that are balanced. Create a balanced civ, and you are uber. Create an Overpowered civ, and we shall execute you.

About the heroes, I'll stick with one Philip for now.

[This message has been edited by Mythos_Ruler (edited 09-30-2006 @ 00:12 AM).]

egel
Skirmisher

posted 09-30-06 00:11 AM EDT (US) 420 / 929

Mythos, please read my post before this one.

Also, do you think I should scrap the second 4th age Heavy Cav. upgrade for the Britons? I mean Teulu > Brythonic Teulu > Tintagel Knight?. Shall I kill one of them? (Brythonic Teulu probably)

EDIT: Brythonic Teulu scrapped to conform with techtree.

Ceres 629's strategy guides

Vive la mort, vive la guerre, vive le sacre mercenaire.

0 A.D

[This message has been edited by egel (edited 09-30-2006 @ 00:38 AM).]

Gato
Skirmisher
(id: GatoFedorento)

posted 09-30-06 05:49 AM EDT (US) 421 / 929

I need to know if Priests can convert, or if they just heal.

Long live early music.

Brocktree101
Skirmisher

posted 09-30-06 09:56 AM EDT (US) 422 / 929

Has anyone talked to me about this? Hey, it's good, but I've made a desicion. since Woad Raiders can't be their own. Excecute Barbarian Raiders, make the Woad Raiders their own UU from Woad Raiders to Elite Woad Raiders.And give them the ability to toggle axe and bow and to be hidden in trees like I first said.

Go tell the Spartans, stranger passing by, that loyal to them, here we lie

Heed to Sparta, that on this hill, we lie loyal to them still

Go tell to Sparta, what you have read, that loyal to them, we lie now dead...

Mythos_Ruler
Skirmisher

posted 09-30-06 03:48 PM EDT (US) 423 / 929

Priests convert and heal. About hiding in trees: This isn't RTW. Don't assume we have RTW features until we decide on gameplay after the 1st draft of civs are completed. Then we'll work on gameplay, then we'll go back and finalize the civs.

Don't assume we have:

Faction leaders
Retinue
Morale
any of that stuff. This is an Age of Empires game first and foremost. The first draft of civs should be age of empires -standard in features. Maybe I should have made this clear at the beginning, but I assumed everyone was on the same page.

Brocktree101
Skirmisher

posted 09-30-06 03:52 PM EDT (US) 424 / 929

Is every civ supposed to have it's own logo? Like flags in AOE 2 and 3? And what will mercs be based on? Factions or areas?

Go tell the Spartans, stranger passing by, that loyal to them, here we lie

Heed to Sparta, that on this hill, we lie loyal to them still

Go tell to Sparta, what you have read, that loyal to them, we lie now dead...

egel
Skirmisher

posted 09-30-06 04:20 PM EDT (US) 425 / 929

Will do, Brocktree. Fair enough actually about the Woad Raiders.

Mythos orginally said that mercs were area/map based.

Ceres 629's strategy guides

Vive la mort, vive la guerre, vive le sacre mercenaire.

0 A.D

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Age of Empires III Heaven » Forums » Future Robot, Bonfire, Windstorm, and NewToy Games Forum » [Group Project] "Age of Antiquity"

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